Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

Today a hurried and ran a chart comparing magnet width to height ratios. I recorded the gauss calculation at 1/4" above the magnet face for every instance. In this study I was trying to determine the best width to height ratio so we can save both money, and rotor space.

Example: Say you need to reach a certain gauss for your coil. You could use either a wide and flat magnet or a skinny and tall magnet. Which one would be better? Well if we are trying to minimize the magnet bypass time obviously the skinny magnet is what you would want. But then how tall does it have to be? That is what this information will help you decide.

For the data I picked a constant magnet width (.5 inches for one line and 1.0 inches for the second line). I then decided to start with a magnet height of 1/4th the width. I recorded the gauss for this magnet at 1/4th inch above the magnet face. I then added another fourth to the height and recorded the gauss. And again, another 1/4th of the width added to the height and recorded.

Thus the measurements go like this...
Width x Height
.5 x .125
.5 x .25
.5 x .375
etc.

I plotted the results on the chart below. The X axis represents the height of the magnet as a ratio of the magnet width. You will notice that both the .5" and the 1" magnets had a similar line. According to both of the data lines your best use of money and rotor space is achieved when your magnet height is 2 times larger than the magnet width. This should help you save money and maximize the change in flux in a given rotor size.



I did this to help me decide the most effective magnets to buy but I thought you may want to know it as well.

Edit: I used this calculator to generate these numbers.

Good work
I have been busy building a new rotor for hi speed I needed to use ring magnets and bolt them down.
. I don't like the steel bolt in the middle of the magnetic field but that's better than getting hit in the face with a magnet travailing at 120 Mph.

seem to work very happy about that

I will now build a bigger one

I calculated I need a surface speed Of 198 KMH to avoid lenz

I am building a full motor with all 9 cols and 8 magnet We will see if it can get close to COP

[Shadesz]

Good work
I have been busy building a new rotor for hi speed I needed to use ring magnets and bolt them down.
. I don't like the steel bolt in the middle of the magnetic field but that's better than getting hit in the face with a magnet travailing at 120 Mph.

seem to work very happy about that

I will now build a bigger one

I calculated I need a surface speed Of 198 KMH to avoid lenz

I am building a full motor with all 9 cols and 8 magnet We will see if it can get close to COP

Sounds like you have been busy. Good idea. 120 mph wouldn't be pretty in the face!

I'm glad it works and that you told us about it. Did you set the magnets into the edge of the rotor or just screw them onto the edge itself?

YAY! good luck with the full generator!


Oh hey thanks for linking to that speech!

[toranarod]

Sounds like you have been busy. Good idea. 120 mph wouldn't be pretty in the face!

I'm glad it works and that you told us about it. Did you set the magnets into the edge of the rotor or just screw them onto the edge itself?

YAY! good luck with the full generator!


Oh hey thanks for linking to that speech!

I will post a few photos
Its a Adams, Bedini Type motor. Rotor Dia 245 mm at 4600 RPM using 18 mm disc magnets
Hope you are well shades. your work is really moving ahead

good luck

[gyula]

My test motor speeds up under load , I used a microwave fan coil for the generator, paralleled with an ac cap, then to a FW rectifier made of 3 Schottky barrier diodes (from computer PSU`s SBL3040). Thanks Toranarod for the schottky diode info.
The speedup effect is (for me) is more dramatic with a 3uF ac cap paralleled to the coil.
input power 5v 27mA, loads the motor considerably with the coil in place and the rpm is 670 with no load, with a 4w load it increases to 1420rpm. Output is 6.1v 2.6mA

Better output power however is with a 0.94uF cap using 8v 32mA,
no load rpm 2844, 4w load = 2976rpm. Output voltage is 6.8v 6mA.

I havent put the scope on the gen coil yet but will tonight. The rpm is measured with a reed switch to parallel port so i might miss a few pulses here and there but the speedup is an audibly significant indication , PSU is a HP 6632A lab supply and output measured with HP 34401A for amps and a fluke75 for volts, so again approximation with digital meters.
The rotor is 120mm diameter fixed with 8 13x6mm rectangular magnets, dual reeds in series supply a 400t sewing bobbin coil (single strand) with a pulse, the core is a 6x30mm ferrite. simple stuff .
Cheers
Jim

Hi Jim,

Yes, try to show the voltage waveform across the gen coil, the more we see such under known parameters, the better.

Wonder if you capture the spike energy the collapsing field induces back in the drive coil when you switch it off.
A fan motor used in microwave ovens normally has a rather high value DC resistance, this can be a drawback for a gen coil, though probably good for the rotor speed up demo.

Thanks, Gyula

[elias]

Today a hurried and ran a chart comparing magnet width to height ratios. I recorded the gauss calculation at 1/4" above the magnet face for every instance. In this study I was trying to determine the best width to height ratio so we can save both money, and rotor space.

Example: Say you need to reach a certain gauss for your coil. You could use either a wide and flat magnet or a skinny and tall magnet. Which one would be better? Well if we are trying to minimize the magnet bypass time obviously the skinny magnet is what you would want. But then how tall does it have to be? That is what this information will help you decide.

For the data I picked a constant magnet width (.5 inches for one line and 1.0 inches for the second line). I then decided to start with a magnet height of 1/4th the width. I recorded the gauss for this magnet at 1/4th inch above the magnet face. I then added another fourth to the height and recorded the gauss. And again, another 1/4th of the width added to the height and recorded.

Thus the measurements go like this...
Width x Height
.5 x .125
.5 x .25
.5 x .375
etc.

I plotted the results on the chart below. The X axis represents the height of the magnet as a ratio of the magnet width. You will notice that both the .5" and the 1" magnets had a similar line. According to both of the data lines your best use of money and rotor space is achieved when your magnet height is 2 times larger than the magnet width. This should help you save money and maximize the change in flux in a given rotor size.



I did this to help me decide the most effective magnets to buy but I thought you may want to know it as well.

Edit: I used this calculator to generate these numbers.

I see the golden ratio being the peak point here. 1.618. Thanks!

[elias]

Maybe our coil geometry should match the golden ratio too. Length/Diameter = 1.618?

[MonsieurM]

Maybe our coil geometry should match the golden ratio too. Length/Diameter = 1.618?

Imagine you are walking through a forest. All around you are trees of different species, age, size and height. It looks pretty random, right? Wrong.

In research funded by the National Science Foundation, Brian Enquist of the department of ecology and evolutionary biology at the University of Arizona and his team have discovered a secret in the trees: Hidden among and within the architecture of the branches are fundamental rules that link the size, shape, age and in fact everything about a single tree to all the trees in a forest.

This rule or code reoccurs as the tree grows, creating a fractal – a repeating pattern – like a spiral of daughter branches emanating from the mother branch or tree trunk.

from: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...d-true-25.html

"Tesla matched the total weight of the primary and secondary windings so the two would be in a state of resonance."

So if I take it one step further and factor in 1/4 wave length I have:
6 awg 79.65 lbs/1000 feet
12 awg 19.8 lbs/1000 feet

If I use 12 awg for secondary at 4 times length of primary = 19.8 x 4 = 79.2 lbs
The total weight is the same and I create a 1/4 wave length effect.
All in resonance.

Comments anyone?

[kedbaker]

Dear,
Is it possible to download detailed plans for Bill Muller ?
Please reply,
kedbaker@hotmail.com

[Shadesz]

I like it. It does seem more like the golden ratio being the peak point. Now to get our magnet manufactures to listen...
Coils would be easier to control. That will make for some good testing once I get my unit built. Still scrounging up parts.

[Shadesz]

I will post a few photos
Its a Adams, Bedini Type motor. Rotor Dia 245 mm at 4600 RPM using 18 mm disc magnets
Hope you are well shades. your work is really moving ahead

good luck

Thanks. Hopefully we will achieve what the world needs.

I got those digital switch boards that you sent me. Thanks.

[toranarod]

Dear,
Is it possible to download detailed plans for Bill Muller ?
Please reply,
kedbaker@hotmail.com

do you have the Romero setup i have that in a pdf

[toranarod]

Thanks. Hopefully we will achieve what the world needs.

I got those digital switch boards that you sent me. Thanks.

that's great please give the circuit a good go, you will be very impressed.
i spent many long nights developing that controller

[toranarod]

I like it. It does seem more like the golden ratio being the peak point. Now to get our magnet manufactures to listen...
Coils would be easier to control. That will make for some good testing once I get my unit built. Still scrounging up parts.

i have only known it as the golden mean is that the same thing?
MonsieurM is that correct?

[MonsieurM]

i have only known it as the golden mean is that the same thing?
MonsieurM is that correct?

Same thing rod

Golden ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In mathematics and the arts, two quantities are in the golden ratio if the ratio of the sum of the quantities to the larger quantity is equal to the ratio of the larger quantity to the smaller one. The golden ratio is an irrational mathematical constant, approximately 1.61803398874989.[1] Other names frequently used for the golden ratio are the golden section (Latin: sectio aurea) and golden mean.[2][3][4] Other terms encountered include extreme and mean ratio,[5] medial section, divine proportion, divine section (Latin: sectio divina), golden proportion, golden cut,[6] golden number, and mean of Phidias.

[Shadesz]

I E-mailed the company that made the calculator I used above to thank them and inquire as to how they calculated the information. This was the reply that I recieved...

David,

Thanks for the compliments. We originally built the tool to solve some problems for ourselves, and quickly figured out it would be a good resource to share online. We're glad that it has proven useful in your work. Nothing instructs better than playing with something!

The Pull Force calculations are based on a huge body of experimental data we gathered. We've never found a good formula for pull force, so we built what's essential a giant lookup table. The answers it provides look through a stack of known measurements, and interpolates in between.

The actual implementation got a little more complex than that, but that's the gist of it.

By all means, we're happy to take credit for any help it gave to you. Reference away!

Best Regards,

Michael Paul
K&J Magnetics, Inc.
K&J Magnetics - Strong Neodymium Magnets, Rare Earth Magnets

Very interesting. I am grateful that they were willing to release their information to the world. Especially in such a user friendly way. I hope it brings them much business.

K&J Magnetics - Magnetic Field Calculator