How hard to make this Monothermal battery?

[FreedomFighter]

Hi.I too am interested and have some materials on hand to experiment with
and am waiting for the az31b to arrive. What is the size of Your cells? Also have You tried phosphorous instead of sulfur? If so what are the results.
Thank You.

Joe

Joe, I'm glad you asked about phosphorus. I'm home for the evening so I have time to put more thought into this post. For my last post, I was still on the clock between taking calls at my day job so I had to cut it short.

First, I will answer a previous question: I am using a 4"x4" section of AZ31B and the same of copper. I have some ideas on how to maximize material that I'll get to later.

Let me address the update I mentioned on the third cell (I'm going to use the term "cell" like you would a battery, solar panel, etc):
For my third attempt, I wanted to use Sulfur but I wanted to make a model that would survive the test of time and not destroy itself. I just finished this model in the afternoon yesterday so it is far too early to describe it in terms of longevity. One thing I noticed in the first design is that as it began to decompose it began to puff, similar to what you'd see with a lithium battery. I am not seeing any of that yet but it's something I'll be looking for, along with discoloration of the copper.
**Here's what was done**
I first coated the entire contact surface of the copper with a thin film of PVA glue, paying close attention to detail so as not to leave any of the surface exposed. I then added one more layer of PVA and let the glue cure again. *protip* A foam brush is very useful for this, as it holds the glue and can be used for application and then cleaned with water later.*/protip*
I then mixed up a batch of Cr2O3:PVA in a 2:1 mix as in previous versions, and coated the surface of the AZ31B with it, using a tool to make an even layer. Again, I paid close attention to ensure that none of the metal was exposed. Once cured, I took a fine sandpaper and buffed it out so the surface was even and flat.
The final phase was to mix up a 1:1 batch of Sulfur:PVA and use that to bond the two surfaces together. Once I had contacted the two surfaces, I sandwiched them in a clamp between to pieces of flat wood and wax paper.
So far, the device has a peak voltage of 1.2V at approximately 80 deg. F ambient temperature. I was a little disappointed, but I did find that this version can run the small motor for a few seconds before sputtering out.
When completed, this thing measures about 2mm thick.

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Phosphorus (Specifically: RED Phosphorus):
I would LOVE to use this stuff, but unless one is in possession of a chemical license, it is very difficult to acquire. Apparently some talented individuals have found ways to produce bombs and methamphetamine with red phosphorus, so big brother decided to make it a controlled chemical (they have a funny way of ruining all good things, don't they?). I am working on acquiring some for another test. I may or may not disclose my progress on that.

Some thoughts:
This device is a capacitor which naturally regenerates. The charge is stored on the metal plates unless it has somewhere else to flow. If you haven't thought of it already, try using some low voltage super capacitors to allow a place to store charge. It's a simple alternative to batteries.
A paint should be used on the surface of the copper to prevent it from being damaged by the elements.
There are other topologies which can be imagined whose benefits are maximum usage of available surface area from the individual sheets of metal, I am comparing those to the basic "plate against plate" method described in the patent imagery.
As a previous poster has stated, we must assume that Lovell left something highly significant out of the patent which could be the key to higher output. Our job is to experiment with as many different configurations of the device as possible in hopes to uncover the secret.

[Wistiti]

Thank's to share your experiments!
I will too when I receive the AZ31B and experiment with it.

[FreedomFighter]

There is something I need to share about my 2nd and 3rd version of this device which I feel could be negatively affecting its performance.
Due to AZ31B only coming in small sheets and copper coming lengthy rolls, I thought: Why not use more copper than AZ31B and completely cover both sides of AZ31B?
In my recent designs both sides of the AZ31B are covered in PVA+Cr2O3 and the copper surrounds all but a small edge. It's like a taco with the copper as the shell and the AZ31B as the ingredients, with just enough sticking out to make electrical contact.
After getting such poor results off this most recent version, I am going back to the basics of plate-on-plate and focusing on isolation of the intermediary layers from the outer layers. I'm thinking about painting both metal sheets with conductive paint, made by Bare Conductive, which can be found on SparkFun at a decent price. I would hope the paint can provide a conductive path for the "electrons" to flow through while also acting as a barrier to prevent a galvanic component from forming within the cell.

Or we could just get a bunch of Red Phosphorus and be done with all this Sulfur madness.

[charly2]

Very interesting topic indeed.
@FreedomFighter,Thank you for sharing your experiences, I will try to get all the materials for testing too.

One thing I noticed is the electronegativity of the sulfur and carbon is very similar but the electrical conductivity is different. Have you tryed
Once I get everything, I think I will test first with activated charcoal powder instead of sulfur, perhaps could help with the corrosion problem you mentioned.

[FreedomFighter]

That is a good idea. More materials need to be experimented with, and you can find some videos on YouTube of people making models with what they're calling "conductive ink" although IMO the results they are getting relative to the size of their devices are very disappointing.
Another thought that I have is: in the patent, which I have read thoroughly, Walter Lovell includes that electronegativity chart with all the individual elements. We need some sort of chart that we can include in this thread which contains the electronegativity values of different molecules, like Chromium Oxide. I did some simple averaging of the electronegativity of the atoms in a molecule to try to determine the electronegativity of the PVA and the Cr2O3 but I feel that those numbers are not valid.
If anyone has any feedback on how to determine those values, it would be greatly appreciated.

[FreedomFighter]

Does anyone have any results to post? I am currently working on some smaller 2" x 2" models...