The Lockridge triflar coil

[mbrownn]

I think with all the work being done on the Lockridge device we should also discuss the function and use of the Lockridge trifler coil.

This thread is inspired by a post on http://www.energeticforum.com/142967-post225.html

I believe the function of this coil is to create a recoverable high voltage spike that can be fed back to a capacitor across the input in a regenerative circuit. this will reduce the input required to run the motor. I wondered why it was triflar and not just biflar. It could be for the reasons given in Peters Electric Motor Secrets part II (I highly recommend this video) but there are other possibilities.

If you want to view my past Ideas I will post the links, some are just not right some could be.

Imhotep's Lab Interactive FAQ - View topic - The lockridge device
Imhotep's Lab Interactive FAQ - View topic - Was the Lockridge device the original parallel path motor?
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ath-motor.html
Imhotep's Lab Interactive FAQ - View topic - Rotary attraction motor

I have been working on the Lockridge device independently with a tiny budget and think it would be a real benefit to the third world, where I now live, if it could be made. I am both willing to share my Ideas and be corrected where I am wrong hehe. I know that there are people on this forum with abilities far in excess of mine and to you I give thanks for what I have learned

I hope to keep this thread just to the trifler coil but please share your thoughts on this and in advance.

[mbrownn]

I have run a simulation on what I believe to be the Lockridge circuit which came up with interesting results (Circuit diagram attached). It is interesting that the system requires a 12v 20w pulse from a battery to maintain the oscillations. The oscillations consist of a 47v 80w peak charge in the capacitor of much longer duration than the input pulse. The discharge of the capacitor is of 47v 40w peak and duration of double that of the charge. As the charge and discharge are curves it id difficult to calculate actual powers but the system is operating at considerably higher power that what is supplied by the battery.

If this were a motor similar to the motor Matt has produced on the http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...lindemann.html thread, I think we could be well on our way.

I Imagine that the rotor would be bifilar wound so that recovery would be easier and the configuration could be zigzag or normal.

On the operation of the commutator the secondary (Generator) windings make contact before the primary (Power) and disconnect after.

The simulator can be found here Circuit Simulator Applet

Copy and paste the text below to get the circuit.

$ 3 5.0E-4 1.7725424121461644 37 5.0 50
v 792 504 792 360 0 0 40.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
c 1016 464 1016 504 0 0.01 44.812423476357495
w 664 352 664 328 0
w 448 504 792 504 0
w 448 352 448 504 0
T 840 328 872 344 0 4.0 1.0 6.661338147750939E-16 0.0 0.999
d 792 360 840 360 1 0.805904783
d 1096 504 1096 328 1 0.805904783
w 1016 464 1016 360 0
w 872 328 1096 328 0
s 448 352 496 352 0 1 false
w 1096 504 1016 504 0
w 1016 504 792 504 0
w 1016 360 872 360 0
w 840 328 664 328 0
s 624 352 664 352 0 1 false
s 480 280 512 304 0 0 false
s 632 424 608 400 0 0 false
w 840 360 840 464 0
w 840 464 1016 464 0
T 560 336 592 368 0 4.0 1.0 2.220446049250313E-16 -2.220446049250313E-16 0.999
w 592 336 592 328 0
w 592 328 520 328 0
w 520 328 496 352 0
w 560 336 560 304 0
w 560 304 512 304 0
w 560 400 608 400 0
w 560 368 560 400 0
w 592 368 624 352 0
w 272 424 632 424 0
w 272 280 480 280 0
d 240 344 272 312 1 0.805904783
d 272 312 304 344 1 0.805904783
d 272 376 304 344 1 0.805904783
d 240 344 272 376 1 0.805904783
w 272 280 272 312 0
w 272 424 272 376 0
w 304 344 304 544 0
w 304 544 840 544 0
w 840 544 840 464 0
w 240 344 240 568 0
w 240 568 1016 568 0
w 1016 568 1016 504 0
o 1 64 1 291 559.9361855444511 9.765625E-105 0 -1
o 0 64 1 291 160.0 9.765625E-5 0 -1
o 1 64 0 35 74.82888383134222 23.945242826029514 1 -1
o 0 64 0 35 20.0 12.8 1 -1

[mbrownn]

The transformer surrounded by switches represents the motor and the other transformer is the Lockridge coil

[mbrownn]

As I understand it, the Lockridge device is a non interconnecting, star wound, universal motor with regenerative circuits, one internal to the motor and one external.

The external regenerative circuit is a trifilar coil with 2 of the windings wired like I have shown the external transformer in the circuit. So as the commutator switches on and off the rotor the pulses can be collected Bedini style from the coil as shown in the diagram.

When using a motor with magnets, the third winding may not be needed so my circuit does not include it.

The reason for this coil is because not enough of the power entering the motor can be recovered due to losses however; this same power can be put through a coil in the supply at almost no extra cost electrically. In this coil we can recover much closer to 100% of the input thus increasing the efficiency of the recovery. See John Bedini’s Tesla impulse technology and the operation of the SG energizer. Using this technique I have had good results with a Lindemann attraction motor although still nowhere near self running.

The second regenerative circuit is in the rotor, ideally this would be bifilar wound but it would also work using the next winding on the rotor as the recovery winding. This winding would also serve as the generator winding.

As we have speculated, the timing is done with the brushes on the commutator. A blank segment would be required on the commutator between each live segment. Standard large brushes serve for the recovery winding and narrow brushes for the motor winding. The motor brushes would be set at less than 180 degrees to give the desired pulse time thus negating the need for excessive speed. The exact setting would have to be set up by trial and error. The recovery brushes would have to be spaced so that at no time they contact the motor circuit

This would be the timing sequence.

As the motor rotates the large brushes are the first to make contact with the generator winding causing the coils to generate some voltage which is stored in the capacitor. Just after the generation begins, the motor brushes make contact and a pulse of DC powers the motor. There may be some transformer action between the motor and generator coil in the rotor. The motor brushes disconnect causing the inductive kickback and as the generator brushes are still in contact, the spike can be collected in the generator coil. This spike would top up the capacitor to a higher voltage than the source. The generator brushes then disconnect and the cycle repeats.

The size of the capacitor would have to be such that the stored voltage would be higher than the source. Doing this would combine high voltage from the capacitor and high amps from the power supply, making it available to the motor windings when contact is made.

[pault]

Third winding

My gut says that a thin third wire winding would produce higher voltage spikes.

I'm playing with this very concept in a Bedini machine at this moment. 24AWG for the power coil, 26 AWG for the trigger, and 31AWG for the recovery.

pt

[barbosi]

Copy and paste the text below to get the circuit.

$ 3 5.0E-4 1.7725424121461644 37 5.0 50
v 792 504 792 360 0 0 40.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
c 1016 464 1016 504 0 0.01 44.812423476357495
w 664 352 664 328 0
w 448 504 792 504 0
w 448 352 448 504 0
T 840 328 872 344 0 4.0 1.0 6.661338147750939E-16 0.0 0.999
d 792 360 840 360 1 0.805904783
d 1096 504 1096 328 1 0.805904783
w 1016 464 1016 360 0
w 872 328 1096 328 0
s 448 352 496 352 0 1 false
w 1096 504 1016 504 0
w 1016 504 792 504 0
w 1016 360 872 360 0
w 840 328 664 328 0
s 624 352 664 352 0 1 false
s 480 280 512 304 0 0 false
s 632 424 608 400 0 0 false
w 840 360 840 464 0
w 840 464 1016 464 0
T 560 336 592 368 0 4.0 1.0 2.220446049250313E-16 -2.220446049250313E-16 0.999
w 592 336 592 328 0
w 592 328 520 328 0
w 520 328 496 352 0
w 560 336 560 304 0
w 560 304 512 304 0
w 560 400 608 400 0
w 560 368 560 400 0
w 592 368 624 352 0
w 272 424 632 424 0
w 272 280 480 280 0
d 240 344 272 312 1 0.805904783
d 272 312 304 344 1 0.805904783
d 272 376 304 344 1 0.805904783
d 240 344 272 376 1 0.805904783
w 272 280 272 312 0
w 272 424 272 376 0
w 304 344 304 544 0
w 304 544 840 544 0
w 840 544 840 464 0
w 240 344 240 568 0
w 240 568 1016 568 0
w 1016 568 1016 504 0
o 1 64 1 291 559.9361855444511 9.765625E-105 0 -1
o 0 64 1 291 160.0 9.765625E-5 0 -1
o 1 64 0 35 74.82888383134222 23.945242826029514 1 -1
o 0 64 0 35 20.0 12.8 1 -1

I was not able to paste it anywhere, can you please be more specific? In "Import"? or...
It would help to understand timing along with the logic.
Thanks

[mbrownn]

Go to Circuit Simulator Applet

When the aplet opens go to file then import. Copy the text from the thread and paste into the box then click import.

I leave the switches to the second winding closed, then close the switch on the supply side. now close the switch on the return side and look at the voltage graph. when a current starts to flow from the supply open the switch. You may need to slow the simulator to make sure you switch at the right time.

You can now open the supply switch but it is not essential as no current can flow.

when the voltage peaks close the switches again and so on.

This is a simulation and has its limits but shows the principals. The simulator does not show the generated output, only the recovery from the input. If we can build a motor that does this and the generated output balances the input in a normal efficiency, the recovery we have in this circuit that is fed back to the source should give us overunity.That is we will no longer need the source battery and will be able to draw a small amount of power from the capacitor as well as run the device.

[mbrownn]

OOPs we don't draw from the capacitor we put a load in series with the capacitor.

[barbosi]

Thanks for explanations, it appears my problem is with importing in the simulator running under Linux.

I find interesting the principle you tried to simulate and I will try to study it further. It uses ingeniously different paths on working the cap's charge.

However, despite all the merit which I truly admire, there are few things I wish to bring to your attention:

1. I found within this forum someone (Bill H) pointing to the construction and service of what he believes is the device used in Lockridge setup. Here is the link: Here is the link.

2. In your simulation, which personally I find it appealing rather as a solid state device, your components are rather ideal (the coils have no ohmic resistance, the same with cap's losses, etc). With all these loses which are realistic in real circuits, the measurements will change. In fact this simulator is rather useful for didactic purposes, not permitting declaring real components but rather ideal ones.

3. The values chosen for components are a bit far from what we can find from off shelf devices: 4H for inductance in motors, 10mF (10000uF) for capacitor which will have to take close to 1000V spikes - one should expect that from those 4H inductors. But that's ok, we can add extra external inductors to meet the needs to the motor's inductance (Tesla did it ). Bottom line, it does not seems to be the case with Lokridge...

But with all that, I won't say your diagram has no merit. It has and it deserves further investigation, I'll only hope you won't drop it. As I said, is something I personally didn't see before and I wish it could be implemented as a solid state device. Simply because I don't see the mechanical motion necessary in your design.

Thanks for sharing.

PS. The original document Bill H was pointing to is: TM 9-1825a - Delco-Remy Electrical Repair Manual, WW2. I added it here just in case one finds it harder to locate it in the future. Also a note to myself . Thanks Bill.

[mbrownn]

Thanks for explanations, it appears my problem is with importing in the simulator running under Linux.

I find interesting the principle you tried to simulate and I will try to study it further. It uses ingeniously different paths on working the cap's charge.

However, despite all the merit which I truly admire, there are few things I wish to bring to your attention:

1. I found within this forum someone (Bill H) pointing to the construction and service of what he believes is the device used in Lockridge setup. Here is the link: Here is the link.

2. In your simulation, which personally I find it appealing rather as a solid state device, your components are rather ideal (the coils have no ohmic resistance, the same with cap's losses, etc). With all these loses which are realistic in real circuits, the measurements will change. In fact this simulator is rather useful for didactic purposes, not permitting declaring real components but rather ideal ones.

3. The values chosen for components are a bit far from what we can find from off shelf devices: 4H for inductance in motors, 10mF (10000uF) for capacitor which will have to take close to 1000V spikes - one should expect that from those 4H inductors. But that's ok, we can add extra external inductors to meet the needs to the motor's inductance (Tesla did it ). Bottom line, it does not seems to be the case with Lokridge...

But with all that, I won't say your diagram has no merit. It has and it deserves further investigation, I'll only hope you won't drop it. As I said, is something I personally didn't see before and I wish it could be implemented as a solid state device. Simply because I don't see the mechanical motion necessary in your design.

Thanks for sharing.

PS. The original document Bill H was pointing to is: TM 9-1825a - Delco-Remy Electrical Repair Manual, WW2. I added it here just in case one finds it harder to locate it in the future. Also a note to myself . Thanks Bill.

Thanks for your comments and encouragement, this is what I need At the moment my practical experiments are on hold due to lack of funds hehe so I have to work on theory for now. Mechanical is me field and not electrical so you will have to forgive me when I get things wrong and just point it out.

Much of the circuit I show would be applicable to a modified generator like the one in the PDF but I haven't worked out exactly how all of it works (energizing the generator side) nor do I know how to work out the actual values of the components. I agree that the simulator has its limitations and that the components do not perform exactly as real ones would. but for showing how things might work it is close enough to point us in the right direction.

The inductance of the transformers is just the standard inductance that the simulator comes up with, so it could be reduced in line with the inductance of real motors. Of course the capacitors size would be reduced accordingly.

Although the spikes are of very high voltage when not loaded, the voltage is much less when actually connected to a capacitor.

I believe that this circuit is what is required to make the motor that some others have been working on produce good results. This is a star wound DC motor that has been made to pulse but still uses magnets. Of course the primary transformer and the capacitor will have to be matched to the motor.

Once we pulse a DC motor of any kind that allows us to recover energy increasing the COP, once we can use that energy in the input, we improve the motor efficiency for the same mechanical power output. Now when that motor powers a generator and we use some of that output to top up the source, we (In theory) could be achieving our goal.

In the DC pulse motor with magnets the second winding on the rotor could also be the generator coil thus providing a self contained motor/generator.

My idea is to give Matt and the others a nudge to give this a try and post any problems they may find as I am unable to do so at the moment. I am sure that Peter Lindemann has come up with this circuit at some time or another as he has posted similar ones.

In my own experiments I have found that the matching of components to be critical to achieving good results, unfortunately due to my limitations, I have not achieved good matching. I know there are many others on this that have the capability of doing a better job of it than me so I am sharing what I can so that others can also benefit.

If you take a look at the other threads I have posted you will see the direction I am headed.

Thanks again for your input, I seem to have difficulty in getting people to respond to my Ideas

[Farmhand]

I'll respond but I don't do motors well so I try not to. I will say I think you're idea is good, I think I see what you want to do when you explain it.

Just so I can understand. Will you confirm you want to put the current through an exteral coil first to collect the BEMF from it initially ? Then will it be added to the motor coil supply in the next cycle ? If so that is a very good idea.

I attached a Screen shot of the wavefroms i got from you're sim app by opening and closing the switch's at different rate's the first group is the left switch the rest the right I think, I went a bit crazy it's kinda fun.

I'm not sure what the two dips in the upper white line are, any idea's ?

[barbosi]

My idea is to give Matt and the others a nudge to give this a try and post any problems they may find as I am unable to do so at the moment. I am sure that Peter Lindemann has come up with this circuit at some time or another as he has posted similar ones.

The problem I found in the original Lockridge thread is that many people got so involved in a winding contest, they almost forgot what the goal was.
In my opinion, modifying the DC motor was hardly necessary. Tesla accomplished the same thing with external modifications, leaving the windings of the motors in their original condition.
Examples are patents:

- 568,177 APPARATUS FOR PRODUCING OZONE - see the arrangement around the motor. This is using DC motors.
- 568,179 METHOD OF AND APPARATUS FOR PRODUCING CURRENTS OF HIGH FREQUENCY - notice the arrangement involving plates F F'. Here Tesla is using AC motors and he also tells us about the timing involved:

It will be understood that by the proper relations of insulated and conducting segments and the motor-poles the current may be interrupted twice in each complete wave at or about the points of highest potential.

Producing and harvesting spikes (transients) is a simple think, what are you doing with that voltage is a different story.

Stay focus, don't drop the ball or else you'll get in the situation from the original Lockridge thread. Once the (unnecessary) winding contest has finished, nobody has anything else to do. In absence of an idea, every one listen to hear Master's voice again.

Bottom line, I would not look for help in places where nothing was proved yet. Tesla proved his ideas and left traces to follow him.
If you have an idea you believe in, no other can help the master of idea . Instead, you may inspire others and this is why I said thanks for sharing your idea.

[mbrownn]

I'll respond but I don't do motors well so I try not to. I will say I think you're idea is good, I think I see what you want to do when you explain it.

Just so I can understand. Will you confirm you want to put the current through an exteral coil first to collect the BEMF from it initially ? Then will it be added to the motor coil supply in the next cycle ? If so that is a very good idea.

I attached a Screen shot of the wavefroms i got from you're sim app by opening and closing the switch's at different rate's the first group is the left switch the rest the right I think, I went a bit crazy it's kinda fun.

I'm not sure what the two dips in the upper white line are, any idea's ?

Yes and yes. The coils are very low impedance so that there is little voltage drop, I know that the voltage will be shared across the two power coils but the reason for this will become apparent later. As I said this is a partial circuit.

I suspect that the two dips are power drawn from the supply. On the left trace you can see the power in and out of the capacitor. Note that the power in is much bigger than the power out showing the losses at the capacitor.

From your graphs, the power out of the capacitor plus the power out of the supply represents the power consumed by the system and so when multiplied by the motor efficiency the power out of the motor. If you run it long enough you will see that there is no overunity in the power, the power in to the capacitor was 236w and the power out was 116w but of more than double the duration, no overunity. From your graphs you can see we are feeding the motor with much more power than the supply battery is giving, 36w. The extra power is just recycled energy.

So we have a supply of 36w a motor that consumes 116w and recovers 116-36w or 80w. If that motor was 35% efficient we could get 116x0.35=40.6w of power generation (the sim cannot show the power generation). Now we have overunity.

Hope my explanation is clear enough to understand.

There is a way to do this with a universal motor that is unmodified.

[mbrownn]

The problem I found in the original Lockridge thread is that many people got so involved in a winding contest, they almost forgot what the goal was.
In my opinion, modifying the DC motor was hardly necessary. Tesla accomplished the same thing with external modifications, leaving the windings of the motors in their original condition.

Yes, I believe you are right, I think we can do this with unmodified motors but is simpler with a star wound universal motor with gaps in commutator.

Examples are patents:

- 568,177 APPARATUS FOR PRODUCING OZONE - see the arrangement around the motor. This is using DC motors.
- 568,179 METHOD OF AND APPARATUS FOR PRODUCING CURRENTS OF HIGH FREQUENCY - notice the arrangement involving plates F F'. Here Tesla is using AC motors and he also tells us about the timing involved:
Quote:
It will be understood that by the proper relations of insulated and conducting segments and the motor-poles the current may be interrupted twice in each complete wave at or about the points of highest potential.
Producing and harvesting spikes (transients) is a simple think, what are you doing with that voltage is a different story.

Stay focus, don't drop the ball or else you'll get in the situation from the original Lockridge thread. Once the (unnecessary) winding contest has finished, nobody has anything else to do. In absence of an idea, every one listen to hear Master's voice again.

Bottom line, I would not look for help in places where nothing was proved yet. Tesla proved his ideas and left traces to follow him.
If you have an idea you believe in, no other can help the master of idea . Instead, you may inspire others and this is why I said thanks for sharing your idea.

This is the way once we understand what is happening, more on this later, but I don't think this was a part of the lockridge device.

Attached is a circuit for an unmodified universal motor with regeneration, I haven't got it working correctly on the sim yet so be patient.

The 100F capacitor is a charging battery.

The 100uH inductor is an unmodified universal motor.

The switch is a contact operated by the motor shaft turning.

Coil shorting can be introduce mechanically by a second contact breaker on the shaft with a multi lobe cam.

I like mechanical switching, not just because I am a mechanical guy, but because the switching is so abrupt.

[mbrownn]

I have been testing this latest circuit and the results are as follows

Materials

The measurements were taken on a cheap Chinese digital meter and an oscilloscope.

The two transformers used were 220v 144w stepping down to 12v.
The low voltage side was connected to the motor and the high voltage side to the capacitor.

The capacitor was 16v 1000uf

The power supply battery was a 12v 60Ah

The charging battery was 12v 60Ah

I used heavy duty speaker wire for all connections and the wire length was 12 inches so resistance would be very low.

The motor is of unknown value other than it is the blower motor out of a car

All diodes were 1n4007, 6 of each in parallel at each point

The switch was a contact breaker from a Suzuki carry

Motor power input when wired conventionally 96.98w when warm, more when cold, this also equals the power taken from the battery.

Motor power input when pulsed 12.57w
Power taken from the battery 12.57w

After connecting the regenerative circuit the results are as follows

Motor power input 13.51w
Power taken from the battery 11.55w
Deduced recovered energy 1.6w

It must be said that my 16v capacitor exploded due to the fact that it was being over charged and I did not have time to measure the voltage reached, so I will have to use a higher voltage capacitor. I suspect it was in excess of 30v.

Duty cycle was around 10 to 20%

Speed was unknown as the capacitor exploded before I got a reading but seemed a little higher than without the capacitor

The bang was very loud

Heart rate and blood pressure very high

Now to theory

Assuming the efficiency of the motor did not change we had an increase in power for a lower power input. I am sure mechanical the power out would still be less than the power in, but even so we have had a significant gain in efficiency.

I did not get time to take any other readings but I thought you may find this interesting. The test ran for less than a minute, Need to change my shorts now, adrenalin is brown