RomeroUK MUller prototype

[redrichie]

Greetings,
Here is my prototype based on RomeroUK's, Muller type dynamo. I did not wish to post this in a Muller replication thread as this forum already has one. because the nature of the device may be nothing at all similar to the Romero build. Once I have a device that more closely mirrors Romero's specs then I'll post in another thread.
I am aware that there are 5 magnet positions on the rotor. Romero's had 8. This is only a testing platform to get the basics down for the device. As well as be a test bed for a few ideas I've had floating around as of late. Such as drive circuits, coil shorting, and honestly just the basics before I wind 20 coils without knowing how it works. etc...
I can list all sizes of every component if people wish when there is data to present. But just the basics are:
Stator plates: 225.42mm. clear acrylic
Rotor: 145mm diameter. Made of cutting board material.
Magnets: (not installed yet) 1''x3/4'' N48 neo cylinders. Going to try to get them slightly pressed in rotor. Will cover both sides of rotor with 1/16 in lexan mounted with brass screws, for protection.
Coils: total of 6 coil pairs. sewing bobbin forms, 5 wire litzed (by hand by me) total .8mm diameter total when litzed. not many turns. 75 feet of litz wire made 6 coils.
Core: .25 in choke inductors from radioshack.
Bearings: high speed skate bearings.
Prob need to find stainless for rotor shaft. Just regular steel bolt for shaft right now. But used brass as much as possible to decrease strays.

[Slider2732]

Like it
You might want to check the post title..unless intending to throw off TPTB ?

Having one source for the progress of the machine is a great idea, in my opinion. After 164 pages on the other places thread and the many pages on this forum, things get confusing.
Seeing it all in one place for your build polarizes things

[142857]

that's pretty cool richie, looks nice.

[redrichie]

Thanks folks. Coils all wrapped will include their photos as soon as I get them positioned. 142857, sorry I missed your call. as you can see I was tied up trying my hardest to get everything measured 3 times and cut/drilled once. LOL

[Altair]

Redrichie,
for fixing magnets in place, you can slide them in with epoxy. That's the easiest way, and guaranteed to hold.

I do not think that a steel shaft will negatively affect the performance of the generator, because it is quite far from the field of the magnets, and in the center far from everything else, so do not unnecessarily spend on a non-magnetic shaft.

The important thing is to be sure that the rotor absolutely cannot wobble on the shaft...

Good luck !

P.S. Please correct the title of this thread.

[redrichie]

Altair,
This is just a test setup. Due to the terrible price for neos these days im am looking to not permanently mount these magnets into this particular disk. I have plans for a ten magnet 11 coil setup in the near future. as soon as I get the basics of a few theories down.
The title problem has been submitted. I have no idea how to change it.

[Slider2732]

Unless you were to call it the OKMU
I thought you could just edit the original post in perhaps 'Advanced' and would be able to change the title too ? Being quite fresh here i'm just saying that from other vBulletin systems. People add ' - solved' or 'video added' and whatnot that i've seen at other places.

This neo problem.
We can imagine that, with the possibility that the machines will indeed run, there will be an increase in neo prices. It's not a common type of magnet in general use in the first case, but there is already a massive abundance of them in different places !
Hard drives have 2 or 4 of approximately the correct dimensions within. Best ones are the split pairs, top and bottom of the arm that moves across the disks. Advertise on Freecycle or drop in to a PC repair place. A dead drive is traditionally thrown away and we need to start collecting them !
Here's a good site, where they explain (with pictures too) how to reuse the magnets:
http://www.reuk.co.uk/Hard-Disk-Driv...d-Turbines.htm

Every pulse motor i've built so far has used neo magnets from CD-Rom laser assemblies (2 of in each one). Again different sizes, but incredibly useful for similar smaller projects.

[redrichie]

Sorry for the typo. title corrected.

[redrichie]

Update:
Total failure!
This rotor was doomed from the start. I have learned so many things not to do with this build. Magnet spacing is way too close I believe. there is virtually a total north pole around the entire rotor. 1X.75 neos are way to powerful for this small of a rotor.
If anyone knows what is the ideal spacing for magnets of this magnitude would you please let me know.
My coils: My coils were Litzed by me. 5 strands of (now I think) way too thick wire. My resistance was in the kOhm range. Well at least thats what my Lc meter was saying. I have no reason to doubt it. The inductance for these small coils was in the micro Henry range. Even with the cores. I could not get a Bedini to trigger with these coils whatsoever. Prob a combination of coils and too strong magnets. definitely hall switching unless anyone knows the secret to trigger a bedini circuit with powerful neos. I have only ever used ceramics and small neos.
So next is smaller strand wire. more turns and bigger bobbins. Bigger rotor with larger spacing between magnets.

[Zooty]

Update:
Total failure!
This rotor was doomed from the start. I have learned so many things not to do with this build. Magnet spacing is way too close I believe. there is virtually a total north pole around the entire rotor. 1X.75 neos are way to powerful for this small of a rotor.
If anyone knows what is the ideal spacing for magnets of this magnitude would you please let me know.
My coils: My coils were Litzed by me. 5 strands of (now I think) way too thick wire. My resistance was in the kOhm range. Well at least thats what my Lc meter was saying. I have no reason to doubt it. The inductance for these small coils was in the micro Henry range. Even with the cores. I could not get a Bedini to trigger with these coils whatsoever. Prob a combination of coils and too strong magnets. definitely hall switching unless anyone knows the secret to trigger a bedini circuit with powerful neos. I have only ever used ceramics and small neos.
So next is smaller strand wire. more turns and bigger bobbins. Bigger rotor with larger spacing between magnets.

As far as neo's and a trigger winding, it should trigger much easier than with ceramic magnets. I just built a window motor with 4x1/2x1/4inch N45 neo's and it needs 500k on the base so that the power transistor does not draw too much current. Even with a 4.6ohm trigger winding i still need 20k+ on the base. I dont think neo's are the problem. Also, if you have a core, there is more current there. The only thing i can think of is that they are too close together and your not getting a switch. If they are too close, you could do a n/s/n/s and use the closeness to your advantage. Not only will your coil push on every pulse, it will attract the next magnet (after tdc only)

[Slider2732]

I do like how you're not giving up

Neo placement is trial and error, something to get a feel of, experiment with scruffy builds, just to see where you can and should place the magnets you have. You may need just 4 or may need 6 or even 8 on a rotor. Through those trials, you'll get a better idea of how much distance is required to form a 'virtual pole', the switch the Hall sensor needs. Onward from that, you'll know the size of rotor that can then go forward as the Muller machine build

One of Minoly's videos helped me to see that for pulse motor builds:
YouTube - ‪Imaginary South Using Hall‬‏

[gyula]

Hi Redrichie,

You mentioned your coil in this thread over there?
Muller Dynamo for experimentalists

and I answered it, have you seen it? You can answer it here if you wish.

Still do not get what it means your LC meter shows the coils in the kOhm range?

How many number of turns have you made from that 5 strands?

Thanks, Gyula

Update:
Total failure!
This rotor was doomed from the start. I have learned so many things not to do with this build. Magnet spacing is way too close I believe. there is virtually a total north pole around the entire rotor. 1X.75 neos are way to powerful for this small of a rotor.
If anyone knows what is the ideal spacing for magnets of this magnitude would you please let me know.
My coils: My coils were Litzed by me. 5 strands of (now I think) way too thick wire. My resistance was in the kOhm range. Well at least thats what my Lc meter was saying. I have no reason to doubt it. The inductance for these small coils was in the micro Henry range. Even with the cores. I could not get a Bedini to trigger with these coils whatsoever. Prob a combination of coils and too strong magnets. definitely hall switching unless anyone knows the secret to trigger a bedini circuit with powerful neos. I have only ever used ceramics and small neos.
So next is smaller strand wire. more turns and bigger bobbins. Bigger rotor with larger spacing between magnets.

[redrichie]

Gyula,
Thanks so much for puttin me on the right track. I did see it and forgot all about it due to missing a couple days and having to catch up on sooo much reading. Yes, I did test themeter and it acts funny withknown value 1/4 watt resistors. Like a 1.5k for example. I have a 2 k setting and a 20k setting. the 2 k setting will not read the resistor. It shows open. but the 20k reads around 1.5. so I would say that if my coils are saying 1.3k Ohm then they are prob 1.3 Ohms. Thanks

@zooty
Thanks I will try a way higher resistance. will post pass or fail

[toranarod]

Greetings,
Here is my prototype based on RomeroUK's, Muller type dynamo. I did not wish to post this in a Muller replication thread as this forum already has one. because the nature of the device may be nothing at all similar to the Romero build. Once I have a device that more closely mirrors Romero's specs then I'll post in another thread.
I am aware that there are 5 magnet positions on the rotor. Romero's had 8. This is only a testing platform to get the basics down for the device. As well as be a test bed for a few ideas I've had floating around as of late. Such as drive circuits, coil shorting, and honestly just the basics before I wind 20 coils without knowing how it works. etc...
I can list all sizes of every component if people wish when there is data to present. But just the basics are:
Stator plates: 225.42mm. clear acrylic
Rotor: 145mm diameter. Made of cutting board material.
Magnets: (not installed yet) 1''x3/4'' N48 neo cylinders. Going to try to get them slightly pressed in rotor. Will cover both sides of rotor with 1/16 in lexan mounted with brass screws, for protection.
Coils: total of 6 coil pairs. sewing bobbin forms, 5 wire litzed (by hand by me) total .8mm diameter total when litzed. not many turns. 75 feet of litz wire made 6 coils.
Core: .25 in choke inductors from radioshack.
Bearings: high speed skate bearings.
Prob need to find stainless for rotor shaft. Just regular steel bolt for shaft right now. But used brass as much as possible to decrease strays.

Nice work
keep going.

cheers