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[This thread is the extension to the Lockridge Device Peter Lindemann thread. This thread is for discussion of the Generator phase of the new device.]
I just need to think on it. The diagram helps a lot. Turion's post about induction generators helps.
Let me paraphrase what I think I see, and please comment if you think I'm in the weeds (or not).
Our mod'ed motor drives (mechanically) the flywheel and the generator rotor.
The recovery output from our mod'ed motor is rectified and smoothed, making it DC.
This DC is fed into the generator rotor winding - this aspect is different from the induction generator described by Turion (if I understood correctly, Turion's device did not apply input electricity to the the rotor nor to the stator, relying only on residual magnetization to get the ball rolling).
The high-V from the rotor is re-rectified (is this actually necessary, or will one diode be enough? 'Scope may tell.).
The low-V from the stator is rectified.
The high-V and low-V outputs are connected in series and simultaneously dumped (via switching / commutation) into a cap, which feeds back into the input of the mod'ed motor.
I'm willing to give this a go and report back (when my flywheel arrives).
My motor is different than yours - I've got the 2-pole motor and the mod is a single winding.
I guess that I have to strip another armature and wind it in the same manner as the motor (one coil across the axis of the armature), but with different (very thin) gauge.
I can even scavenge the armature and case that no longer have brushes (since I cut them out and used them as recovery brushes).
The magnets look like they're really glued in. I don't know if I'll succeed in knocking them out with the tools I've got at hand. Is it OK to substitute with a cardboard tube or something - we don't actually need the case to be metallic?
thanks
pt
Originally posted by Matthew Jones
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Your Missing what I am saying. I think??
I have 2 circuits posted. One is the complete ciciut and the other is the gen circiut.
So you have to follow me through the circiut. And remember this is pure theory at this time but SO WAS THE MOTOR at one time.
We are going to start at the 120 VDC input of power into the motor. This is important. Most ya'll going to say 120 vdc is alot of voltage. But the higher you go the less amperage you'll use. Potential is easy to make or recover amperage is not.
1. We charge the motor and it spins.
2. The coil in the motor then gets charged from passing the magnets in the motor and we relieve it of that charge into the high voltage capacitor. We also convert it back to DC before the cap.
3. Now follow the wire into the generator on Gen.Rotor input. Look at the second diagram you can see what happens. The output from the motor that we stored in the High voltage capacitor is then sent through the Generator to induce a charge onto the winding of the generator.
Now this part is critical because we are not wanting to charge the generator's coil to high voltage we want a REGAUGING at this point. We want to generate more amperage on the Generators coils then exist on the rotors coils. So the winding ratios are going to be different from rotor to stator.
ALSO we have to have the Rotors coils charged at the same time the motor fires, so any Lenz that shows up gets pushed through by direct power on the motor. Remember the motor only fires for a brief time.
4. Now the part that makes the rotor charge is the "Timed Switch". With this switch we have effectively made a Buck/Boost circuit (Look it up). This will step up the voltage we have a bit so that it is higher than the voltage we started with.
5. Now here's the magic. We mix the High voltage coming out of our rotor with amperage coming off the Stator. We do this by serializing 2 bridge's
This prevents the High voltage and High Amperage from MIXING at the source.
6. Then we charge the storage cap and route that charge back to the origin. This might require more switching I haven't thought it through because its really simple to see once the rest of it starts working.
So I hope your following me now. If not speak up and point me to the part your having trouble with.
Now lets talk about what use.
Since we already have plenty of cheap scooter motors around and they are going to line up as long as the motor case and gen case are the same type.
What we can do on the rotor is wind 4 coils in parallel and hook them 180 degrees out on the commutator. This will make our switch and our rotor coil.
Next we knock the magnets out of the case and replace them with some FLAT coils of something like 20 turns of number 12 awg.
This is the experimental part.
We may want Peter to chime in with his opinion on the subject. If he doesn't show up in a couple of days I'll remind him were here.
I know every AC generator uses a small 12 volt homopolar generator inside to produce a current on the windings to make a larger current. I am not sure if it is possible to use a higher voltage with smaller current to make lower current in a generator, but my best guess is it is possible.
So thats MY experiment number 4 if anybody wants to take it on. And if you get it built please just share what you have done to accomplish or fail for that matter.
Thanks
Matt
I have 2 circuits posted. One is the complete ciciut and the other is the gen circiut.
So you have to follow me through the circiut. And remember this is pure theory at this time but SO WAS THE MOTOR at one time.
We are going to start at the 120 VDC input of power into the motor. This is important. Most ya'll going to say 120 vdc is alot of voltage. But the higher you go the less amperage you'll use. Potential is easy to make or recover amperage is not.
1. We charge the motor and it spins.
2. The coil in the motor then gets charged from passing the magnets in the motor and we relieve it of that charge into the high voltage capacitor. We also convert it back to DC before the cap.
3. Now follow the wire into the generator on Gen.Rotor input. Look at the second diagram you can see what happens. The output from the motor that we stored in the High voltage capacitor is then sent through the Generator to induce a charge onto the winding of the generator.
Now this part is critical because we are not wanting to charge the generator's coil to high voltage we want a REGAUGING at this point. We want to generate more amperage on the Generators coils then exist on the rotors coils. So the winding ratios are going to be different from rotor to stator.
ALSO we have to have the Rotors coils charged at the same time the motor fires, so any Lenz that shows up gets pushed through by direct power on the motor. Remember the motor only fires for a brief time.
4. Now the part that makes the rotor charge is the "Timed Switch". With this switch we have effectively made a Buck/Boost circuit (Look it up). This will step up the voltage we have a bit so that it is higher than the voltage we started with.
5. Now here's the magic. We mix the High voltage coming out of our rotor with amperage coming off the Stator. We do this by serializing 2 bridge's
This prevents the High voltage and High Amperage from MIXING at the source.
6. Then we charge the storage cap and route that charge back to the origin. This might require more switching I haven't thought it through because its really simple to see once the rest of it starts working.
So I hope your following me now. If not speak up and point me to the part your having trouble with.
Now lets talk about what use.
Since we already have plenty of cheap scooter motors around and they are going to line up as long as the motor case and gen case are the same type.
What we can do on the rotor is wind 4 coils in parallel and hook them 180 degrees out on the commutator. This will make our switch and our rotor coil.
Next we knock the magnets out of the case and replace them with some FLAT coils of something like 20 turns of number 12 awg.
This is the experimental part.
We may want Peter to chime in with his opinion on the subject. If he doesn't show up in a couple of days I'll remind him were here.
I know every AC generator uses a small 12 volt homopolar generator inside to produce a current on the windings to make a larger current. I am not sure if it is possible to use a higher voltage with smaller current to make lower current in a generator, but my best guess is it is possible.
So thats MY experiment number 4 if anybody wants to take it on. And if you get it built please just share what you have done to accomplish or fail for that matter.
Thanks
Matt
Let me paraphrase what I think I see, and please comment if you think I'm in the weeds (or not).
Our mod'ed motor drives (mechanically) the flywheel and the generator rotor.
The recovery output from our mod'ed motor is rectified and smoothed, making it DC.
This DC is fed into the generator rotor winding - this aspect is different from the induction generator described by Turion (if I understood correctly, Turion's device did not apply input electricity to the the rotor nor to the stator, relying only on residual magnetization to get the ball rolling).
The high-V from the rotor is re-rectified (is this actually necessary, or will one diode be enough? 'Scope may tell.).
The low-V from the stator is rectified.
The high-V and low-V outputs are connected in series and simultaneously dumped (via switching / commutation) into a cap, which feeds back into the input of the mod'ed motor.
I'm willing to give this a go and report back (when my flywheel arrives).
My motor is different than yours - I've got the 2-pole motor and the mod is a single winding.
I guess that I have to strip another armature and wind it in the same manner as the motor (one coil across the axis of the armature), but with different (very thin) gauge.
I can even scavenge the armature and case that no longer have brushes (since I cut them out and used them as recovery brushes).
The magnets look like they're really glued in. I don't know if I'll succeed in knocking them out with the tools I've got at hand. Is it OK to substitute with a cardboard tube or something - we don't actually need the case to be metallic?
thanks
pt
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