Voltage X Amps equals Watts?

[clueless]

And Watts equals the ability to do work.
I have a question(s) that will help me out alot if somebody can help me answer them. I'm not very experienced with electrical theory and until I get to actual experiments that is not likely to change. Right now all I'm doing is reconditiong/desulfating batteries for use with my inverter.
I really want to use solar panels to keep them charged but have come to the conclusion that I will have to build the panels myself to be able to afford it.
In the meantime I am collecting tools I'll need and decluttering my limited space to make room for future experiments. Mostly I'll get what I need from pawn shops, yard sales and the like.
I have an idea to extract more power from the solar panels and I wanted to ask you guys if you think it will work. To do that I need to ask about motors.
I assume that in a motor/generator the smaller gauge wire, the higher the voltage and the faster it turns the higher the voltage. The drawback being (as I understand) with very little amps; therefore the inability to do any work. But I'm also guessing such a generator would draw very little amps either. So it wouldn't take much power to run it.
Solar cells can be connected to either add voltage or amperage.
For example you have a generator producing say 300 volts and little amperage and you have a solar panel wired to produce say 20 amps and little volts. Now you have two separate systems with a potential of 6,000 watts if you can tie together their outputs into a single system. Are there anyway to do that? I was thinking maybe 2, 1:1 transformers matched to each's input; in other words the high voltage transformer to the motor/generator and the high amp transformer to the solar and then run those outputs to a coil that would add together the voltage and amperage. That idea is just off the top of my head but does anyone here know of a way to combine two systems into one. If this will not work please tell me why.
I want to learn and short of experience which is in the future I have to rely on asking questions.
Sorry if this is a ignorant question as I am can kind of ignorant in this area but I really don't understand why this can't be done.
Thanks for you time in answering.
-RG

[Jetijs]

Hi.
Dollard said that in order to get free energy we don't need to produce it, but rather syntisize it from various components of electricity, I guess he could be talking about voltages and amperages. I agree to that as well and this idea has been in my mind for long time. I see this principle in Don Smith's device where he has two resonant systems from which one produces high amperage AC and other high voltage AC at the same frequency and phase. And he puts the outputs together via diodes and this gives him an enormous ouput of high voltage and high amperage. But tuning is critical in this setup. I doubt it would work on straight DC, you need alternating currents or DC pulses. The plasma spark setup also demonstrates something similar where using the same amount of energy you can get much bigger plasma spark than with ordinary circuits and the setup just allows low voltage high current travel along with high voltage low current spark. The analogy here would be a sand blasting gun that uses compressed air and sand to do work. These two components can be separated but would not do any work on their own, I mean you can blast air at high pressures on a rusty iron piece all day and the rust wont come off, the same with the sand alone, you can pour it on the same piece of metal with a shovel all day - nothing. But when you combine those two forces, you can do awesome thins, rust will just fly off in a blast leaving a shiny metal piece. This is a great work being done by combining those two othervise weak elements. The same with electricity, high voltage is pressure - pressurized air, high amperage is sea of electrons - the sand. Combine them and you get way much more work done that using them separately. This is not exactly volts x amps, it is rather a synisized electricity with the ability of doing way much work than with those two components alone. Its like the two component epoxy if you will, alone those components do nothing, buy mix them together and you will be stuck forever I have no doubt that this can be done, but it could be tricky
Hope this helps.

[shawnnweed]

And Watts equals the ability to do work.
I have a question(s) that will help me out alot if somebody can help me answer them. I'm not very experienced with electrical theory and until I get to actual experiments that is not likely to change. Right now all I'm doing is reconditiong/desulfating batteries for use with my inverter.
I really want to use solar panels to keep them charged but have come to the conclusion that I will have to build the panels myself to be able to afford it.
In the meantime I am collecting tools I'll need and decluttering my limited space to make room for future experiments. Mostly I'll get what I need from pawn shops, yard sales and the like.
I have an idea to extract more power from the solar panels and I wanted to ask you guys if you think it will work. To do that I need to ask about motors.
I assume that in a motor/generator the smaller gauge wire, the higher the voltage and the faster it turns the higher the voltage. The drawback being (as I understand) with very little amps; therefore the inability to do any work. But I'm also guessing such a generator would draw very little amps either. So it wouldn't take much power to run it.
Solar cells can be connected to either add voltage or amperage.
For example you have a generator producing say 300 volts and little amperage and you have a solar panel wired to produce say 20 amps and little volts. Now you have two separate systems with a potential of 6,000 watts if you can tie together their outputs into a single system. Are there anyway to do that? I was thinking maybe 2, 1:1 transformers matched to each's input; in other words the high voltage transformer to the motor/generator and the high amp transformer to the solar and then run those outputs to a coil that would add together the voltage and amperage. That idea is just off the top of my head but does anyone here know of a way to combine two systems into one. If this will not work please tell me why.
I want to learn and short of experience which is in the future I have to rely on asking questions.
Sorry if this is a ignorant question as I am can kind of ignorant in this area but I really don't understand why this can't be done.
Thanks for you time in answering.
-RG

I understand the premis of your question but the only reason that I can see that this could not be done is because of the output types. You have ac and dc current. Because almost all tools are designed to run from being plugged into an outlet they are designed to run from alternating current. Hence most if not all generators are designed to ouput ac current. Solar panels on the other hand put out direct current current much the same as a battery. You would have to invert one form of current to match the other before combining them. Since most solar panel systems are designed to charge a yacht battery directly then another device is designed to invert the 12 volt 6 amp DC current battery into 120 volts and 600ma AC current voltage then it will probably be easier to find a way to converter box from DC to AC and overall will be more beneficial. Then you could theoretically splice the wires of the two systems together. The higher voltage and current from each system will remain the dominant read when you test them but it really should be no different from adding to batteries of different voltages and amperages to equal one large output. Of course no one would suggest mixing different battery types for obvious reasons...boom. But you could mix the same types of batteries...sorry on a seperate tangent. Let me refocus. Yeah, this is doable and should be fairly simple. The only probelm that you might face is that most objects require a steady input and you will not get that from either source. Generators often spike which is why you need to have everything plugged into surge protectors and solar panels often fluxuate with the amount of sunlight, temperature, etc. However if your object has a large tolerance for input voltage as well as input amperage such as a High voltage LED then sure you could run an object from this combined source. Hope this was of some help...shawn

[Joit]

Another simple Explanation from me.
Figure 2 Containers with a Fluid. One with fast turning Fluid, the other with a huge Amount of Fluid.
You need to consider the average Wattage from each Container, to estimate how much Energy is in.
Now when you connect this 2 Containers together, the Power from each Container will equal to a average Value of Power what will remain.
Current allways flows from the higher Potential to the lower, till its equal, here, from the higher Wattage to the lower.

[clueless]

Shawnnweed and Jetjis thanks for your replies

It seems that you both agree that combining volts and amps from separate sources is at least possible. And they should be both either ac or dc. Or should they be? Both of these sources are subject to variations on their output and I doubt that you could reliably power much over time.
I was thinking that the transformers might work to smooth out the fluctations and possibly also might work to separate each circuit from its power source which somehow seems important to do. if this can be done the energy would then be stored in batteries and the batteries then used to power whatever appliances you want.
While if this works you'd still need solar panels and batteries and a motor/generator it would certainly reduce costs.
Could I test this out with a few solar cells and a hobby type generator?
Thanks again
-RG

[clueless]

Jetjis I'm a slow typer and I didn't read your reply until

I hit submit. If I understand your example correctly then in a system a fluid seeks a kind of balance. But what if you have two systems. Okay I get a picture in my head of a fast running stream emptying into a bigger body of water. That larger body of water would absorb much of the energy of that fast stream. But if I'm not mistaken where the Amazon river empties into the Atlantic ocean is several miles of fresh water. So there is some amount of influence.
Math is not my strong suit but given 300 volts X 100 miliamps = 30 watts for the generator and 40 solar cells should = 20 amps and 1/2 volt for 10 watts. Together that should equal 300 watts. 300 watts of solar power costs what? about $ 1,000 dollars for just the panel? If this works the costs should be closer to $100 dollars.
Thanks again.

Another simple Explanation from me.
Figure 2 Containers with a Fluid. One with fast turning Fluid, the other with a huge Amount of Fluid.
You need to consider the average Wattage from each Container, to estimate how much Energy is in.
Now when you connect this 2 Containers together, the Power from each Container will equal to a average Value of Power what will remain.
Current allways flows from the higher Potential to the lower, till its equal, here, from the higher Wattage to the lower.

[goldsphere]

Hi Clueless,
If both sources are to feed the inverter then they both need to be DC.
The solar panels are already DC, so you will need a buck or boost converter to change the voltage. If the generator is AC, then it is fairly simple to use a step down or step up transformer then a full bridge diode with capacitive ballast to rectify.
Watts are only used though when both the voltage and current are in phase such as in a resistor, but otherwise it will be measured in VA like all transformers. A good sign of watts occurring is heat.

Edit: Just realised what your last post said. It will be a total of 30W + 10W not 30W x 10W.
0.5 volts is not very easy to work with, you can series the panels together to get a higher voltage at lower current.

[boguslaw]

Basically you need two resonant circuits with synchronization and Lenz rule eliminated. Then on first one you are collecting amps and impulse that into second one to rise volts.In theory...

[boguslaw]

... or in first collecting volts and then on second amps...
... or transformer with Lenz rule eliminated...
... or big triode type or pentode device with secondary emission...
... or using NMR of ferromagnetic ...
... or electrostatic ...

In fact any method to strike free vibrations in resonant circuit , because lenz rule occur from forced resonance while nature works with free vibration.
Of course load has to be a part of freely vibrating circuit which is a challenge.

Do an experiment : take a ring bell from bicycle and strike while taking stiffly in hand, then repeat while having it hanging on rope.

[Joit]

I hit submit. If I understand your example correctly then in a system a fluid seeks a kind of balance. But what if you have two systems. Okay I get a picture in my head of a fast running stream emptying into a bigger body of water. That larger body of water would absorb much of the energy of that fast stream. But if I'm not mistaken where the Amazon river empties into the Atlantic ocean is several miles of fresh water. So there is some amount of influence.
Math is not my strong suit but given 300 volts X 100 miliamps = 30 watts for the generator and 40 solar cells should = 20 amps and 1/2 volt for 10 watts. Together that should equal 300 watts. 300 watts of solar power costs what? about $ 1,000 dollars for just the panel? If this works the costs should be closer to $100 dollars.
Thanks again.

Hi clueless,
I think you did want to type Joit instead Jetis, as you did quote me.
Ok, bad, when you type slow, then it is maybe a lot work for you to get your Head around this.

Ok, my Example. It is even more worse.
When you have a Generator what brings 30 Watt in at 300Volt, and you get a Solar Panel Bank, with 10 Watt,
then the Potential between this 30Watt and 10 Watt will equalize between it, it equalize allways between the Potentials, so that you may get an average from something 20 Watt.

For me, it is hard to figure now, how you wanna connect this 2 Sources.
Once, you can turn a very big wheel with that much Amperage very slow, but the High Voltage won't go out from your Generator motor. I will even claim, that your Generator will slow down, because the Force of the Amperage are way higher then the Drive Belt from your Drive.
And i think this will be in most cases, that the -Mass- of the slow moving Current will anything slow down from this 300Volt Generator or even HV source.

There are maybe sure a lot workarounds for it, but not with a standard solution, when you connect them both into on Line. The much Amperage will almost block the Voltage out.

It may would be an idea to hit a 10 Amp Flywheel with a 300 Volt Lever and take the Energy from that with another Generator, but that is only a Idea. lol.

For your Example of the Sea, figure its clean Water, then the actually Influnence is may only a faster streaming beside where the River enters the Sea, but only at a smaller sorrounding.

At Electricity play a lot more things with, because it has lesser Borders as hard Material.

[shawnnweed]

don't do it.

I really must seriously warn you against mixing ac and dc currents even through a transformer. And especially if you plan to charge a battery with it. That battery will explode if you run AC current into it even through a transfomer and even in small amounts. Batteries are very delicate objects and the explosions from something as small as a cell phone battery takes several lives each year. Don't become a statistic for a theory. You really must be careful when dealing with electricity or you will wound up D.E.A.D.

[clueless]

Sorry Joit my bad. My eyes apparently are no better

than my fingers.
If I understand, it seems that I should be looking at a generator and solar panel(s) that are better balanced between amps and volts. Instead of 300 volts and 100 miliamps maybe 100 volts and 1 amp and using a solar panel with 10 volts and 1 amp instead of 20 volts and 1/2 amp. Or something similar. You seem to be saying that combining the two electrical streams results in an average; that is the lower # will rise and the higher # will lower for an average closer to center.
I can't understand why if volts and amps are multiplied to get watts in a single system why you then add them in two systems and that is the only way you can do that.
I still don't understand why you can't take one source with high voltage and very low amps and combine it with a 2nd source which is high amps and very low volts and multiply those volts and amps to get watts.
For instance I just found this circuit:
Circuit - High Voltage Generator 12V- Hobby Circuit
that produces 12,000 volts at very low amps (5uA) but that it is capable of jumping a 3/4" gap. I don't understand why you can't combine that with a several solar cells (for instance) that has a 4-5 amps to get a voltage and amp reading that results in watts and even if it is somewhere in the middle I'd think the result would be at least several hundred watts.
Does anyone think that this circuit or one similar could be designed for a solar panel for high amps instead of high voltage.
I tried to post the circuit and I can't apparently but it is on that link earlier.
I'm just trying to understand if you can take power from one source (the mains) and a second source (the sun) combine them in such a way to get a watt gain; however small.
Rivers become rivers because smaller streams join together.
Fractuals are patterns repeated in nature and almost everyone uses water to explain electrical flow. If water uses this pattern to increase its volume and force,that is creeks joining together to form larger units then why doesn't electric current follow this fractual pattern?
I think it will under certain conditions but what those are I don't know and was hoping this line of thought would nudge a memory in somebody's mind long forgotten
And if it doesn't I 'll hold on to the thought while looking at other things; sometimes an unrelated matter will trigger that one thought that ties things together. Regardless I appreciate all the thoughtful replies.
-Clueless

[clueless]

Thanks for the warning

but my idea was using the same power type either both AC or both DC but from separate sources to multiply the effects high voltage in one and high amps in the 2nd. Don't know if it will work just mulling it over and trying to figure a way to test on a small scale.
Thanks again.
-Clueless

I really must seriously warn you against mixing ac and dc currents even through a transformer. And especially if you plan to charge a battery with it. That battery will explode if you run AC current into it even through a transfomer and even in small amounts. Batteries are very delicate objects and the explosions from something as small as a cell phone battery takes several lives each year. Don't become a statistic for a theory. You really must be careful when dealing with electricity or you will wound up D.E.A.D.

[goldsphere]

Two circuits or more can definately be added together but they must all be the same voltage. If you use high voltage connected to a low voltage system then it will fry that system.
I suggest you go back and read up on basic electronic theory, perhaps your local library will have the perfect book. The link you show has a fairly innocuos high voltage supply because of the transformer used, but the supply for this comes from the wall, and this is a highly dangerous thing if you don't know what you are doing. Please be careful.
Going with the analogy, if the current is the amount of water flowing, voltage is the pressure. If you have low pressure pipe connected to a high pressure system then they will burst.

[Jetijs]

Going with the analogy, if the current is the amount of water flowing, voltage is the pressure. If you have low pressure pipe connected to a high pressure system then they will burst.

Not if you have one way valves for both systems (diodes in electronics), if one way valves are used, the high pressure part will drag the low pressure water along with it using the venturi effect