What would happen to an Inventor who could solve the energy crises?

[Steve220]

Good point

I think Mao tried this too in China. It did not work too well.

Back to the land sounds good. Kind of like the "good old days". I remember the 50 and 60s and there was problems back then too. I think there has always been problems since day one.

One time someone told me, that the only problem with the Earth, is that there are people living on it. I tend to agree. The planet would continue on its merry way just fine if every one was suddenly gone tomorrow morning.

[Savvypro]

The cost isn't always monetary.

If you go by the true currency of free men, then karma is what you're after. Complete equilibrium with nature means you are truly free and the chains that bind you are no more. Sadly it is only a concept welcomed by very few.

I understand where your coming from, but unfortunately - today it's all mainly monetary.

Before the 'white man' came to north america, the natives had abundant fresh water and food. We just need to get back to basics and quit polluting the earth. Many modern conveniences would need to be done away with. The less work we do, the more we atrophy. We also rely more on the 'system' which has disconnected us from the ways of our forefathers who knew how to till the soil and live off the land. Back to basics is the only way out of the rabbit hole.

I see your last statement "Back to basics is the only way out of the rabbit hole." as only leading to Feudalism.

"to till the soil and live off the land" - is important knowledge to have, but if you just rely on that - your going to have problems. What about hydroponics, aeroponics and aquaponics - which in many ways produce food which is far superior to that produced in soil (and I include soil produced “organic” food in that statement). Try supporting 6 to 7 billion people, with horse and plow farming methods.

In my view the only way is forward, but forward in a way that works with nature - not against it (as is happening now). I've written about this topic in other threads and posts but to give you a simple overview - it's basically: we need to get to a point where efficiency trumps everything. Where we can run say a city of say 5 million people off of 3 car batteries (and the reason for 3 is: N+2 redundancy). Oh and so called "free energy" devices are excluded from this, the goal is to be able to do it with out "cheating" as it were, and I need to make this clear: the total available power to the who city is that contained in 3 car batteries. That's all that is available to run everything including: cars, trucks, tv's, air conditioning - you name it.

It's more than likely completely impossible, but the act of trying to get to that point would result in massive improvements in efficiencies. It’s a better goal than: What's the most amount of profit can we make and damn the consequences (which is the current model/goal).

A good example of what I’m talking about is that of Formula 1 racing, where the teams have to be ruthlessly efficient in everything to do with the cars. The restrictions imposed on them (weight limit, engine size and capacity etc.) and the goal of winning, result in the most efficient designs and constructions possible - with publicly available knowledge.

I know that there are issues with that example, but it’s the closest we have to what I’m trying to put across - that is in use. I know that a formula 1 engine would be completely useless in an everyday car, that’s not the point - it’s what it took to make the car and it’s engine - which is the key.

[Steve220]

Move ahead

Of course moving ahead is the answer. Not very many people would trade in their car for a horse and buggy no matter how much it pollutes.
Also if every car today was exchanged for a horse and buggy, talk about pollution.

As you say, it is how you move ahead that counts. One hundred years from now, (if there is still people alive on Earth)
I think they would look back to 2011 as the dark times.

Here is why. How come computers have come so far, but we are still burning things for light and heat just like a thousand years ago?
My computer, for example is being run right now mostly, on Coal and Natural gas.
Cars have come very very far since the Model T Ford, but they still burn gas like a Model T Ford.

Will the automobile be replaced with something better? Sure but not tomorrow. There are more dark days ahead before the dawn I think .

[jtanguay]

I understand where your coming from, but unfortunately - today it's all mainly monetary.



I see your last statement "Back to basics is the only way out of the rabbit hole." as only leading to Feudalism.

"to till the soil and live off the land" - is important knowledge to have, but if you just rely on that - your going to have problems. What about hydroponics, aeroponics and aquaponics - which in many ways produce food which is far superior to that produced in soil (and I include soil produced “organic” food in that statement). Try supporting 6 to 7 billion people, with horse and plow farming methods.

In my view the only way is forward, but forward in a way that works with nature - not against it (as is happening now). I've written about this topic in other threads and posts but to give you a simple overview - it's basically: we need to get to a point where efficiency trumps everything. Where we can run say a city of say 5 million people off of 3 car batteries (and the reason for 3 is: N+2 redundancy). Oh and so called "free energy" devices are excluded from this, the goal is to be able to do it with out "cheating" as it were, and I need to make this clear: the total available power to the who city is that contained in 3 car batteries. That's all that is available to run everything including: cars, trucks, tv's, air conditioning - you name it.

It's more than likely completely impossible, but the act of trying to get to that point would result in massive improvements in efficiencies. It’s a better goal than: What's the most amount of profit can we make and damn the consequences (which is the current model/goal).

A good example of what I’m talking about is that of Formula 1 racing, where the teams have to be ruthlessly efficient in everything to do with the cars. The restrictions imposed on them (weight limit, engine size and capacity etc.) and the goal of winning, result in the most efficient designs and constructions possible - with publicly available knowledge.

I know that there are issues with that example, but it’s the closest we have to what I’m trying to put across - that is in use. I know that a formula 1 engine would be completely useless in an everyday car, that’s not the point - it’s what it took to make the car and it’s engine - which is the key.

Even formula 1 racing is mostly castrated by doing what they're told. I don't see them using plasma ignition in their engines. Just overpriced over engineered engines that if the same money was spent on food, could help feed a lot of people, and for what? How do we benefit from racing?

The problem with 'money' today is that it isn't even money. It's all a fiction printed on paper, and now forms of polymer plastic. It's backed by nothing, and the ones who benefit the most from it are the ones doing absolutely no work to 'earn' it. By work I mean actual physical labour. Just going with the flow and accepting the world as it is, is to be ignorant. Put yourself in the shoes of a chinese worker doing 16 hours per day working for extremely low wages and then tell me again if you believe in the system. Unfortunately the only way to come to that conclusion is to be forced into lower 'classes' of people in the system we've been thrown into. The ones at the top can only enjoy their lives while the ones at the bottom can only detest and hate their lives. The middle ground is when each and every one of us learns to work an equal amount as everyone else and pull their weight. There will come a time when everyone will need to choose. Many are called, few are chosen. It's a very lonely road to paradise

[aljhoa]

It's all a fiction printed on paper, and now forms of polymer plastic. ...the ones who benefit the most from it are the ones doing absolutely no work ..... By work I mean actual physical labour. .... The middle ground is when each and every one of us learns to work an equal amount as everyone else and pull their weight. .... Many are called, few are chosen. It's a very lonely road to paradise

In the countless Killing Fields.
The Killing Fields - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Al

[Savvypro]

Even formula 1 racing is mostly castrated by doing what they're told. I don't see them using plasma ignition in their engines. Just overpriced over engineered engines that if the same money was spent on food, could help feed a lot of people, and for what? How do we benefit from racing?

It was an example, which was clearly stated. The point was that because of the restrictions (car total weight with driver, engine max capacity of just 1 litre [if memory serves] etc.) you have the resulting "overpriced over engineered engines" which are required to meet the restrictions and the goal of winning. If you reread the last 4 paragraphs of my last post you'll see that I use formula 1 (a real world example) to show/explain what I see as the way forward.

The problem with 'money' today is that it isn't even money. It's all a fiction printed on paper, and now forms of polymer plastic. It's backed by nothing, and the ones who benefit the most from it are the ones doing absolutely no work to 'earn' it. By work I mean actual physical labour. Just going with the flow and accepting the world as it is, is to be ignorant. Put yourself in the shoes of a chinese worker doing 16 hours per day working for extremely low wages and then tell me again if you believe in the system. Unfortunately the only way to come to that conclusion is to be forced into lower 'classes' of people in the system we've been thrown into. The ones at the top can only enjoy their lives while the ones at the bottom can only detest and hate their lives. The middle ground is when each and every one of us learns to work an equal amount as everyone else and pull their weight. There will come a time when everyone will need to choose. Many are called, few are chosen. It's a very lonely road to paradise

In a previous post, I mentioned beliefs and fiat currency. But didn't go into them as that would take this thread in a completely different direction.

For those of you just tuning in, watch the following: David Blume "Alcohol Can Be A Gas" - that video answers the OP's question and meets every criteria.

I have an issue with the following:

The middle ground is when each and every one of us learns to work an equal amount as everyone else and pull their weight.

What exactly is an equal amount, how do you compare equal amounts when someone does physical labour and someone else does mental labour. Or is this a Marxist or Communist perverted ideal definition of physical labour. And were all to only do physical labour.

I’ll use myself as an example, when I was 18 I had a summer job at the Construction company where my Uncle and Farther worked at. There was a week where I had to learn how to use a computerised steel bending machine (I was given the task, because I was good with computers), and once I was done, I had to teach the other workers how to use it.

To learn to use it, I had to actually use the thing as if I was a regular worker. Before I go on, I need to point out that my summer job was to do admin and clerical stuff in their offices. But for that week, I worked as if I was one of the steel workers. The first day I had to re-bend by hand so many of the steel rings that I couldn’t feel anything in my hands, even 2 days later (the jigs that were made to hold the finished steel rings, until use, could hold about 40 or so rings each, that day it got to the point where I completely filled all of them and just started dumping them on to the floor).

Fast forward to today, where you have someone who has worked as a systems administrator - supporting over 10,000 users (actually near double that) and the systems they used as well as supporting other IT departments. Single handily supporting 40 networks covering over 11 buildings. I currently run the administration side of my Uncles company (I'm a glorified accountant) and just for the heck of it I’m also building an all in one CRM, EPM, backoffice software that trumps anything available - for use in the company. My last statement isn't some wishful thinking over hyped BS, that's prevalent among developers and vendors who self aggrandise their work, products and services. That statement is based on just the 1,000+ lines of code that I have written so far (had to stop for the last couple of weeks because of my algae project) and when I implement the rest of my design plans as code - it will be an understatement.

How do you define an equal amount for someone like me, who’s single goal as a sys admin is to not do any work - this is not a freeloading statement, but one where if I do everything correctly. The only time I do work, is when I’m putting out fires as it were or setting up new systems or checking things (even then I could automate the checking of logs and such, but one needs to give the impression that they actually do something for their pay) - for all the other 7 or so hours in the day - I should be board stiff out of my mind. The mark of an ubber sys admin, where everything runs like a well oiled machine for years without problems.

[ltseung888]

Giving the knowledge away

When the Inventor is willing to give the knowledge away, the scenario changes.

This is happening with the romerouk muller dynamo, the Prof. Steven Jones Joule Thief variant and others.

The theory is actually very simple. Multiple LCR resonance circuits can lead-out or bring-in the electron motion energy of the orbiting electrons (dipoles).

There is no point in discrediting the inventor. The proof of concept prototypes cost less than US$10 and any Country, University, organization or dedicated individual can develop it.

[Shadesz]

It was an example, which was clearly stated. The point was that because of the restrictions (car total weight with driver, engine max capacity of just 1 litre [if memory serves] etc.) you have the resulting "overpriced over engineered engines" which are required to meet the restrictions and the goal of winning. If you reread the last 4 paragraphs of my last post you'll see that I use formula 1 (a real world example) to show/explain what I see as the way forward.




In a previous post, I mentioned beliefs and fiat currency. But didn't go into them as that would take this thread in a completely different direction.

For those of you just tuning in, watch the following: David Blume "Alcohol Can Be A Gas" - that video answers the OP's question and meets every criteria.

I have an issue with the following:


What exactly is an equal amount, how do you compare equal amounts when someone does physical labour and someone else does mental labour. Or is this a Marxist or Communist perverted ideal definition of physical labour. And were all to only do physical labour.

I’ll use myself as an example, when I was 18 I had a summer job at the Construction company where my Uncle and Farther worked at. There was a week where I had to learn how to use a computerised steel bending machine (I was given the task, because I was good with computers), and once I was done, I had to teach the other workers how to use it.

To learn to use it, I had to actually use the thing as if I was a regular worker. Before I go on, I need to point out that my summer job was to do admin and clerical stuff in their offices. But for that week, I worked as if I was one of the steel workers. The first day I had to re-bend by hand so many of the steel rings that I couldn’t feel anything in my hands, even 2 days later (the jigs that were made to hold the finished steel rings, until use, could hold about 40 or so rings each, that day it got to the point where I completely filled all of them and just started dumping them on to the floor).

Fast forward to today, where you have someone who has worked as a systems administrator - supporting over 10,000 users (actually near double that) and the systems they used as well as supporting other IT departments. Single handily supporting 40 networks covering over 11 buildings. I currently run the administration side of my Uncles company (I'm a glorified accountant) and just for the heck of it I’m also building an all in one CRM, EPM, backoffice software that trumps anything available - for use in the company. My last statement isn't some wishful thinking over hyped BS, that's prevalent among developers and vendors who self aggrandise their work, products and services. That statement is based on just the 1,000+ lines of code that I have written so far (had to stop for the last couple of weeks because of my algae project) and when I implement the rest of my design plans as code - it will be an understatement.

How do you define an equal amount for someone like me, who’s single goal as a sys admin is to not do any work - this is not a freeloading statement, but one where if I do everything correctly. The only time I do work, is when I’m putting out fires as it were or setting up new systems or checking things (even then I could automate the checking of logs and such, but one needs to give the impression that they actually do something for their pay) - for all the other 7 or so hours in the day - I should be board stiff out of my mind. The mark of an ubber sys admin, where everything runs like a well oiled machine for years without problems.

Watching the video now, well listening.

I agree with your question though. While currently a laborer myself in my full time job, I know and understand that there is a necessity for different types of people, and professions. In a full time position I have been the laborer, the computer support, the manager, and the innovator, and can tell you each role is needed.

We need the dreamy innovator to develop more and better ways of doing things, we need those that can take the idea or product and develop a market for it, we need the rich investor to back the ideas and businesses of the first two people, we need people in the trenches that make the wheels turn and grunt to produce the actual product, we need managers willing to 'sit around' working to support those that are in the trenches, we need other people who sit at a computer and make sure the computer system that coordinates the production process is up and running like it should be, we need other people sitting at a computer making sure that everyone already listed gets paid, we need other people willing to grow the market, we need people willing to sit ata computer and phone and bill/collect money so the business has money to produce, etc, etc.

If it doesn't seem fair to you it may not be (depending on your location and circumstances) but I am a firm believer that in the USA you truly do have any chance to switch your professional role.

How this applies to the OP,
Having an "inventor" that comes up with a silver bullet wont lead to anything unless that inventor also has the skills or partners with the necessary skills to develop the rest of the parts required to bring the product to society/market.

If you are thinking of developing a product and bringing it to society for free you are living in a dream world. Even if you do find a cheap way to produce energy it will never be without production cost. Generators, regardless of the type, take money to manufacture.

Now if this inventor does actually come up with a good idea/product, but doesn't have the skills to bring it to the world, or partners with the skills, he is asking for the product to be stolen by those that do have teams with yhose skills. If he protects the product (via a patent) and can't bring it to the world because of lack of skills the idea will die. It wont be because some oil company bought it and hid it, it will be because he was too selfish and unskilled to bring the idea to market or let others bring it to market.

To those who believe that oil companies suppress energy I have to disagree. Oil companies don't exist like they used to. They have grown into energy companies, not oil companies. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Shadesz]

Just finished the video. While others may not agree, I feel it reinforces the idea that the energy problem isn't caused by lack of ideas and processes to create cheaper energy, it is caused by a lack of ability to do so.

Great video btw, I will be buying stuff from his website I am sure.

[aljhoa]

the energy problem isn't caused by lack of ideas and processes to create cheaper energy, it is caused by a lack of ability to do so.

Planned economies create crises, would there be energy problem in the free market economy?
Al

[Shadesz]

Planned economies create crises, would there be energy problem in the free market economy?
Al

Expand please?

[aljhoa]

Expand please?

Planned economy is an economic system in which the state directs the economy.
Planned economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A free market is a market in which economic intervention and regulation by the state is limited to tax collection, and enforcement of private ownership and contracts.
Free market - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Planned economies create crises, would there be energy problem in the free market economy?

Al

[Savvypro]

Planned economy is an economic system in which the state directs the economy.
Planned economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A free market is a market in which economic intervention and regulation by the state is limited to tax collection, and enforcement of private ownership and contracts.
Free market - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Planned economies create crises, would there be energy problem in the free market economy?

Al

That free market definition is a joke. The only free market on the planet, is the black market - everything else isn't free.

Politicians talk about free markets, but when their so called free markets mess up, they complain about how capitalism is bad - what bull.

A truly free market is one in which a country meets all of it supply and demand from within, while trading the excess. For example: if there is demand for new LED flat screens, then everything needed to supply that demand is sourced and supplied from within that country. Every bit of raw material to make all the electronic components, to the wood to make the cardboard packaging etc.

This free market idea gets labelled as protectionism, but is it a bad thing - if every country was that independent. I know that in reality there would be countries which don’t have the resources to be able to be that independent, but as with all economic theories, their theories and not based on reality. Because if they were, they would actually take into account the 1 in 25 who a psychopaths, as well as the the control freaks who want to impose their version of what is best for everyone on everyone and do it with force (laws being written etc.).

But to answer the question:

Planned economies create crises, would there be energy problem in the free market economy?

Based on the Wikipedia free market definition of what a free market is, which I'll quote below so there is no confusion of what I'm talking about:

A free market is a market in which economic intervention and regulation by the state is limited to tax collection, and enforcement of private ownership and contracts.

You have two version of that reality:
The first is that everyone is an angle and there wouldn't be a energy problem.

The second, which is based on reality (where angles are few and far between and almost non exsistent in goverment), would result in a problem over time as taxation can be increased, or extended, supply of energy can be artificially restricted.

As long as the goal is to centralise everything (which is the opposite of nature, where everything is decentralised and distributed). Then there will always be energy problems.


Back to the original point of this thread, below are more examples of suppression:

YouTube - ‪Who killed the electric car?(not the batteries)‬‏

Take a look at the following http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...n-battery.html thread. The overview, batteries developed by Edison at the turn of the last century, they last almost as long as a person and were intended for use in electric vehicles. There is a picture of Edison standing by his entry into a 1,000 mile endurance race - now think about that for a bit.

[aljhoa]

The only free market on the planet, is the black market - everything else isn't free.

WikiLeaks cables: Russian government 'using mafia for its dirty work'

Russia and its intelligence agencies are using mafia bosses to carry out criminal operations such as arms trafficking, according to allegations contained in the US embassy cables released by WikiLeaks.
WikiLeaks cables: Russian government 'using mafia for its dirty work' | World news | The Guardian

PUBLIC PROTECTION OR PRIVATE EXTORTION?

We analyze the strategic interaction between a firm, an extortionary
mafia, and a potentially corrupt government. The model identifies several
results. First, government spending is not monotonic in revenues.
Second, although the firm wants the government to challenge the mafia
(it uses the threat of electoral sanctions to induce the government to do
so), in equilibrium, the firm does not directly appeal to the government
for protection even though it is extorted.
http://home.uchicago.edu/~bdm/PDF/mafia.pdf

Al

[Shadesz]

It appears you don't believe we live in a free market (more or less)?

I'm just not seeing this USA economy being a planned economy, especially per your wiki definition.

Share more please, but please not more of those conspiracy theory articles. Share more from your own observations...

I'm kinda disappointed, I was excited to find a forum that talked about real solutions for renewable energy, so far it appears that it is mostly filled with conspiracy theorists and undereducated free energy enthusiasts...