Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter "Replications"

[Farmhand]

Hi dR, I'll try to give my opinions to you're questions mainly, and try to explain
some observations. I'm in the process now of putting together some coils to
work from a spark gap, it'll take me a while but when I get setup i'll be in a
better position to contribute to the spark gap method discussion.

Quote:
Have you tried it without the earth connection on the secondary ? And if so what happened ?

The secondary of the flyback?

The secondary of the transmitter, the end that joins to the other coil.
I found with my LV setup that when the secondary is ground connected the
transmitter works better as a regular Tesla coil but the currents to the other
coil are reduced to almost nothing. This is different with the pot because
compared to the Earth the pot is very small. To get good transfer using the
ground or connected to the ground a frequency below 35 Khz is recommended
by Tesla. In my spark gap test video I connected both coils to ground, but
they are very close, close enough for other types of transfer to occur, but if I
just connect both coils together (remove ground connection) or to a pot the
transfer is much better, by lots. Unless you can resonate the planet the
actual Earth connection will just make the transmitter work better for
producing voltage at the top terminal.

Nah second storm fizzed out but they are still around.

Adding the diode to the HV output halves the voltage because it is a half
wave rectifier. The spark through the spark gap must be in only one direction
not AC.

Quote:
Can you try some 4000 volt capacitors charged from the receiver and
discharged through a light bulb ?

In parallel with the mirroring capacitors (350pF)?

What's that gap in the wire in Fig. 126 supposed to be?

The gap in the wire transformer side of the cap is just missing ink.

I would rectify the output after the AC resonance cap, on the output coil go's
a FWBR the DC charges the HV caps and the caps discharge through the
spark gap and load. It could be done by the output sine wave exceeding the
breakdown of the spark gap while charging a very small cap and discharging it
each cycle but that's not how I would do it.

The way I'm using the transformer to pulse the ignition coil relieves the stress
and heat on the transistors, I found my ignition coil with a .1 uf cap across it
likes to be pulsed at 1.4 Khz and 2.8 Khz for the best output to input ratio.

My transformer outputs a AC pulse, stepped up in voltage 1:3 so I only need
use 12 volts to drive it to get 60 volts output.

What I'll be doing is setting up a base config, to establish a reference point to
experiment from, like I did with the low voltage setup. The connection to the
receiver will be just a wire "not" connected to ground. Then when I have it
tuned and get a good output I can start to experiment.

I think the best way is to simplify the entire setup to run a load from the
receiver output coil as the only objective, a light is good so then it burns all
the time and any reduction or increase in output can be seen.

I would go to a straight wire connection between the coils and separate the
winding's (turn spacing), because on the receiver even though there is no
arcing it would be affecting the coil, I think if the turns are spaced then the
space needs to be uniform throughout.

Without some way to adjust the capacitance of the receiver output coil,
getting a good output will be very difficult.

Gotta run. Off to town.

Cheers.

[Farmhand]

Hey dR, I think I've got this receiver output thing worked out. I think we need
to only half wave rectify the output just like the input. It might be better to
rectify it one way than the other too. then the half wave rectified output can
charge a cap and discharge through a load. I'll try it soon. The cap and the
gap will need to be balanced and the load could be a step down transformer.

I made this video to show the difference between connected to actual ground
and just the coils connected. If i had a better terminal on the transmitter it
would have worked better still, the sparks from the receiver were more than
the transmitter. and the neon went from a bit of orange to bright orange
with a purple ball inside it.

Transfer.wmv - YouTube

You can see that the out put of the receiver of a HF setup is better just
using a wire and not connecting to actual ground, I think this is because
when connected to ground the current is punched into the ground "kinda" and
wasted unless low frequency like the Earth, the vibration is restricted to a
small area and shallow.

However if just the wire is used the current is "pushed" directly through the
other coil and produces an output, the whole setup becomes resonant without
having to resonate with the earth. The problem is the current at the bottom
of the coils is a bit hot, but not like the top haha. The pot can help that a bit
maybe.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Hi dR, this video shows the cap spark gap discharge through a neon, the caps
are charged from the receiver output coil. The video is deceiving because of
the shutter speed and the quickness of the discharges, lot of discharges and
flashes don't show up on film, this can be seen by the way sometimes the
spark can be heard but not seen on the camera, it's a very quick discharge.
There is a purple/white plasma ball dancing around inside the neon.

Disruptive discharge - YouTube

The sparks from the coil itself are not too uncomfortable but the discharges
from the primary cap and the cap on the receiver are a bit zappy.

If the coils were better matched and the receiver discharge spark gap a good
adjustable one, then a uniform output could be had.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

OK here is another reference to Tesla stating the frequencies compatible with ground transmission.

Source Link



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[Kokomoj0]

I thought the beard was real I guess it worked well

I forgot to ask, was that thunder in the background? I noticed the dark spot too. It didn't seem to go away either when you put your hands closer which was strange.



Strange again Sounds similar to my issue where the only bulb I could light was the 240v 15w. 12v 5w wouldn't work at all, but I have managed to light it a bit on the receiver since. Haven't done anything with it recently or tried any others. (I could do something with a 40w with 2 coils in series or parallel but I'll cover that sometime later).

I've also noticed that I don't get plasma from the coil output, but there is plasma after it's gone through the bulb, so it seems to be having some effect on it.

Anyway it's gone 9am and doing this circuit diagram took longer than I expected so I'll reply to the rest tomorrow, and I'll just post the updates for now...

I've been starting to suspect that a better output (lighting the bulb) is more closely related to the input voltage than the current, seeing as I've been using nearly 2 amps 12v on average, and barely being able to light a 62mA 240v bulb. This seems to be confirmed so far. I've adjusted the 555 circuit so now I'm running the 555 off a separate supply to the transistors. 7v for the 555, and I've increased the transistors/flyback voltage to 28v.

For the same light output as before, at 12v 1.8A input, I can now get the same output at 28v 900mA. 1.5-1.8A gives a relatively nice output.

This video shows it as best I can, and around the middle the only light in the room is coming from that. Except the PC monitor but I doubt this webcam is that sensitive The main purpose of it was to show how the receiver output is better when I put my hand near it. And I tried with the fluoro but it didn't come out too well. I should have used the 4w maybe because it's smaller and I'd be closer to the terminal, so better to see how the LED brightness is increased, fluoro is lit, and the incandescent in series before the pot of soil isn't affected by getting a better output.

This is the exact circuit diagram of what makes up device "G". [edit] I don't know if those diodes are of any use since using the rectifier, but it works so why not



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imkrgy76dLs

I hope y'all like Deep Purple

Nice pics btw

This video contains content from WMG, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
Sorry about tha

[dR-Green]

This video contains content from WMG, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
Sorry about tha

Thanks for letting me know Kokomoj0. I have uploaded the same video again without the sound

Nikola Tesla - System Of Transmission Of Electrical Energy (Small Scale Replication With No Sound) - YouTube

[Farmhand]

Hi all, I was reading the Tesla Energy transmission Patents again and the
patents say nothing about the primary being a 1/4 wavelength of the secondary,
The Patents say the secondary (or the thin wire coils) needs to be approximately
1/4 of the wave length of the electrical disturbance in the circuit which has
nothing to do with the primary coil itself. However, the primary is used to
make the electrical disturbance so it must be made resonant at the desired
frequency to produce the oscillations to do that, I think. This can be done
with a different amount of primary turns and it's resonant frequency
determined by a capacitor.

From Magnifying Transmitter patent #1 119 732


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From patent #649621


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Continued from #649621


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And also from the Magnifier patent.#1 119 732
The primary can be excited in any desirable manner, which can be a
condenser or an alternator.


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[lamare]

Hi guys,

You may want to check out this thread, especially this post:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post165521

Posted this on the jk_wireless Yahoo group:

Yahoo! Groups

I have been theorizing on how to build a system for the transmission of longitudinal waves, after I found this article wherein a succesfull practical proof of concept is described:
http://bit.ly/sKQUok

Since it was reported by Dollard that the propagation speed of longitudinal waves is a factor pi/2 (1.57) larger than the propagation speed of transversal waves, I figured a demonstration of longitudinal moon bouncing would be THE final chapter for Einstein's relativity nonsense, so I started a thread at the EF to see how far we can come with that:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...e-history.html

Most important conclusion so far is that your sphere has to have an n * 1/4 lambda radius in order for it to resonate like a dipole antenna, since with a n * 1/4 lambda radius, you basically have an infinite array of 1/2 wave dipoles....

Now if you want to calculate the wavelength for the frequency you are designing your transmitter for, you can simply calculate the corresponding transversal frequency by dividing your longitudinal frequency by pi/2 (1.57). I calculated that for the values reported in the paper:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post165383

"They used a frequency of 433.59 MHz, with an equivalent EM frequency of 276 MHz. When we feed that in a wavelength calculator ( Frequency Wavelength Calculator ), we get a wavelength of about 1.1 m or 1/4 lambda of 27 cm, while they used a sphere with a radius of 30 mm, which would be about 10% more than 1/4 lambda."

And apparantly that works pretty well. Interesting detail is that they feed their sphere from the centre, where you have a current node, just as what you have with a normal 1/4 lambda dipole, so you can drive it with a normal transmitter. (oops, that should have been: "a normal 1/2 lambda dipole" or "a normal 1/4 lambda wire antenna")

If you drive it from the outside, you drive it at a voltage node, which means you drive it with high voltage, low current. Dollard used capacitive coupling in his longitudinal experiment, so that is probaly the way to go if you want to feed your sphere at a point at the outside. It may be a good idea to use a trimmer cap between your coil and your sphere, so you can tune the whole setup.

I realize this gets a bit confusing. What should it be now, n * 1/2 lambda or n * 1/4 lambda??

All right. Now the outside of your sphere is per definition a voltage node. You get these every 1/2 lambda.

If you want to drive your sphere from a normal transmitter, which is designed to feed a normal dipole or 1/4 lambda antenna at a current node, you need to feed your sphere from the centre and it needs to have a radius of n * 1/4 lambda in order to get your current node at the centre in order to keep your transmitter happy.

If you want to drive your sphere from a transmitter capable of driving a dipole at a voltage node (basically: high voltage, low current), you can either use a sphere with a radius of n * 1/4 lamda and drive it from the outside, or you can take a sphere with a radius of n * 1/2 lambda and drive it from the centre.

At this moment it still has to be determined how to drive an antenna at a voltage node exactly.

Eric Dollard's experiments suggests that capacitive coupling to a normal transmitter may work. A transmitter like Tesla's TMT probably also works very well, because it's coil is in a self-resonance mode and normally you use the already "open" side of the coil to drive your sphere. So, if you match the size of your sphere to the oscillation frequency of your TMT when oscillating without any capacitive load at the top, you're probably O.K.

[Farmhand]

Hi all, I've got my mini pair running albeit a bit slowly but wow, it's radical for the input.

Mini Tesla Transmitter.wmv - YouTube

I've noticed a few things, for one normal wire when placed on the ground arcs
through the insulation and drains a lot of the energy sent to the receiver. I
show this in the video by using a light bulb touched to a join in the
connecting wire, which shows arcs inside the bulb. It seems to be very difficult
to contain the energy to a wire. I'll try the coax, of course this means coax
will improve the performance of the low voltage arrangement a bit too. The
wire I was using for connecting the two was double insulated, but still no good.

However I am happy with the terminals they seem to be able to contain this
level of energy no problem, I show that by putting a small metal sphere far
enough from the terminal to cause some leaking from the small sphere and see
no leakage from the terminal itself, but there is obviously a fair potential
there.

When I get my hand too close to the transmitter the hair on my legs stands
on end. Strange sensation for sure.

Spark gaps are fun, the combined observations from both low and high
voltage setups should be good for learning.

Here's a piccy of the small HV transformers, the left one needs a better terminal.


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Cheers

[dR-Green]

Hi all, I was reading the Tesla Energy transmission Patents again and the
patents say nothing about the primary being a 1/4 wavelength of the secondary,
The Patents say the secondary (or the thin wire coils) needs to be approximately
1/4 of the wave length of the electrical disturbance in the circuit which has
nothing to do with the primary coil itself. However, the primary is used to
make the electrical disturbance so it must be made resonant at the desired
frequency to produce the oscillations to do that, I think. This can be done
with a different amount of primary turns and it's resonant frequency
determined by a capacitor.

Ahoy. So how would we figure this out? The thin wire coil should also be an odd number multiplication in length of the primary. So isn't the only way to really do this is to transmit into the earth for the reasons you suggested before? IE once it's tuned to the earth, or the earth being a part of the circuit, then any more "circuitry" in the way of receiver load is unlikely to affect the tuning.

I'm confused now though. What exactly is the "circuit"?

That aside, if the secondary should be 1/4 wavelength, then the primary should be 1/3, 1/5, 1/7, 1/9 etc the length of the secondary. Does the primary also count as the "circuit", or does that only refer to the load?

I could be completely wrong here but this is how I think it "should" be done at the moment...

Make a HV coil for a power supply, designed for pulsing at a desired frequency. Secondary of this coil should be 1/4 wavelength of the MT primary and caps. Primary of HV coil should be secondary length divisible by an odd number.

This must be built according to the intended pulsing frequency of the HV coil. The caps charged by this coil should discharge instantly with no excess energy in the "HV supply" system, IE the energy should flow smoothly, not being held up or delayed at any point. Hence the need for deliberately tuned HV coil, one for efficiency of pulsing it, and also for efficiency of output.

When all components are tuned this way, the peaks of the waves will always be at the correct point, in the same way that the highest potential should be at terminals D, and the energy should flow smoothly through the whole system with minimal resistance/loss.

So the MT needs to be built according to the "circuit", and the HV supply coil needs to be built according to the MT. Or the intended frequency for pulsing, but it might be simpler to build the MT according to the intended output circuit or whatever.

It seems to be very difficult
to contain the energy to a wire. I'll try the coax, of course this means coax
will improve the performance of the low voltage arrangement a bit too. The
wire I was using for connecting the two was double insulated, but still no good.

Apparently litzed wire might help due to the skin effect thing, but I think I read this on wikipedia in relation to power supply lines not these kinds of voltages and frequencies. Or maybe it could be a simple matter of surface area in the same way that the terminals can hold the charge. But then would you get a reduced output

When I get my hand too close to the transmitter the hair on my legs stands
on end. Strange sensation for sure.

Spark gaps are fun, the combined observations from both low and high
voltage setups should be good for learning.

Sounds like fun I have yet to try a LV setup besides the SEC type things. I'm learning a lot about terminal capacitance and primary capacitance etc with the mini coils I made though. 1.5cm arcs reduce to 3mm simply through putting the toilet float terminal on. And unlike the bigger helical coil, without any terminal, higher primary capacitance gives a reduced output voltage. So this is pretty good for learning the obvious differences in effects by changing things.

Also while I remember, can anyone recommend any good power mosfets to use? I'd like to use them instead of the transistors if they'll use less power.

[Farmhand]

Hi dR, The Tesla patent is describing how to calculate the wire length for a
particular frequency, none of that is really important if no particular frequency
is desired. The important thing is that the maximum potential coincides with
the terminal, as stated in the patent. The online Tesla coil calculators work
that out for us and tell us the frequency. The primary resonant frequency
should match the secondary resonant frequency and for the most output the
primary should be pulsed at the resonant frequency. The length of the primary
is not so important as it having the correct LC ratio for resonance at the
same frequency as the secondary circuit.

We won't be able to tune our circuits to the Earth. The capacitance of a near
object to the terminal affecting the secondary's resonant frequency is
different to adding a load the the receiver output coil and changing the
resonant frequency of the receiver output coil.

If the primary resonant frequency matches the secondary resonant frequency
the transformer can be pulsed at any lower frequency and the primary will
oscillate at the resonant frequency and so will the secondary, but for most
output the primary should be pulsed at the resonant frequency. For power
saving less than the resonant frequency.

If the primary is 1/4 wave length of the secondary then it's resonant
frequency without caps would be higher than the secondary and need caps anyway.

Tesla states in that patent that the main thing is that the maximum potential
coincides with the terminal, as long as that is done it doesn't really matter
how it's achieved. Eric says the primary should be one turn only, how can
that be 1/4 length of the secondary ?

I intend to build a HV coil that can be pulsed at up to 250Khz so I can pulse it
at 1/3 or 1/4 or 1/5 the frequency of the transformer to feed the primary
caps, then the spark gap should fire at 1/3, 1/4 or 1/5 the frequency of the
transformer, but the primary should oscillate at the resonant frequency of the
secondary because of the LC ratio of the primary.

If Telsa made his secondary 50 miles in length as he states in the patent then
his primary would be 12.5 miles long if it were 1/4 the length of the
secondary. and would have quite a few turns in it lowering the terminal voltage.

We may have to agree to disagree on some things and compare results.
Because I'm no expert for sure I could be wrong, however the
low voltage setup can be scoped and and the results can be seen.

My method is to decide how much primary capacitance I want to use roughly
and make the primary enough turns so that using the desired capacitance or
close to it will give the resonant frequency. Weight matching the primary to
1/4 would seem to be a very good idea like you did.

I think we are on the same page almost. And the result is the main thing, it
can be done different ways as Tesla states in the patent.

With the adding caps to the primary, if you add too much the primary res
frequency can go under the secondary res frequency and by adding a small
amount you might stay well over the secondary res frequency but hit a
harmonic so get good effect, but not full.

The primary resonating at the same frequency as the secondary is an odd multiple, being 1.

If the secondary is grounded there could be no break out from wire but this is
not possible and the same as trying to transmit through the ground. So High
voltage High frequency ground wire transmissions will not be possible in my
opinion with any practicality because of the breakouts. Low voltage can be. If
the secondary is not grounded in a high voltage setup breakouts occur from
the secondary to the primary, maybe grounding the secondary to the primary
negative might help that, grounding the secondary to earth does help it but
then no transmission.

Much more experimenting to do yet.

I use IRF740 mosfets. They seem better than 840's.

If you measure the inductance of the primary and secondary coils then
estimate the terminal capacitance the res frequency can be calculated
roughly, then the amount of capacitance for the primary to achieve the same
frequency can be determined.

Using this- L/C Resonance Calculator

Or you could just use this, this one tells you the primary capacitance you will
need. My terminals are about 10 pF if yours are similar surface area they are
probably about the same. The toroid capacitance needs to be input to this
calculator.
OLTC Calculator

The wider the spark gap the higher the primary input voltage.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

dR, I'm gonna do some serious study on the primary charging circuit then setup
the bigger lower frequency coils and pulse them solid state to try to make sure I
have it correct. I'll get scope shots and take notes, it might take 24 hours to do
and I might need to wind some new charging inductors. With my low voltage
setup I can change out the charging inductors the primary caps and even the
primary coils quite easily, I've got three sets of primaries 10, 15 and 17 turns.

DC Tesla Coil design

Cheers

P.S. dR I think I may have overlooked a small point with the primary charging
circuit I'll explain later when I confirm it or not. If this turns out to be what
I'm thinking I'll have you to thank for helping me see it.

Ok tinker time

..

[Kokomoj0]

farm,

just a few thoughts on the TMT for setup.

The length of the thin wire coil in each transformer (coil “A” tower) should be approximately one-quarter of the wave length of the electric disturbance (frequency) in the circuit, this estimate being based on the velocity of propagation of the disturbance through the coil itself and the circuit with which it is designed to be used. By way of illustration, if the rate at which the current traverses the circuit including the coil be one hundred and eighty-five thousand miles per second then a frequency of nine hundred and twenty-five per second would maintain nine hundred and twenty-five stationary waves in a circuit one hundred and eighty-five thousand miles long and each wave would be two hundred miles in length.

For such a low frequency, which would be resorted to only when it is indispensable for the operation of motors of the ordinary kind under the conditions above assumed, I would use a secondary of fifty miles in length. By such an adjustment or proportioning of the length of wire in the secondary coil or coils the points of highest potential are made to coincide with the elevated terminals D D', and it should be understood that whatever length be given to the wires this requirement should be complied with in order to obtain the best results.

It will be readily understood that when the above-prescribed relations exist the best conditions for resonance between the transmitting and receiving circuits are attained, and owing to the fact that the points of highest potential in the coils or conductors A A' are coincident with the elevated terminals the maximum flow of current will take place in the two coils, and this, further, necessarily implies that the capacity and inductance in each of the circuits have such values as to secure the most perfect condition of synchronism with the impressed oscillations.

I noticed that his patent shows the tower coils wound reverse of each other interestingly.

it seems to me that you should be able to connect some kind of load to the secondary and a wire between the primaries to simulate the ground with a few ohms of resistance maybe to tune them both up if yo uhave not already done so.

Then I would think you could also measure the res freq with and without the top hat to get a near exact measurement of the capacity, and replace that with a capacity between the 2 of them for a low v tune-up.

Maybe include LC tuning caps and coils on the receiver to field tweak.

Just a couple thoughts I had after reading the patent and comparing it to meyls work.

[Farmhand]

Thanks Kokomo and dR, I think I have it sorted now, all I needed to do was
leave the caps across the primary for the resonance on the transmitter and
use a different much bigger cap for the resonant charging circuit, i'll make
some drawings after dinner, I'm getting good results with LV now I've made
the change. I can even use the harmonics but full excitement still works best


When I short a 200 v 220 uf electro cap charged at the receiver output I get
30 v almost instantly when I unshort it, and if I don't put enough pressure on
the screwdriver I get a constant stream of sparks looks good. The input
drops when I do that but always is a sine wave from the transmitter. The cap
will eventually charge to over 80 volts, input is 12.3v the cap charges to
about 30 volts almost instantaneous with very little input, which is about the
voltage in the primary charging capacitor, and more than double the input
voltage. So I can exploit that I can do well I think.

Hehe if I connect to ground with the transmitter for fun I can tune it for
plasma streams like it used to do. Frequency is about 440 Khz.

Pics and video clip soon.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Kokomo the Magnifying Transmitter patent has only one tower in the drawing.

ELECTRICAL ENERGY - Google Patents

And if you flip a spiral coil over it is then opposite wound.

Here's the wave form 30 cm from the Toroid terminal 10x probe 10 vpd and no
vertical gain hanging in free air. Looks like a good sine wave to me.


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Cap charged at receiver to 96 volts @ 470 uf, it can hit 70 volts pretty quick from a short. And it's tuned tame.


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I can't upload video's till after 1 am Bandwidth restrictions.

Here's the circuit if the C1 cap is sized right for the L1 then it can get a bit
more than double the supply voltage in it.


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Cheers