Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter "Replications"

[7imix]

I'm not lamare but I thought I would answer these questions from my own intuitive understanding and experiments.

Hi lamare, I was wondering since you are an Electrical Engineer could you tell me the result if two large Tesla Magnifying Transmitters were built as a pair, transmitter-receiver and for some crazy reason they were built only say 100 miles from each other and they worked as described by you in you're last post, then for some other crazy reason the earth connections were disconnected and a very large diameter conductive cable was was connected between the earth connections ?

They would have to be retuned to the new reactance of the wire, but they would still work.

Would they work in that configuration to transmit energy to each other when re-tuned ?

Yup

And what would be the nature of that energy ?

Electrical sound waves along the ground wire, tuned so that the reflections were in phase with the transmission, inducing a resonant oscillation in the receiver, causing a magnetic field to flip at the resonant frequency in the vicinity of the receiver thus allowing alternating current to be drawn off at the receiver.

And would the cable between the earth connections act as a waveguide ?

Yup

Would this be considered a single conductor transmission or a two conductor transmission ?

Single

Going back to when it is connected actually through the earth is it not a single conductor transmission ?

Yup

Or is it a double conductor transmission ?

There's no circuit, only the earth connection, so single

Does a Magnifying Transmitter transmitt AC power ?

Not really, although it induces ac in the receivers. It transmits impulse currents, not alternating currents, into the ground.

I thought both conductors were "Hot" with AC power.

What do you mean by both, the transmitter secondary and the receiver primary?

Tesla says Electromagnetic wave's can be got from his system and he was talking about a Magnifying Transmitter, he conceived it , he invented it and he built it, he said these words below in a Court I believe under Oath. I won't waste my time responding to any more of this talk. It is pure conjecture as far as I can tell. I can't stop people from posting but I just will not respond.

From my perpective you, lamare, and tesla are saying the same thing. Communications breakdown somehow, but the same fundamental thing.

[Farmhand]

What do you mean by both, the transmitter secondary and the receiver primary?

From my perpective you, lamare, and tesla are saying the same thing. Communications breakdown somehow, but the same fundamental thing.

Hi 7, anyone will do if they can answer the questions so I can understand it.
I mean both wire's going to and from a regular AC appliance are hot alternately aren't they ? Compared to each other that is ? The same as the top terminal and the bottom one on one of these coils, because the ground conection can zap you too.

Induces , transmitts, whatever without the transmitter the AC at the receiver it wouldn't happen.

So I see then maybe I did missunderstand his post, you guy's need to remember that some of us are working with a bit less formal knowledge so things are easily missunderstood and confused, I do understand that go's both ways too, I'm certain that there are things i say are often very missunderstood and taken as meaning something entirely other than what I intended to convey. It happens to me all the time and it is very frustrating.



P.S. I mean't the top terminal and the bottom terminal sorry, I forgot to add that.

[7imix]

In other words: no longitudinal/scalar waves here, just one wire energy transmission.

there ARE longitudinal waves, but not in the air. In the earth conductor. This can be tested by checking the transmission speed over long distances. It should work out to be pi/2 * the speed of light, according to dollard.

[Farmhand]

It would seem to me that the term "conductor" should replace the term "wire" in these discussions. It might be easier understood then.

[Farmhand]

Hi guys , got some piccies, The pipe work might not make sense from an electrical veiwpoint but if it was done just bit neater it would look a bit arty.

This is how the setup finished at the transmitter.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=32a91...1304&sc=photos

This is the receiver now,
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=32a91...1305&sc=photos

This is powering just the LED's with a analogue meter showing the DC voltage accross the bridge.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=32a91...1303&sc=photos

This is powering the CD rom motor and the LED's the voltage dropped to about 6 volts.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=32a91...1301&sc=photos

This is powering tthe two LED's from the output coil again but with a fluro lit by standing one end on the connecting conductor. You can just see the bottom of the fluro, the volts is steady at about 13v there.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=32a91...1302&sc=photos

Very short video soon.

It seems as though with all the messing about I got the coils all so close varying anything except frequency PW or the top terminal capacitance is not beneficial.

Next thing is to make some smooth terminals so they can be adjusted.

Was a fun night but a long one.

I shot some tuning video but no sooner was it shot than it was obsolete.

Cheers

[lamare]

there ARE longitudinal waves, but not in the air. In the earth conductor. This can be tested by checking the transmission speed over long distances. It should work out to be pi/2 * the speed of light, according to dollard.

Just found an interesting paper the other day:

This is also very interesting. It describes the propagation of a certain kind of waves along the surface of a conductor, which appears to come very close to the kinds of waves traveling along the "ground" wire between transmitter and receiver in a Tesla Wireless system:

http://www.corridor.biz/FullArticle.pdf

Abstract
An overlooked solution to the MaxwellHeaviside equations supports the existence of a propagating TM surface wave on coaxial cable as well as on a completely unshielded single conductor [lamare: such as the Earth in Tesla's Wireless Transmission system.]. This nonradiating surface wave mode exhibits attenuation much lower than coax and a relative propagation velocity of unity. It is very broadband and has practical applications from RF through microwave frequencies and beyond. This article introduces this mode, measurements and describes applications. In particular, this article describes the use of the new mode with conventional overhead power lines as a 3rd pipe and solution to the last mile problem.


[...]

Summary
This article has described a previously unknown propagating TM surface wave mode which exists on a single unshielded conductor. Practical transmission lines utilizing this mode were not previously known to be possible. Descriptions of the associated fields and launchers useful for converting between this mode and conventional transmission lines have been provided and the broadband and lowloss nature of this mode has been illustrated through measurements of simple, practical systems. Some applications of this mode, including the use of the existing worldwide grid of overhead power lines for high rate lastmile information transport have been detailed.
In particular, this discovery allows very inexpensive implementation of wide area information services utilizing the preexisting worldwide power distribution grid. Simple and inexpensive hardware can be installed on a single conductor of these ubiquitous lines and used to create a high capacity “3rd Pipe” for information distribution. The location and rightsofway of these existing power systems allow them to be used simultaneously to provide 3G and 4G user access while they also provides backhaul and other pointpoint information transport. Of particular value, this system can easily be applied for use in SmartGrid energy systems . The reuse of existing lines, rightsofway and maintenance systems allow all of these information services to be deployed and operated at a small fraction of the cost of any other method.

So, the longitudinal waves are actually just outside (and just inside the "skin"?) the surface of a "real" conductor in the case of Tesla's one-wire system. In the case of using the earth as a conductor, you are talking about a much more complicated situation. For some more insight see: Tesla's Big Mistake?

So, longitudinal waves exist and can propagate trough the air, at least in the vicinity of a conductor. IMHO that means that it must be possible to create longitudinal waves and actually propagate them trough the air also, but you have to do that some other way.

[lamare]

Hi 7, anyone will do if they can answer the questions so I can understand it.

[..]
So I see then maybe I did missunderstand his post, you guy's need to remember that some of us are working with a bit less formal knowledge so things are easily missunderstood and confused, I do understand that go's both ways too, I'm certain that there are things i say are often very missunderstood and taken as meaning something entirely other than what I intended to convey. It happens to me all the time and it is very frustrating.

Please do realize that this stuff is very complicated, because there are pieces of the puzzle along with huge pieces of errors and disinformation all over the place. I am happy to answer any questions and will try to explain things as far as I understand them later, but I don't have the time now. Please remind me if I forget.

It is a bit like this analogy: everyone is using gasoline fuel to burn in their engines and Tesla said: I have a diesel engine and the way it works surely shows you cannot build an engine working on liguid gasoline. The theories that are around describe how everyone thinks their engines work on liquid gasoline, while if you look very closely they actually run on gasified gasoline. So Tesla was right, you can't run your engine on liqified gasoline, but everyone does pour liqified gasoline in their tanks, so Tesla must be wrong, right?

Update: to give you an idea about the complexity of the phenomena we are trying to understand, watch these video's I posted the other day:

YouTube - ‪Cymatics - Bringing Matter To Life With Sound (Part 1 of 3)‬‏
YouTube - ‪Cymatics - Bringing Matter To Life With Sound (Part 2 of 3)‬‏
YouTube - ‪Cymatics - Bringing Matter To Life With Sound (Part 3 of 3)‬‏

These show the variety and complexity of waveforms created by sound vibrations. These are basically a blown up version of what happens in the ether when you use electric vibration. The problem with the electric stuff is that you can't see it, so it is very hard to figure out what is going on, especially since main stream science still hasn't figured out the connection between electricity, magnetism and gravity, while they are actually just different aspects of one and the same phenomenon: waves/motion in/trough the ether, as I explained in the post quoted.

[Farmhand]

Hi Lamare, I accept it can be complicated, but I don't think it is that complicated to visualise the concept without words. To put words to everything to explain it and quantify everything with measurements and numbers is extremely complicated of course.

I also admitt it is unavoidable and must be understood by some of the more educated people, that is for sure for things to advance for alternative means of doing things there must be explanations. I can only give my opinions and then only with words at the moment and the words are probably poorly chosen because of a lack off familiararity with them.

Please don't take offence.

A rifle has rifling in the barrell to rotate the projectile on it's axis for stability, I don't need to do any calculations to know that if the rifling twists too much and rotates the projectile more than necessary energy is wasted and the rifle is worn more than necessary, because over a certain point a faster rotation imparted will take away from the velocity of the projectile. In fact too much twist could be dangerous to the integredy of the firearm. And only so much twist will be benificial.

It just seems to be obvious to me. If you think about it.

To expand further on that fictional example, I don't have to have a degree in physics to understand ballistics or to build an effective firearm and understand how to use it to make my life easier, I have no need for the complex math that could be applied to the construction of said firearm, I can learn about trajetories from throwing rocks and spears, this is true in a similar way with many things.

I commend everybody for thier contributions to all our persuits.

Having said all that, I don't make any real claims to have any complete understanding of anything, but I think I get the general concept.

And if you gave me a million dollars I reckon I could have two big one's built in about 6 months, after I get a couple of people to do the calculations I would need done. I would give you a call first lamare because I think I could trust you.

But seriously surely it wouldn't cost all that much, maybe a mill or less.

Anyway here's a video for a smile .

Don't be alarmed by the rooster at the end of the video it's my ringtone not a convulsing bird. Haha
YouTube - ‪Load test CD rom motor.‬‏

Cheers

[lamare]

I also admitt it is unavoidable and must be understood by some of the more educated people, that is for sure for things to advance for alternative means of doing things there must be explanations. I can only give my opinions and then only with words at the moment and the words are probably poorly chosen because of a lack off familiararity with them.

Please don't take offence.

I didn't take any offence. If I don't like someone's post, I usually just ignore it.

What I meant to say is that it is that hard to vizualize for myself what is actually going on, because we can't see it and main stream science also has no idea what is actually taking place, that I can't answer in simple words quickly.

Fortunately, we can vizualize what is going on by creating similar vibrations using water and sound, which is why I referred to these sound video's. However, until someone does, you have to try to vizualize for yourself what is going on first, and then try to explain it.

From the sound stuff in the video's you can only find vizualizations of what kind of patterns can occur, but somehow you have to figure out which picture matches best with what we are doing. And that takes time.

Still, the sound video's are very good to at least get a picture of what is going on, even though the wires and/or the earth are actually examples of such kinds of complex wave patterns themselves. So we are dealing with not just one vibration pattern caused by a vibrator in a fluid, we are dealing with a vibrator which internal vibrations interact with the vibrations in the fluid. So, we have wave patterns interacting with wave patterns, so to speak, which means we are dealing in essence with interwoven wave patterns.

Now in most cases, you can talk about a wire as being a bullet in a rifle and such, but in these cases, you are entering the world where a wire is not a solid thing anymore in terms of how it interacts with the ether. It is kind of like a sponge/fluid-like thing under water that vibrates.

So, it is really demanding to figure out, but slowly but steadily we will get there.

[Farmhand]

Again I wasn't actually trying to compare a rifle or a bullet to a wire.

I was using the example only to explain that things can be understood to a degree without being too complicated.

I will watch the video's though, I like video's, I'm also very interested in the analogue version of Tesla's. I haven't actually seen that yet.

[Iotayodi]

This is new to me lamare. Watching the videos my first thoughts were Teslas antenna and bi filar pancake coil. Thanks!

[Farmhand]

Oh WOW, watch from about 5:14 to 5:29 in the first cymatics video and look at the middle of the swirly thing near the bottom it has a face in it. Thats what it looks like to me. Thats wild. and cool.

[Farmhand]

2nd receiver

I grabbed this freaky coil I wound up to try it for a receiver and it seems to work when I was soldering the FWBR to it it shocked me. If I connect a Voltmeter to the output coil "primary" and don't connect any other wire's I can hold it up to the terminals of the transmitter and receiver and get a good voltage reading. Hilarious.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=32a91...1306&sc=photos

[7imix]

Just found an interesting paper the other day:







So, the longitudinal waves are actually just outside (and just inside the "skin"?) the surface of a "real" conductor in the case of Tesla's ono-wire system. In the case of using the earth as a conductor, you are talking about a much more complicated situation. For some more insight see: Tesla's Big Mistake?

So, longitudinal waves exist and can propagate trough the air, at least in the vicinity of a conductor. IMHO that means that it must be possible to create longitudinal waves and actually propagate them trough the air also, but you have to do that some other way.

Those are two great papers, thank you very much. The explanations match the mental model I was already using. I think they are right on.

You know, what you said about longitudinal waves existing in the depths of a homogenous medium and transverse waves existing at the boundaries of media like solid and air or liquid and air really helped me to understand what is happening where.

Hmm, I wonder if propagating longitudinal waves through the conductor and in to the air has to do with turning the area around the transmitter into a plasma? Would the double layer of charge separation around the transmitter make the entire region inside into a homogenous medium, even though it contains solid and air components?

I visualize a plasma sphere or bubble around the transmitter which is oscillating as a whole. The entire bubble wobbles radially outwards and then back inwards at the resonant frequency and the size of the plasma bubble is determined by the distance the energy can travel at this frequency before turning around.

[Farmhand]

G'day all, Things he are getting a bit stranger than normal, I just connected an actual ground connection to the connecting conductor and a few different things happened.

First thing i noticed is the LED's on the receiver dimed and the fluro went out then immediately all the Lights on the receiver began pulsing slowly about once a second except for one LED which stayed on brightly lit, "the two LED's are slightly different" one is salvaged the other bought.

Second thing was I turned around and noticed the sinewave on the scope was a fair bit bigger than when not connected. Maybe another division more up and down the scope is set to 100v per division just hanging in free air though, I expected the opposite.

Third thing was the input current went up about 50 Ma and pulsated in sync with the lights.

How bizzarre, I wasn't trying to get disco lights, I guess now I have to video that too. I'll have to do it later.

So at the time I was messing with the second receiver, I've come to the conclusion that if I can reduce it's resonant frequency to the same as the others I can get power from it, or even if I raise or lower it's frequency to a harmonic of the the receiver or something it should work better.

P.S. I just realised that the pulsating was caused by the ground putting the system slightly out of tune, a small adjustment to the primary capacitance of the transmitter and the pulsating has stopped and the scope is now showing a 400 volt sine wave nice and steady but for some reason the voltage at the receiver is slightly less, well it's now 9 volts where it was 13 volts, I can only surmise that the ground has made the receiver's frequency also drop so it will need to be adjusted too.

I've left what I wrote above so I don't have to write it again to explain what happened .

The pulsating must have been from the cap filling and allowing the terminal voltage to increase as it did, then when the terminal voltage reached a certain level the fluro and second LED quickly and suddenly used the cap power which quickly dragged the terminal voltage dow again and so on. Or I should say the second LED used the cap power and th fluro just helped to lower the terminal voltage quickly.

Cool.