Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter "Replications"

[dR-Green]

Thanks for those images Farmhand. I'm not really sure how that all connects together though to drain the base. But I realised last night how your method as opposed to the spark gap might be used in the same way John Hutchison was using his coils, because as far as I can remember he was using frequency generators and what not.

Things are starting to get weird with the spark gap though. I was streaming some BBC iplayer video, whenever I activate the circuit the stream stops. Something also happened to the SSG's power supply, in that it shut itself down and I had to reset it by turning it off and back on, there are no wired connections between the Tesla experiments and the SSG.

Also the neon across the emitter and collector appears to have some use. It sometimes flashes when I turn the circuit on for the first time so there's HV coming back through in a similar way to an SSG needing a protective neon.

And the last thing was I wanted to compare the output before the spark gap, and from the Tesla coil output, but I started getting tingling in my fingers while holding the glass on the other end of the 30cm fluorescent while testing BEFORE the spark gap, so I think I'll put on some gloves before I continue further It's getting more interesting and scary at the same time

As far as output goes so far, the shorter the spark gap/the higher the frequency, the brighter the fluorescent, but the shorter the streamers. There's a lot of things going on for me to be paying attention to and a lot of variables in its operation, plus I don't think the meter is quite telling the truth, so I can't really start to say about the input. It's generally in the 1-3A range though and sometimes more, currently on 12v.

Nice videos btw, I think that small fluorescent is the same one I was using earlier. It sounds like there's something loose rolling about inside yours too, I thought I'd broken it Good stuff

Also let me know if/when you want more details on the spiral coils construction. I haven't measured the outer diameter of the secondary yet, and I'm still getting to grips with the circuit and all that so there's still some testing and modifications to be done, so I intend to see which is the better way to make the coil come to an end. And once I get an idea of how it all works and get something stable going I'll also be testing whether or not wood up close affects it. So it's still open to updates if anyone's planning on building a couple, you can use the info provided so far or there'll be updates coming at some point

[dR-Green]

Dr-green: if you can find a buffer chip with high enough voltage ratings you can put it after the optocoupler to sharpen the pulse. You are right that the optos you are using are far too slow. You can look for opts that are rated for higher frequencies or try a "digital isolator" instead of an opto, they are much faster. However, if you are going to mail order parts, I highly recommend building the circuit that farmhand posted. It is cheap and very tough and sidesteps a lot of the problems we are talking about.

Nice, thanks for the digital isolator suggestion. I got a couple of faster (I think) opto-isolators today. As far as I can make out from the graphs, the ones I'm currently using are 100uS response, and the ones I bought today are 2-10uS, so I'll see what happens. Although naturally the new ones won't fit on the circuit board so I can't just plug and play

Maybe you're right about the circuit, I could also use it for what I'm doing now couldn't I I think one of the problems here is that because I'm having to use a lower frequency to pulse the flyback I'm drawing more current.

In that respect, I just doubled the capacitance before the spark gap, and now things are much better. Brighter fluorescent, less input draw around 500mA, streamers are 2-3 times or more in length at certain settings, and I can even light the fluorescent through 1 wire to some extent off the 2nd coil that's just sitting on the desk not connected to anything and technically not a part of the experiment. (I'm using the helical coils here).

Also at low frequency, or with bigger discharges through having a wider spark gap slowing it down to quite a slow rate, I'm getting shocks through the opposite end of the fluorescent and through a workman's leather glove from the TC output It's all getting very interesting

[Farmhand]

I think you are making some important discoveries, the learning curve is steep. Experimenting is the best way to learn a lot quickly. Things will reveal themselves to you as you go along.

The voltage doubling pulsing circuit Turned out OK but I can only get 230 Khz, I scrapped all the unnecessary drivers and stuff to keep thinds simple.

I have it all set to go and I'm winding a coil for experimenting with. I'm a little side tracked but I wanted to try out this idea I had.

Back to it. I need to make up a proper drawing for this if the coils work how I think they will.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

This is the first coil arrangement I'm going to try, a bit different to a simple coil. I'm attempting to store energy in the cap to invert. I'll make it so one Primary coil can be switched to on or off aswell.


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Here is a non artistic impression of how I will try to mound these type of things up in a small plywood cabinet It could be as small as 500mm tall 400mm wide and 200mm deep. This is for light only.
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6...circuit006.jpg

This is the voltage doubler, resonant charging circuit and switching controller pulsing a small bulb instead of coils


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It is possible to build circuits by "Tesla" light.


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I hope to have my first coils done tonight but it won't be assembled till a day or two.

Cheers

P.S. I'll link these patents here too for reference.

This is the last of Nikola's high frequency lighting arrangements, I think.
It's a work of Art and genious. He uses a rotary make break switch in this one.

NIKOLA TKSLA - Google Patents

And this one is the previous patent, note the dual charging circuit (inductors and caps) connected to and pulsing one Primary coil and notice the phases of the circuit controller/rotary switch.
TESLA - Google Patents

[7imix]

dr-green, any time you are using a spark gap, it is generating tremendous RF interference. This would definitely interfere with any wifi routers in the area. This rf interference is less than ideal because it is energy that is escaping from the system as random noise and cannot be recovered.

To get a spark gap to break down the air dielectric, the voltage must be extremely high, approx 33 kV per cm according to wikipedia.

When it comes to resonance, smoothness of the driver is key, and a spark gap can be less than ideal for this. However spark gaps do give very sharp transients at high voltages, so they are better in that respect. A vacuum tube spark gap would be best, if you can find one.

Here's an experiment I did with 7 air gaps in series, some serious voltage here:

Multiple spark gap - YouTube

[Farmhand]

I think I agree with 7imix about the smoothness, I like to see a smooth looking sine wave, it seems to give more energy too. When the coils are tuned you could hit the primary with a stick and get a sine wave output though. Kidding but almost any input pulse shape works or sine wave even triange. Tesla did really like his mercury interupter circuit controllers though, for reliable uniform make and break of the character he wanted.
Here's some.
NIKOLA TESLA - Google Patents

NIKOLA TESLA - Google Patents

Anyway I forgot to link this patent to go with the last post of mine with the new circuit. I linked these above now in a P.S. so this is a repeat. He uses a rotary make/break switch in this one.

NIKOLA TKSLA - Google Patents

And this one, note the dual charging circuit (inductors and caps) connected to and pulsing one Primary coil and notice the phases of the circuit controller/rotary switch.
TESLA - Google Patents

Thanks for you're help with the circuit last night 7imix, much appreciated.

[Farmhand]

Hi all, here are the coil specs i'll be aiming for with this back to back coil arrangement above. These specs are for only one half or side.

Here is a calculator thingy to put some of the specs into. Some of the stuff I give below are results from this calculator.

OLTC Calculator


Secondaries

100 mm length (high)
0.5 mm wire
94 mm diameter
200 turns

result
2.2 mH
4.36 pF
56 meters of wire

Add 850 pF to toroid capacitance. for 115 Khz Res Frequency

Primaries

4 mm high
1mm wire
100 mm diameter
4 turns

Result
Primary needs 0.212 uF added

Add 115920 Hz to operating frequency box and 20 volts to the primary voltage

Result

5 watts in with 3 amps max current in the primary circuit.
And a potential spark length of 90 mm with 315 volts. I think that sounds about right but I hope the spark is not that long. I think that is in error to some degree. more like 9 mm.

The calculator is not perfect for estimating for these strange coils we build but a pretty good idea can be got from it.

Anyone know any different or better one's ?

Cheers

[dR-Green]

dr-green, any time you are using a spark gap, it is generating tremendous RF interference. This would definitely interfere with any wifi routers in the area.

It's a wired router The cables are easily 8-10 feet away. I didn't think things would extend out this far and have these kinds of effects. I also noticed that it causes my wireless mouse to break down and stutter across the screen, which is about 8 feet away again. I tried to film some video too showing the difference in spark gap size/frequency to light and streamer output, but my webcam keeps breaking down when I activate the circuit, either the video I'm recording keeps freezing or the webcam turns off completely. I can't take it within 6-7 feet. But on the plus side I've resolved my getting shocked issue by taping the fluorescent to the end of a wooden stick

Scary looking video you have there btw What were you doing with all that?


I still need to fine tune my spark gap to make it stay exactly in place once I let go because it likes to settle itself down so the frequency changes slightly, but I think, I'm not sure at the moment, I can find the resonant spots via the spark gap itself. Like Farmhand's musical Tesla video, the spark apparently automatically wants to follow a certain musical scale. I can get clean "notes" which are always in tune with each other, at higher frequencies or close gap distances it will only jump between these notes. I can't go up 1 semitone, but it will go up by fifths or octaves, it shifts in harmonies In fact I started playing tunes by adjusting the spark gap with one hand and holding a fluorescent in the other to get a stereo effect between the streamers and the spark

It looks like that the frequency of pulsing the flyback transformer and the frequency going through the spark gap/pulsing the Tesla coil are sort of two separate events. I can pulse the flyback at a (maybe relatively) random frequency, but then the spark gap is tunable in itself and ultimately controls the frequency of the Tesla coil. That's how I see it anyway. I'm still going to try the 10 times faster opto shortly.

I'm glad the voltage doubler worked Farmhand, I have a feeling I'll be using that at some point

You might want to have a look at these as well

DeepFriedNeon - Tesla Coils

TeslaMap - Tesla Coil Design Program

Like you mentioned they're not so good for the "specialist" coils, but interestingly I put in some approximate numbers on the spiral coil calculator, and the output I got pretty much matched what I've built. It estimated the diameter of my primary to be 30cm, so it was only out by a few millimetres.

Btw the flat spiral coils are doing something else, they're in another league of making meters go crazy. I'm not getting such a good output in terms of lighting a fluorescent, but something else is definitely happening. My meter, on the 10A range, claims I'm drawing 14 amps from a 4A power supply, and it will stay above 10 amps. The transistor remains cool.

I also tried the old incandescent bulb trick but I'm not getting enough power into the system. The filament will glow orange but it's completely useless as a light as it stands. Testing a 240v 15w oven bulb. Once I get enough space and safety I want to try the output of the helical coil to power the spiral coil

[Farmhand]

Hi guy's, good work dR.

I got some pics and a preliminary result from my latest distraction.

I built the coils and mounted them really wierd like. then flicked the switch and hey presto a fluro came on next to it.

Here's some pics.



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If I wait long enough I can get over 350 volts into 1400 uf of caps using less than 200 Ma at 12 volts. If I only use one side the other side will light a fluro.


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http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1...oiltest003.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6...oiltest005.jpg

I'll be changing the primaries and stuff around for a while.

I think the way I have it setup now the second Primary should be an output, and if swap the ends of it around then I can use it in parallel or not as an option. The switch on the right allows me to select no coils either of the two coils singly or both together.

I stuck some discs on the ends to join the wire's to.

Cheers

[MonsieurM]

Cool set up you got there FarmHand

a while back Dave posted this video, i think it might interest you

Self Assisted Oscillation in a Shorted Coil - Bucking Magnetic Field Oscillation - YouTube!
for your viewing entertainment

[Vincevl]

Just getting into this . . .

There is very cool stuff in this thread. I'm just starting out.

You can check my progress here > Tesla Wireless Power Transmission - YouTube

Cheers,
Vince

[c_henriques]

HI,
dR-Green, Farmhand and 7imix

This is my news videos, here is more perceptible the power trasnmission without wires


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wireless at long distance, low power
Tesla - Wireless Power Transmission - long distance - YouTube

wireless with more power
here the receiver is tuned and there is a capacitor conected to the primary of the receiver
Tesla Coil tuning - Wireless energy transmission - YouTube

I think that my imput is approximately 3W

I think here the transmission of energy is based on ordinary Hertzian waves, and nothing to do with Tesla waves or scalar waves, rigth?

if someone has a suggestion of how to produce these waves or how to achieve overunity here, please contact me

best regards,
Henriques

[Farmhand]

There is very cool stuff in this thread. I'm just starting out.

You can check my progress here > Tesla Wireless Power Transmission - YouTube

Cheers,
Vince

Hi Vince, Nice setup. Very neat scope traces too, the wonders of the function generator, they're great. Very usefull and handy. You're gonna have some fun !

I'll link a couple of other threads about this stuff because there may well be some very usefull information in them for us.

This is a thread started by Jetijs some time ago. It's a good read, but remember some clouds have lifted since then and some were already lifted at the time, but i'm fairly new to this so I was not aware.

Jetijs thread.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...nsmission.html

And this thread was started by Monsieur, this is the thread that inspired me to start to experiment in this area.

Monsieur's thread
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...nsmission.html

Now a report on my latest bottom to bottom, dual coil experiment. All is not the best. I did manage to tune it to some kind of resonance and the voltage developed is very good for fluro's, but I have a problem with it using far too much current, my primary coil does not have enough inductance for pulsing directly with mosfets with little inductance I need to much capacitance to lower the "working" frequency and I think this is causing the propensity of the primary circuit to really pump a lot of current through the primaries.

I need to rethink this arrangement. I need to double the frequency I am using somehow, might need to build another circuit using the same chip as I have in the magnifyer circuit.

This is using about 4 watts. But it is not resonant yet and the circuit componants need tuning to the correct values to attain it. But it's working, kinda. I'm only using one primary coil in this photo, the left one.


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There are some very interesting things about this, for instance if I space the primaries a bit further apart I can charge caps quite well to over 100 volts just by connecting the center tap to one side of the AC on the FWBR and connect the other side AC to a Ground. This does not affect te current input or the fluro's.

It seems to work if both coils are pulsed in phase or alternately, but I think one will be better then the other for different purposes.

I think i need to build two separate charging circuits, one for each primary.
I'll need to try some way of charging the primary circuits in multiple and discharge them in series also at some point.

I think i should be able to light at least four of those 330 mm fluro's with less than 10 watts even brighter than those two are lighted in the picture eventually, there is room for 5 or 6 of them. Another thing I must try is lighting one fluro between left and center tap and another one between right and center tap. Gotta tune with the fluro's in place by the looks of it.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

HI,
dR-Green, Farmhand and 7imix

This is my news videos, here is more perceptible the power trasnmission without wires


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

wireless at long distance, low power
Tesla - Wireless Power Transmission - long distance - YouTube

wireless with more power
here the receiver is tuned and there is a capacitor conected to the primary of the receiver
Tesla Coil tuning - Wireless energy transmission - YouTube

I think that my imput is approximately 3W

I think here the transmission of energy is based on ordinary Hertzian waves, and nothing to do with Tesla waves or scalar waves, rigth?

if someone has a suggestion of how to produce these waves or how to achieve overunity here, please contact me

best regards,
Henriques

Hi Henriques, I'm using solid state methods to drive the transmitter. I can't get a sine wave with a spark gap and the erratic nature of the spark gap in my opinion causes a scratchy irregular waveform.

I don't think Tesla used a spark gap for his magnifying transmitter but I think he did for other wireless transmission device's. One of the problems i found was trying to use a scope to see the waveform in real time while using the spark gap. With solid state transmitter switching the waveform is a very smooth sine wave so tuning to full resonance is fairly easy as Vince showed in his video, Thanks Vince .

I think with a spark gap the coils can be rung like a bell but looser coupling is required for higher voltages and so forth, much more difficult to tune. And still the waveform at the terminal may be scratchy looking and cause leaking.

A smooth sine wave at the terminal will give less propensity for the energy to leak out in voltage spikes kind of thing.

I can't give much help for transmitting using a spark gap to drive the transmitter unfortunately. I think the spark gap induces losses not only at the gap itself but also in the terminal and wires because of the scratchyness or erratic voltage spikes there. I could be wrong and I welcome somebody to show me a sine wave from a spark gapped device in operation.

I think at the end Tesla had finally realised a reliable method to convey his currents directly from the Alternator to Excite the Primary of the transmitter.
Thereby delivering a sine wave to the primary with no switching or spark gap and eliminating the losses there. He mentions this in his work on Alternating Currents.

He mentions that when constructed correctly a Magnifying Transmitter primary can be excited by waveforms of any character and a sine wave will result. However the devil is in the detail, a "smooth" sine wave is much better than a scratchy looking one.

My Transmitter waveform.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=32a91...1259&sc=photos

Jl Naudin does suggest that he can get a fairly smooth Sine wave with a spark gap here on this page.
The Tesla Magnifying Transmitter

I can't do it yet though.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

I think this is a Tesla quote, it's from Naudins page.

" To produce an electrical movement of the required magnitude it is desirable to charge the terminal as highly as possible, for while a great quantity of electricity may also be displaced by a large capacity charged to low pressure, there are disavantages met with in many cases when the former is made too large. The chief of theses are due to the fact that an increase of the capacity entails a lowering of the frequency impulses or discharges and diminution of energy of vibration....."

Now to get inside Nikola's head "I hope", I think the part in bold he is talking about the difference between say 12 Hz and 20 Khz not between say 20 Khz and 20 Mhz, it is well known that for ground transmission lower frequencies work better, as a frequency generally thought to be above 20 Khz is not very effective through the ground itself or to resonate the ground !

Tesla wanted to keep his frequency fairly high as in, close to 20 Khz to get as much vibration as practical for ground transmission, not as high as he could get.

Where as we want to lower our frequency as much as possible to try to get down to below 20 Khz to be able to use the ground or to make it easy to drive with a solid state switching setup, I had to lower the resonant frequency of mine to about 440 to 470 Khz depending on the terminal so I could drive it.

Although the frequency can be lowered by more terminal capacitance this would also lower the voltage, less turn in the primary and more capacitance is then needed and you can't have fewer than one primary turn even so a few turns at least is needed for solid state switching I found. And more capacitance in the primary causes more current there as well.

So it is fairly easy to see the solution involves a large secondary inductance with a small capacitance terminal to get the required or desired frequency, taking into account the primary turns required for the desired voltage then the capacitance needed (needs to end up being not too big) across the primary to get resonance. So that the primary circuit does not draw too much current the PW can be adjusted and the input voltage varied.

I think this way the resonant rise can be controlled by current limiting features of the PWM chip to reduce PW, but the load is remote.

Cheers

P.S. For those of us who are happy to experiment with a connecting wire, higher frequencies into the Mhz are fine and better with small input of course.

I recently placed a small 5 watt light bulb in series in the connecting line and noticed it glowed a little bit when I loaded the receiver, so maybe a resistor there will show frequency differences like Antigravitics showed earlier in the thread. I only have up to 10 ohms in big resistors I think he used 1 Kohm.

I think with a connecting wire, a distance of at least 3 or 4 meters between the coils and some resistance in the connector will show if there is a Tesla like effect happening. I noticed if mine are too close they will work even without a connector wire by other means and not necessarily by "Earth wire" currents between the coils. It could be both at some distance. And also increasing the distance of transmission gives more propensity for the terminals to leak.

I notice most people have much better terminals than me. I still have the same crumply looking one's but they are not too bad considering, I think the rippled pattern of the pipe I used makes a second radius within the first kinda like on the terminal in the patent. But my foil is all crumpled.

Oh well soon I'll fix that.

..