What is your aspect of free energy machines?

[freepenguin]

I'm just a tinker..

How many of you really think about the consequences of having you the real FE machine that power entire house? I love to hear from you.

Because I know 99.9999999999999999999% of world population doesn't know about FE technologies exist.

I've had many "Whys" why the inventors won't disclose the real info: formula, not words or claims that it will work if you build right. As times went by, I figured out why they did not fully disclose their information. I personally had real bad experiences for past few years. It gave me insight of human nature. And, made me more cautious not to trust other peoples words.

My only protection of me being used by bad people is to watch their behavior for a period of time. Good words and gestures are empty promises. So many many drunken warriors and heroes exist. They are the real ones just when they get drunken and talk about how much they concern about humanity, the injustice, free energy stuff. I haven't meet a single person yet who actually come to me and try to work together. I heard quite several times "Please make it for people. You are right." during private talk with close friends/relatives at my age.

If I'll have the real machine at my hands, I'll just use it for myself everyday. If somebody get interest about it, I'll made a legal agreement and build a unit and provide service case by case. Of course, no freaking patent nor legal business operation.

The chance of having patent of real FE device means 'Hey, put me in jail. Thank you.' against the authorities. Running a legal business as usual does the same. The power and energy companies do not want any disruptions at all. There are so many stupid laws at least 20,000 to 30,000 rules and regulations.

The best bet is an inventor sells its patent when a group of people approaches and offer $$$. The inventor will have good chunk of money and move away from free energy activities.

Green house farmers spend $1,500 to $2,000 for fuel during winter to maintain indoor temperature high enough to produce vegetables. The high fuel price nowadays cut their throat. To save extra pennies, some farmers light up hundreds candles in green houses every night during winter. I watched few news about it last winter. But, the professionals: engineers, researchers, university professors do not care.

I sent real mathematical proof of two free energy devices to a professor of the university I graduated asking 'Can you give your honest opinion about it as a scientist?'
(Two proofs were done by other scientists.) I doubt it I will get any response.

[Farmhand]

Hi freepenguin, seems everybody is busy, there are a lot of similar experiences by others, all it will take is a few to have no fear and the conviction of what is right and good to act as the icebreakers. Although I think the snowball is getting close to avanche inducing proportions and there is no stopping it.

It won't be long in my opinion before the production of enough very cheap power to supply our home's is within reach. In fact I think it is already here, it is just not very easy to acheive just yet.

Once the false laws and rules of energy are disregarded and the true nature of electricity and the universe is revealed by the scientific boneheads which will come probably after they are given the information by uncompromised people like us. Once it is revealed millions of very sharp minds will begin to take advantage of the new benifits availiable, unrestricted by the previous taboos and enlightened and inspired by the possiblities.

Get ready for all the attempted new regulation and rule's regarding electrical power in our homes, we must defend our right to make our own power for personal use. Even if we have the ability, if we are told like children that we are not allowed to have our own power production devices and we all comply like dutiful subordinates, we will be no better off than we are now.

Gey ready for Chaos. It may not be pleasent. When they see it coming they will burden us with many more taxes and price rises to make up for thier losses and slack our spirit. The one's who cannot go without the grid system as optional will pay dearly for energy.

There will be problems for sure. But we must be brave and confront them.

We are many, they are few. This is our planet not thiers.

Cheers

[mbrownn]

Hi freepnguin,

The consequences would be to bring down the system , personally I think we need the change.

I have noticed some of the technology is used already in military applications and one or two pieces of it are starting to appear in industry. None of these things that I have seen, I would call a free energy device but is a step in the right direction.

Has there been a conspiracy to suppress it? almost certainly.

There are many sharp minds working on it now but with limited budget and the propagandists are spreading misinformation to stop it being accepted. The establishment universities tend to shy away from such research and I can only speculate why. This knowledge will only be open to the public in a free and open society, something we are moving away from at this present time.

When this system collapses, and it will, maybe then we will see the full potential and if we are lucky these devices will become available to the general public.

As for now, we can build and develop in small communities like this and share information so it cannot be buried. We can teach the young the basics and hope that when the time is right they will break down the wall in science and force this technology into the mainstream.

I for one, am teaching students in a "university" the basics of the Bedini fan and will include PPMT and coil shorting techniques, plus the other things I think I know about other devices, as soon as I can.

As for the patents of the inventors, of course we have to protect them as they deserve the rewards . Inventors have been forced to do their work in secret and patent their devices to stop the big corporations from steeling their ideas and cutting them out of the deal . If I could build low cost, high power Bedini energizers, would I do it? Yes, but I would talk to John first so that he could get his just reward. We cannot bite the hand that feeds us, as others have done, or we are no better than the people that buried this information in the first place.

Get ready for the chaos Farmhand speaks of, its coming.

[nueview]

In my life certain things have been very evident over the years of research.
the biggest is the attitude of people at large in 1978 i built a pogue type carburetor just to see if there was anything to it. i got allot of peoples reactions all very discouraging and just stopped spending money on it and moved on but allot was learned about type of other possible fuels and how fuels want to burn and work efficiently.
then i worked on motional magnetic fields and that got the same reactions from people as well but funding became the problem. it is interesting that most of the newman pulse motor drives were found back then as well as many other things about magnetic amplification and now the papers are not even available to people at all.
then came the capacitive generators and tom beardon and the government and things you just would not believe so will not say.
then came allot of magnetic motors but the cost of these were imperative to how far you could go and the results achieved guess that is why i like to follow these, they will not be cheap nor free and will have to have the magnets re-energized after periods of time but it will be acceptable.
next came magnetic heaters and got beyond the cop of 1 but could not get a patent for that reason as it would upset the science apple cart. what a reply.
and amid all this allot of electronics devices and allot of findings i wanted to share with people but as always they were to dismissing though many are now being discussed in forums but it is twenty years later.
a psychologist told me once that change came at the cost of human lives i hope not because if so the cost of energy is going to be real high as it is already adding up.
my advice is do what you can, learn for yourself all you can, love others, and be open to the bizarre idea as it may open a new door.
Martin

[freepenguin]

mbrownn
As for the patents of the inventors, of course we have to protect them as they
deserve the rewards . Inventors have been forced to do their work in secret and
patent their devices to stop the big corporations from steeling their ideas and
cutting them out of the deal . If I could build low cost, high power Bedini
energizers, would I do it? Yes, but I would talk to John first so that he could
get his just reward. We cannot bite the hand that feeds us, as others have done,
or we are no better than the people that buried this information in the first
place.

The patent law has been backed up by the capitalism. To claim of ownership of an idea is so absurd and stupid IMHO. What if all the inventors/scientists in free energy research had focus on spreading their secrets with others rather than applying patents and being shafted or suppressed by TPTB? Once knowledge become part of public domain, it's can not be suppressed.

Advanced civilizations I've learned don't have money system nor patent stuff at all. They share the knowledge and of course provides reward to individuals who come out new ideas and technologies. The advancement of sciences and technologies are way faster than compared to privatization and ownership of knowledge including the secrecy.

How many individuals and organizations are doing exactly same thing behind their little closet nowadays? Competition, winner takes all is huge waste of time and resource overall for humanity.

nueview
a psychologist told me once that change came at the cost of human lives i hope
not because if so the cost of energy is going to be real high as it is already
adding up. my advice is do what you can, learn for yourself all you can, love others, and
be open to the bizarre idea as it may open a new door.

I agree with you. I realized the joy of learning 15 years ago since then I never stopped. As I look back the public education system turned out nothing but a slave production system. Most people stopped self-learning once they get out of school system. Put themselves lower position whenever they confront new ideas or technologies saying "I don't know Calculus. I don't have college diploma. etc."

[Farmhand]

The patent law has been backed up by the capitalism. To claim of ownership of an idea is so absurd and stupid IMHO. What if all the inventors/scientists in free energy research had focus on spreading their secrets with others rather than applying patents and being shafted or suppressed by TPTB? Once knowledge become part of public domain, it's can not be suppressed.
"

Yes freepenguin, I agree, an idea is not a material possesion, knowledge can be possesed and used by millions of people while not costing anybody anything.

It's like this, an idea can be passed on free of charge without having to expend any real effort, on the other hand a material object if it is to be possessed by many people must be reproduced, an idea or knowledge is different it can be passed to millions of people without ever having to reproduce anything.

The idea of protecting by law something that is not even a material thing is absolutely rediculous, and totaly repugnant to me, and I personally do not respect stupid and meaningless laws.

I will go ahead and reproduce anything I can or want not only because it is enabled by the fair use clause of patent law but because there is not really any person on this planet with any real authority, the authority of any other person over us is relinquished by us to them.

In my opinion if a person wants to keep thier idea to themselves they should do exactly that, keep it to themselves. As soon as an idea is made public through any means by patent or no, the idea is offered to all to use free of charge. It's true the patent law can be enforced if a person makes money from a patented idea. But it is about the money. Jails and finacial ruin are easily inflicted on the few by the many nomatter the justice of it. When a patent violator is jailed we that do nothing are part of the process.

Any person has the basic right to be able to use any information or knowledge that they become the possessor of, it really is that simple.

If i have read a patent the knowlege in the patent is now possessed by me in my mind, it is completely unlawfull for others to try to control how anybody else uses the knowledge they possess for purposes which do not phisically harm anyone else.

Cheers

[mbrownn]

The patent law has been backed up by the capitalism. To claim of ownership of an idea is so absurd and stupid IMHO. What if all the inventors/scientists in free energy research had focus on spreading their secrets with others rather than applying patents and being shafted or suppressed by TPTB? Once knowledge become part of public domain, it's can not be suppressed.

Advanced civilizations I've learned don't have money system nor patent stuff at all. They share the knowledge and of course provides reward to individuals who come out new ideas and technologies. The advancement of sciences and technologies are way faster than compared to privatization and ownership of knowledge including the secrecy.

How many individuals and organizations are doing exactly same thing behind their little closet nowadays? Competition, winner takes all is huge waste of time and resource overall for humanity.


I agree with you. I realized the joy of learning 15 years ago since then I never stopped. As I look back the public education system turned out nothing but a slave production system. Most people stopped self-learning once they get out of school system. Put themselves lower position whenever they confront new ideas or technologies saying "I don't know Calculus. I don't have college diploma. etc."

In an Ideal world, your ideas would be fine, unfortunately we are not in an ideal world. Human nature, unfortunately, has the tenancy to take and use whatever it wants for its own purpose (steal). It also has the tendency to hold back others for its own benefit (suppress and enslave).

The patent system, while being far from perfect, is all that we have to protect us. If a person has an idea that leads to vast riches for others, is it fair that others grow rich while he remains hungry? The idea is that the inventor can benefit from his own work and cannot be prevented from benefiting and even receive some reward when others do well out of his ideas. unfortunately it doesn't always work like that and is often used to prevent others from benefiting and to control and monopolize the market.

For example, I have come up with an idea to combine two different technologies in a unique way, If this becomes the new standard and every manufacturer benefits by selling this technology, is it fair that the two inventors of the original technologies plus myself receive no reward. I don't think so. Is it also fair that I can be prevented from using my own ideas.

So I am in partial agreement, we should all be able to benefit from knowledge, but we also have to be fair to the inventor. I agree that ideas should be in the public domain so that we can all benefit from them and they can be developed further but I strongly believe that an idea be rewarded by receiving a share of the profits. Incidentally, I have put all my ideas in the public domain.


Taking this a step further, we don't have an education system, we have an indoctrination system. We are instructed in ways that limit our thinking and discourage free thought. This is why most of the technology we use is a hundred years old or more. We have been told not to invent and to accept receiving little or nothing for our labors. By putting our ideas in the public domain it is difficult for them to be suppressed and I think we should do it. The only problem is the big corporations will use the patent system against us and lock us out of our ideas.

[mbrownn]

Yes freepenguin, I agree, an idea is not a material possesion, knowledge can be possesed and used by millions of people while not costing anybody anything.

It's like this, an idea can be passed on free of charge without having to expend any real effort, on the other hand a material object if it is to be possessed by many people must be reproduced, an idea or knowledge is different it can be passed to millions of people without ever having to reproduce anything.

The idea of protecting by law something that is not even a material thing is absolutely rediculous, and totaly repugnant to me, and I personally do not respect stupid and meaningless laws.

I will go ahead and reproduce anything I can or want not only because it is enabled by the fair use clause of patent law but because there is not really any person on this planet with any real authority, the authority of any other person over us is relinquished by us to them.

In my opinion if a person wants to keep thier idea to themselves they should do exactly that, keep it to themselves. As soon as an idea is made public through any means by patent or no, the idea is offered to all to use free of charge. It's true the patent law can be enforced if a person makes money from a patented idea. But it is about the money. Jails and finacial ruin are easily inflicted on the few by the many nomatter the justice of it. When a patent violator is jailed we that do nothing are part of the process.

Any person has the basic right to be able to use any information or knowledge that they become the possessor of, it really is that simple.

If i have read a patent the knowlege in the patent is now possessed by me in my mind, it is completely unlawfull for others to try to control how anybody else uses the knowledge they possess for purposes which do not phisically harm anyone else.

Cheers

I understand your sentiment, but reading a patent does not give you ownership or any rights to benefit from it financially. Possession implies ownership. If it were I, that made the laws, I would do things differently, but I don't.

Protection of patents should not be about prevention of their use but should be about rewarding the person that thought of it. I know of many cases where inventors have come up with unique solutions (including myself to a small degree) and had companies and corporations use that idea, patent around it and prevent the inventor from ever benefiting. To me this is clearly wrong but believe me it does happen all the time.

If you had a unique idea and told me and I became a trillionare from it while you recieved nothing, would that be fair? No, but as things stand that could happen. The patent system is all that we have and until we get a better system, we should respect the inventors of the technology.

A perfect example of patent abuse is the Tesla, Marconi situation. Clearly Tesla was the inventor, but Marconi was the person that patented it. I believe something should be done about this type of patent abuse.

The Idea of patents is not bad, Its the lawyers and corporations that have corrupted it.

[Farmhand]

Hi mbrownn, It is a complicated topic for sure, but I do think it boils down eventually to the basic law of possession, how can the possessiion of knowledge be questioned ? If I actually possess it it is mine. If I agree to pay for it then that's fine. But it is not like a thing.

Say if I find a persons possession that they have left laying in public say a hat, just looking at it and understanding what it is and what it does in no way whatsoever affects the owner of the hat or the hat. If I go and make myself a hat with the knowlege I myself collect through my own cognition. I don't see why I should pay the person who left thier hat laying around for me to see any money or anything.

However if I was to actually take the hat from it's location and take possession of it then that would be stealing the hat, it is a thing it can be stolen.

My realisation of how the hat is constructed, how it works and how it is used is work performed by me and me only. I need not pay anyone for using my own mind.

If I wanted to buy a hat thats fine too.

If I was the inventor of a the hat I would still wear them in public even though others would copy it because to go out in the sun with no hat when I have the technology availiable would be very selfish and self harming aswell.

This is just how I see things and I might be completely mad. But it is what it is.

People have full ownership of the knowledge they possess and that being true they can use the knowledge they possess however they like as long as it does not harm anyone else or take from them.

The patent system is about money. The knowledge can be used without the user making money from it, this is what i'm talking about.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Basically in order to actually steal something it must be taken away from it's original owner, therefore the original owner is no longer in possession of the something in question. It is not possible to remove the original idea from the inventors possession therefore it is impossible to actuall steal it. It cannot be done. It is impossible to actually steal an idea.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

I should add, I havn't been successful in actually replicating any Patents yet, I lack the required skills for many things and even if I did I would never try to make money from something with a current patent or expired for that matter. But if I do eventually replicate a useful patent should I keep it a secret or should I show that thing does work as stated ? Showing that it works should only enhance the reputation of the inventor and therefore possibly increase his profit as long as the invenor owns the patent and enforces it.

It is much too easy for the inventor to be "harrassed" if nobody else understands his invention or will verify it's validity.

I do buy stuff and contribute my fair share to other peoples reward for thier work and have no problem with that.

It could be argued that idea's being gleaned from others for free is a natural process and an unavoidable part of the learning experience. Which would go all the way back to the discovery of the wheel, imagine if the first guy to make a wheel ran around demanding something from everybody else that copied his wheel. I think he just went ahead and put two wheels together to make a cart and kept advancing, others would improve the wheel and the cart by which time he had taken advantage of the use of his discovery which is why he did in the first place, to use it for it's intended purpose.

It is possible for more than one person to discover the same thing at the same time aroundabout, each without knowing of the other and they both would call it thier invention. The chance is remote but real.

I think if people were perceptive enough it would be very difficult to hide anything much.

Cheers

[Allcanadian]

@mbrownn

I understand your sentiment, but reading a patent does not give you ownership or any rights to benefit from it financially. Possession implies ownership. If it were I, that made the laws, I would do things differently, but I don't.

I would disagree, all we have to do is ask the inventor how they came up with the idea. I do not mean the BS excuse they tell everyone else I mean what really lead them to their idea. You see I have yet to hear of any inventor who has not based a majority of their supposed idea on some other persons idea or thoughts thus there is no exclusive ownership to anything. If we really want to talk of "possession" or "ownership" then every supposed inventor owes every person they have come in contact with or their ideas partial ownership as well.
Ah but they do not want to talk about that do they, not unlike little children they always try to fool others and claim everything as their own. I can only think that if most adults actually grew up and acted like mature compassionate responsible adults many of the problems we face would not exist.
Regards
AC

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi allcanadian, you really light up my day when I see such clear thinking and wisdom written down.
I hope all human beings wake up and achieve this level of awareness and wisdom.
Though we should forgive and love them, after all, they have been severely brain washed since birth to make choices and actions against the highest good of one and all and that includes me at one time or another.
Same with you farmhand, much great wisdom you share as well, thanks all.
peace love light
tyson

[mbrownn]

Hi all, I understand your interpretation of the use of patents, I too have my own feelings on how they should work, but the truth is this is not how it works.

Yes, it is about money and yes I understand that each inventor usually builds upon someone elses work. I have had a little experience of this but not in the electrical field. One of the goals of a patent is to protect intellectual property ie knowledge, not from being understood but from being exploited to the detriment of the inventor. Its not quite the same as the hat scenario.

I haven't gone deeply into patent law so I could be wrong in some of the things I say so this is my interpretation.

A man has an idea and wishes to make a living from his idea. so he builds a device and sells it to the next man. With this money he can live for a while and have enough left to build a second device to sell, a bit like a farmer growing veggies. But the problem began when the second man, who was richer than the first, took the device apart and copied it in his mass production factory. This second man is able to sell the device cheaper and still make more money than the first man. Now the first man is unable to sell his device and starves, the second man becomes a trillionaire and gets all the credit and a nobel peace prize. No permission was asked or gave and no reward or recognition was given to the inventor. This to most people would be an unsatisfactory condition.

As the first man claimed it was his idea a court would recognize that he should get some compensation but to prove it was his idea he needs to have evidence. The evidence is the patent.

Now where this all falls apart is where the second man files a counter patent on some aspects of the device that the first did not include in his patent. now they both have a patent on the same device and as usual it is the man with the biggest wallet that will win in court. He will then be able to prevent the first man from using his own technology Also an unsatisfactory condition.

Now the CIA steps in and says this device is of national security interest and buries the patent and no-one is allowed to look at it. Does this sound familiar?

I don't have all the answers and understand that in my simple interpretations of this I am not giving the full picture but I think you get the idea. I would like to protect and help the little man with the idea, as I am in a similar position. I do not think any knowledge should be buried and I wish we were allowed to replicate and copy for personal use, I wish all patents were in the public domain. I think all patents should be time limited by the same amount and I think getting your patent should be a right not a requirement that you have to pay big bucks for. Proof of concept at the earliest date should be required for this automatic patent. This could be a signed and witnessed document or a blog or post in the public domain like this forum. I am on the fence when it comes to exploiting a patent, but in general I think anyone should be allowed to, there may be exceptions like building Nukes etc.

This is the most tricky part is the compensation/reward for this intellectual property, anyone that exploits a patent for profit or gain should have to compensate/reward the inventor a reasonable amount based upon the profit or gain during the patent period.

Now we are in the mine field, how is this to be applied? how is it to be enforced? who makes the decisions? who watches the watchers? etc etc


If you do not agree with protecting the inventor and rewarding him for his work, then I disagree with you and I think there is many on this forum that would too

[Farmhand]

Well I guess I do agree with a persons right to not have thier idea's used by others for a profit for sure, it's hard to disagree with that. But the selling of patent rights confuses that, a lot. I'm no patent lawer myself, but I think the rights to patents can be sold, and if they can be sold they can be extorted. The latter would not benifit the inventor.

Where are all the rich inventors ? I guess there are some maybe many, but what did they invent ?

I'm all for helping the inventors too, even open source can be misused or abused, it's human nature to take advantage of things. With open source there are some scams and some very useful legitimate things too. How much of the stuff we buy these days is patented, surely there must be zillions of patent applications by now, seems an unworkable system in the long run. I can't imagine an alternative enforcable system that would work either though.