Generator Problem

[martin_accounting]

First, I'd like to say my knowledge and vocabulary of physics is very limit.

Second my question; I've been working on building a generator from scratch using a childs toy. (its cheap ). Im using permanate magnets and 22 gauge enamal coated magnet wire. Ive run into a problem where with my design i cant get magnets spin inside of my wire coils, which from the research ive done, seems to be fairly important. Am I wrong on that?

Ive opened up several generators (where i work thats what we sell almost exclusively) and I've noticed that there are what looks to be some type of metal that goes inside of the coils kind of "faking" the magnet spinning inside the coil.

So the big question for me is what is that metal inside there? Is there anywhere u can buy just that part? Ive tried taking it out of some scrap but I can't seem to get it out without breaking it.

If this is already out there I appologize but theres 109 pages and a lot of reading I've been trying to find my answer in.

[Joit]

Hi and

There are usually 2 Parts at a Rotor from a Generator also at a Motor.
Once is the Rotor made from an Iron Cage, what redirect the Flux to the other Coils, and between is Alluminium, what cuts the Magnetfield from the Rotor, that it -shall- straighten it more into the other Side of the Rotor.

See Figure 7 at this Page where it says Squirrel Cage Induction Motor.

Hope that Answers your Question

[martin_accounting]

Thank you for the welcome and the information. One more question...I have seen designs where the coils are set up in a horse shoe shape, like in the SEG. Does that eleminate the need for the aluminum conductor bars? and if so is there any significant loss in potential current?

Does the squirrel cage have any importance other than durability and (im assuming) dispersant of heat?

[Joit]

Well, let me say so, the SEG is a unconventional Build, so are the Pickup coils there. If it has advantages, you need to try it.
The Aluminium actually does not conducting, it seperates the Flux.
When you let a Magnet slide over Copper or Alluminium, you will see, that the Metal pretty slow down the Magnet.
At a Rotor it shall have the Effect, to force the Flux into the other Direction and lesser to the Sides left right in the Cage.
Seriously, if that works better, or the losses from the friction at the Alluminium are higher, i dont know it, never could and would make such a Rotor by my own.
But the Coil at the SEG are made for, that they have lesser Resistance when they dont have her complete Side on the Magnets.
In a Standard Coil you mostly have Back Electro magnetic Force, what is a Field, what is build up from the Load, what you use on the Generator Coil, like a clog up. At his Coils he try to avoide it by moving the Coils half away from the Magnets, and the main Flux enters there on the End of the Coils, and move around.
But the SEG have anyway unusual Magnets too, Searl does magnetize them by his own in a very special Way after his Law of Squares, and i think noone knows really, where which Pole is.

[martin_accounting]

Okay thank you, I was not aware that the SEG had specialized magnets involved. I personally am skeptical of the design anyway; seems to me to be an extraordinary step-up transformer, but i know little about it.

Looking at 7500 rpm would 22 guage wire be okay for a generator or should I go with larger or smaller guage? I have fears of over heating and catching fire.

Another question that may seem a little off topic, but when I get my prototype working ill let everyone in on the reason... I'm looking for a material that meets these requirements:

1. felxible at about a 6 inch width (roughly 45 degree flexability)
2. wont become brittle at -20 F
3. wont become too soft at 120 F
4. durable enough to be run over (lets say by a 10,000 lb forklift)

now heres my idea for the material which at this point is just a guess. I was thinking about a 1/8 inch think aluminum with a type of truck bed covering (such as rhino, sold in america). For my prototype im using a thin layer of fiberglass, which isnt practical for large scale.

[Joit]

About your Material, i think i cant help you, for the Wire Size,
it depends, how much Power you wanna create. Thinner Wires give more Voltage. thicker Wires easier more Amperage
There is a table at this Page below, where you can find the Specs for Wire.
American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies
But Generators do not burn up that easy, mostly it are bad Bearings or broken Wires, what make a Short and the Sparks cause the burning. Else it must be droven very hard on the Limit and sooner it are the Belts or Gearings what fall apart.
The Values above give a Overview, how much Voltage each Wire can create,
for the Amp, its where they start heat up, but i have found, that the Value is slighly higher, so its not to critical.

[tecknomancer]

Axial flux Alternator

First, I'd like to say my knowledge and vocabulary of physics is very limit.

Second my question; I've been working on building a generator from scratch using a childs toy. (its cheap ). Im using permanate magnets and 22 gauge enamal coated magnet wire. Ive run into a problem where with my design i cant get magnets spin inside of my wire coils, which from the research ive done, seems to be fairly important. Am I wrong on that?

Ive opened up several generators (where i work thats what we sell almost exclusively) and I've noticed that there are what looks to be some type of metal that goes inside of the coils kind of "faking" the magnet spinning inside the coil.

So the big question for me is what is that metal inside there? Is there anywhere u can buy just that part? Ive tried taking it out of some scrap but I can't seem to get it out without breaking it.

If this is already out there I appologize but theres 109 pages and a lot of reading I've been trying to find my answer in.

just a bit of info that may help less than a minute long
Axial flux Alternator How it works in a Wind Power Generator application

Axial flux Alternator Video

[martin_accounting]

I'm loving the information im getting here that ive had so much trouble finding on my own, so to start i'd like to say thank you all very much.

However; All this new information raises more questions for me.

The 3 phase generator has all the copper coils sitting at 40 Degrees and the magnet dispersed differently. Is this so there is a more consistant charge or flux around the various coils? Or is there another reason? It seems to me that you would get a stronger current created with a single phase generator but it would have that (ummm how would u say) "dead spot" when none of the magnet are in line with the coils.

This is all leading up to my release of what i believe is a new type of fairly reliable type of renewable energy please bare with me. call me crazy haha

[kyle]

First, I'd like to say my knowledge and vocabulary of physics is very limit.

Second my question; I've been working on building a generator from scratch using a childs toy. (its cheap ). Im using permanate magnets and 22 gauge enamal coated magnet wire. Ive run into a problem where with my design i cant get magnets spin inside of my wire coils, which from the research ive done, seems to be fairly important. Am I wrong on that?

Ive opened up several generators (where i work thats what we sell almost exclusively) and I've noticed that there are what looks to be some type of metal that goes inside of the coils kind of "faking" the magnet spinning inside the coil.

So the big question for me is what is that metal inside there? Is there anywhere u can buy just that part? Ive tried taking it out of some scrap but I can't seem to get it out without breaking it.

If this is already out there I appologize but theres 109 pages and a lot of reading I've been trying to find my answer in.

Hi there..

Generator is based on the principle of "electromagnetic induction" and the electricity is generated by the help of copper wire which is moved through a magnetic field and hand crank is a metal spin inside in this magnetic field.


regards kyle

[Joit]

The 3 phase generator has all the copper coils sitting at 40 Degrees and the magnet dispersed differently. Is this so there is a more consistant charge or flux around the various coils? Or is there another reason? It seems to me that you would get a stronger current created with a single phase generator but it would have that (ummm how would u say) "dead spot" when none of the magnet are in line with the coils.

The Distance from the Coils in this Generators has usually not much to do with how much Energy is created,
they could be 90° apart too.
A 3 Phase Generator has the Coils only Shifted, that each Coilpair has it Peak at different Timing.
You see this Sinewaves below from this Video too.
Each Time, when a Pole passes the Coil a Peak is created, either a ie. Positive Hill or a negative Hill, depending on the Pole.
The Strenght of this Energy allways depends at the Strenght from the Magnetic Field.
It is like hammering on a Nail, and Push the Nail into one Direction or back.
This so called 'dead Spot' is only the middle between the negative and positive Sinewave, where there is no negative or positive Amplitude.
And as this Generators would work as Motors too, you can use this 3 Phase time-shifted Energy to drive a Motor with the same Arrangement from Coils, with shifted Coils.
The Distance from the Coils and Magnets do not have any unusual behave,
the Peak is allways, when the Magnets are in the Middle from the Coils.
When they are close together, they can have slightly Influnce to eachother,
then it doesnt make much matter, because its allways the Peak what counts,
but it has no amplifying Effect.
AC Motors and Generators
How a Generator Works

[tecknomancer]

The Distance from the Coils in this Generators has usually not much to do with how much Energy is created,
they could be 90° apart too.
A 3 Phase Generator has the Coils only Shifted, that each Coilpair has it Peak at different Timing.
You see this Sinewaves below from this Video too.
Each Time, when a Pole passes the Coil a Peak is created, either a ie. Positive Hill or a negative Hill, depending on the Pole.
The Strenght of this Energy allways depends at the Strenght from the Magnetic Field.
It is like hammering on a Nail, and Push the Nail into one Direction or back.
This so called 'dead Spot' is only the middle between the negative and positive Sinewave, where there is no negative or positive Amplitude.
And as this Generators would work as Motors too, you can use this 3 Phase time-shifted Energy to drive a Motor with the same Arrangement from Coils, with shifted Coils.
The Distance from the Coils and Magnets do not have any unusual behave,
the Peak is allways, when the Magnets are in the Middle from the Coils.
When they are close together, they can have slightly Influnce to eachother,
then it doesnt make much matter, because its allways the Peak what counts,
but it has no amplifying Effect.
AC Motors and Generators
How a Generator Works

Sorry peak is where the magnet passes the winds the middle is the zeropoint

[Joit]

tecknomancer
Well, can be, even when i doubt it, that between the Windings from the Coil appears a Zero.
I did assume, that the Magnetic Field is equal to the Coils,
also that the Coils cover the surface from the Magnets.
Also it depends, if there is a Load on the Generator, because the Coil get faster saturated.

And therefor i did refer to the Point, when the Magnet is passing the Coil and have the most Inductance to the Coil.

But i do not like this Design anyway.

When this is your Rotor at the Video you did post, then it can be,
that the Peak is, when the Coil is between the Magnets,
but at standard Generators, the Poles are about 135° apart,
to far, that they can take a direct influence.

[martin_accounting]

Is there a standard formula for calculating the amount of torque needed to produce a given amount of watts? or does it vary quite a bit from generator to generator? It's based off of load being pulled if im not mistaken, but is there a formula to figure torque for maximum load? (not sure I worded that right)