* SPECIAL EVENT * August 4, 2011, 7pm Pacific Time Zone

[Aaron]

preventing uneducated gossip

When you use a question especially an open ended question, you always make sure that the answer is going to be the answer you want - otherwise you get the situation that took place.

The situation you see is a very small minority of people that don't want to take responsibility for buying into their own assumptions - sorry but I'm not into buying excuses and reasoning for this.

All you hear is the whining from a small percentage of everyone on the call and this proves my point as I stated to DavidE in the time machine switch thread. You take what you see and think that is the whole situation - this is what most every else does as well and it doesn't do them any justice.

If it was posted that it was a health call, plenty of people would have posted that it is the same as what Peter put in his newsletter. Then people would have been going to the company site ahead of time, people will start posting ridiculous things like it is "one of those kind of products" or whatever and that would have stopped MANY people from ever learning the facts about it. You can dispute this if you want but you would be far from honest or realistic. I simply prevented uneducated posts that will taint other people's minds about the matter from being posted before the call happened.

[Savvypro]

Just because you think Robert Collier is the horse's mouth - that only means it is the horse's mouth to you.

If you actually read my post it says (I've highlighted the bit you seem to have missed out):

Robert Collier is one of the horses mouths

There is Elmer Wheeler and plenty of others and many schools of thoughts that work. Gary Halbert is THE undisputed king of sales copy and earned more per letter than anyone else alive during his time (he died a few years ago) in the copyrighted industry and that includes Jay Abraham and plenty of others.

You bring up Gary Halbert and Jay Abraham - guess who's book they recommend to people when learning how to write copy. I'll give you a clue: Robert Collier

My banner isn't from Gary Halbert, but just pointing out that Robert Collier is not the only game in town.

You assumed that I said he was - see above...

You tell me all this apparently coming from experience, but what I want to know is, what kind of success do you have in network marketing at this very moment?

You say you had success and some failure - we all have, but what is your best success? I'm not asking for $ amount, what is the size of your biggest network that you personally built in network marketing and what company was it?

Since you seem to know the best way to do things, I'm sure you'll have some impressive results.

I don't do network marketing. But I'll give you an example which has nothing to do with selling for $£€. I've employed copywriting (when I was a sys admin supporting just under 20,000 users) to position a new large scale combined wireless and wired network for private and public use, which ended up covering 12+ buildings.

Everything that I did: documentation, user instructions, even the user interface of the network (all based on copywriting principles) all resulted in no complaints from any of the users. This is significant because in order to use the network, the users would have to download and run scanning software on their machines - to see if they meet the security requirements. I positioned the network so well that we didn't get a peep from any of the paranoid users - especially from our main problem user.

3 times more users ended up actively using it then the original requirements envisioned. About a month and a half after I left, the network control server ran out of licenses, during the summer holiday period. This is partly based on how I designed, configured and deployed the network (all by myself) and partly on the copy principles I employed.

[Savvypro]

The situation you see is a very small minority of people that don't want to take responsibility for buying into their own assumptions - sorry but I'm not into buying excuses and reasoning for this.

All you hear is the whining from a small percentage of everyone on the call and this proves my point as I stated to DavidE in the time machine switch thread. You take what you see and think that is the whole situation - this is what most every else does as well and it doesn't do them any justice.

If it was posted that it was a health call, plenty of people would have posted that it is the same as what Peter put in his newsletter. Then people would have been going to the company site ahead of time, people will start posting ridiculous things like it is "one of those kind of products" or whatever and that would have stopped MANY people from ever learning the facts about it. You can dispute this if you want but you would be far from honest or realistic. I simply prevented uneducated posts that will taint other people's minds about the matter from being posted before the call happened.

I'm not making excuses for them, just pointing out, as an independent observer - areas which were executed badly (which we've covered, so there no point in going over old ground).

[gravityblock]

DIY - Stable Redox Molecules

For those who may be interested, here's a thread on, "DIY - Stable Redox Molecules". This is being done in the "Spirit of Open-Source" and Educational Purposes for those who may be interested, who can't afford the manufactured product, or is turned-off by the MLM approach, etc.

Thanks,

GB

[Aaron]

find something constructive

Seriously, not even the letter book.

My mistake, one of the horses mouths, but whether it is one or more, it is interesting how you appear to be surprised (in your comment above) that someone hasn't followed your same path. There are quite a few different paths in this life - I'm sure you know that.

The thing that gets me is how you are so sure of yourself that it is "executed poorly" because you have a small percentage of people complaining about misleading themselves.

You prove this point again claiming it was poor, people see one thing and their mind goes into autopilot mode creating all kinds of false realities about the situation instead of just seeing it for what it is. What it is, is a few people complaining about it but out of that you have all the answers. Just like the analogy of the three wise men that each are grabbing a different part of an elephant - trunk, leg and tail - each is asked to describe what it is and they are coming to a conclusion based on a small glimpse of the overall picture.

I know what the real results are because I'm corresponding with people by phone and email on a daily basis since then - people that are interested in doing something productive with their lives, not finding things to complain about.

And, most of them are members of Energetic Forum. They're actually appreciative of learning something new about the health breakthrough and they're thankful for the battery secret.

[FRC]

For those who may be interested, here's a thread on, "DIY - Stable Redox Molecules". This is being done in the "Spirit of Open-Source" and Educational Purposes for those who may be interested, who can't afford the manufactured product, or is turned-off by the MLM approach, etc.

Thanks,

GB

Any idea how much the flourospectrometer would cost ? If one were to do it for personal consumption, I think this would be a must have instrument and might end up costing more than the commercial product anyway. I think it is a good idea to get in on the ground floor of the MLM concept, even though I do not like it myself. But you have to keep in mind that a lot of health products started this way, and it was years before they came down in price
and eventually became mainstream. If you can get in on it these first few years, it would probably be worth it.

FRC

[gravityblock]

Fluorspectrometer (Free Trial Period)

Any idea how much the flourospectrometer would cost ? If one were to do it for personal consumption, I think this would be a must have instrument and might end up costing more than the commercial product anyway. I think it is a good idea to get in on the ground floor of the MLM concept, even though I do not like it myself. But you have to keep in mind that a lot of health products started this way, and it was years before they came down in price
and eventually became mainstream. If you can get in on it these first few years, it would probably be worth it.

FRC

Decomposition of water is a redox reaction. The oxidation reaction occurs at one electrode, and the reduction reaction at the other electrode. Circulating a saline concentration of at least 0.15%, while maintaining a PH of 7.2 to 7.5 with a temperature range of 30 - 100 degrees Fahrenheit and using < 30volts will produce stable redox molecules and will be sufficient to prevent production of toxic chlorates. By staying within these parameters, and experimentally verifying the results of different parameters during the free trial period offered by Thermo Scientific, then there should be very little to worry about. Thermo Scientific has a free one-week trial period to evaluate the Nanodrop fluorspectrometer (they will also pay all shipping costs),

The stable ROS concentration, for example, has a variation of less than 5% from batch to batch and from device to device when the same set of parameters are employed by each. It may even be safe to assume future batches to be free of the unwanted chlorates once the Nanodrop has successfully verified the production of stable redox molecules if the same set of parameters are employed for each batch. Of course it would be better to use the Nanodrop or other similar device to verify the safety of every batch. Maybe with further research, an alternative or extremely cheap method of verifying every batch produced is safe for consumption will be found. The method itself looks simple. The safety of the consumed solution should also be of concern, but I think this is more than likely a scare tactic, especially if the correct procedures, verified parameters, etc., is followed.

Does the FDA test all meat and poultry products for contamination? Of course not. This allows one to argue you shouldn't eat these products because they may not be safe. IMO, the safety of the DIY Redox Molecules at the suggested intake or dosage, which is a relatively small amount, by using verified parameters would be higher than eating meat or poultry, which only a very small percentage is actually tested for contamination.

I created a thread where this can be freely and openly discussed, so I'm a little confused to why you asked the question in this thread.

GB

[FRC]

gravityblock

I am not a member there. Hope it works and can be replicated. I am going to buy the real stuff soon when I get back to work. If it seems to have some benefit, maybe will also try the distribution thing. Where I am now there probably is not much of a market for it (small town). But where I am going back to work there would be.

[toranarod]

Dear Toranarod,

I see you feel free to share your fears, so I would like to address them. From my experience, the product actually IS better than they can claim. On top of that, the US Government and the FDA know all about it! The company is in regular contact with people at FDA. The fact is, this product does not currently fall into ANY CATEGORY of substance that the FDA regulates. It is not a food. It is not a drug. It is not a nutraceutical. In fact, it is the first edible substance ever created that is listed as being "native to the body". It is the very first substance ever proven in laboratory tests to have 0% toxicity. That means it is safer to drink than fresh water!

Please don't be afraid that this product is real and that something extraordinarily good is happening in the world to make it available to you. Just take advantage of it. Perhaps all of your fears WON'T come true. You don't know the future. It's not written yet!

Let me give you an example from my own life. Back in the mid-1990s, I was one of the first people to start making Colloidal Silver Machines so people could make Colloidal Silver for themselves. I was afraid that the FDA would shut me down, so I didn't advertise or try to produce a high profile. Because of my fear, three things happened. 1) I never made very much money, 2) all of my competitors stole all of my innovative design features, and 3) since the FDA never did shut down the industry, I lost a golden opportunity to help more people and make a decent living. In the end, the FDA didn't need to shut me down, because my own fear shut me down.

I vowed I would never do that to myself again. With this product, I have every confidence that it will remain available indefinitely into the future and spread to every corner of the globe to produce the highest possible benefit for everyone.

Peter

hello Peter
I trust you are right. I am going to give the Rodex a good try,
because like you i have a few things that will I hope clear up.
and I want to fund my energy Research.

cheers

[Aaron]

bad advice

The safety of the consumed solution should also be of concern, but I think this is more than likely a scare tactic, especially if the correct procedures, verified parameters, etc., is followed.

THINK GB, the average person is going to use stainless steel, etc.. and will wind up with traces of toxic chromium, etc... in their mix, etc... go ahead and encourage people to screw themselves up - not very smart.

Why don't you study the whole thing before haphazardly recommending that people poison themselves.

Scare tactic? Anyone with business sense knows that a very small
insignificant percentage of anyone that will try to do it themselves has
no bearing on the majority of the population that simply wants to purchase
it. This has ALWAYS been the case.

Look at the history of the radiant battery charging for example - many people want to do it themselves UNTIL it is actually available to buy so people don't have to waste their time - unless they just want to study it but that is a small minority - most people are fairly pragmatic and see it as a waste of time.

Personally, I find it interesting and want to keep studying it but you are talking about a product that someone is to ingest and a product that your knowledge of is extremely minuscule, while inferring that people could make it themselves while saying it is a scare tactic to discourage someone from doing so.

In my book, I mention that if someone wants to experiment with using electrolyzed water for biology to practice on plants first that don't produce food. You really need to walk before you can run and if anyone gets sick from your ill informed advice, you are 100% responsible for them. Very easy for an anonymous person that refuses to put their real name to anything they say.

I have no problem with people discussing the science first but to suggest something that you know nothing about is completely irresponsible.

[Aaron]

Redox Signaling Molecules

To have a responsible discussion about this with people that are actually qualified to discuss it, I started this thread: Redox Signaling Molecules

I have information that others don't and GB's casual references are immature and irresponsible.

To those that have no intent of following responsible advice and insists on trying to drink what they brew up in their garage, use only platinum electrodes or you will poison yourself by changing the chemistry of the solution when iron and other metals come in contact with the solution.

Passivated layers on steel to make them "stainless" are not really stainless, they are only stain resistant until the passivation layer is broken through and it doesn't take much under these circumstances to do that.

Take the advice in my book - if you experiment with anything along these lines, experiment first on plants that do not produce food that you will eat. No matter what you do, you will not replicate a stabilized solution of 16 molecules unless you are "skilled in the art" and the patent apps and patents only give you a direction but do not show you the complete path. They are enough to understand what the final product is to understand the molecules involved and that is enough to understand the biochemical pathways involved in ROS and RS reactions at the cellular level.

Some people can be naive to believe that a cursory overview of an app or patent for this is enough to circumvent 16 years and millions of dollars in research in order to make this happen - that is fine - we all like to feel we can take shortcuts but this is not some motor experiment, this is something we DRINK and this is not a joke. Electric experiments are one thing but people's body's and health are something not to mess around with.

Sorry GB, wake up and give some disclaimers before planting goofball ideas in people's heads that may not know any better. You can claim you are only commenting that they may be using something as a "scare tactic" to keep people from trying to replicate and will claim you are not trying to encourage people to replicate it but posting info on a fluorspectrometer is all telling. You have a clear history revealing your Modus operandi here so we can just let it rest at that. You posted your link at ou and I will cross link to my own threads here.

This applies to simple electrolyzed water even without sodium chloride. George Wiseman's Browns Gas for Health page Sounds like he gave himself pneumonia by inhaling gas produced with lye as an electrolyte. Sodium chloride is not lye but but it can produce very toxic chlorine compounds that can kill your lungs. Mustard gas is a form of chlorine gas. Just use common sense and safety first everyone.

The ONLY thing I would recommend doing as an experiment for starters is electrolyzed water with no electrolyte and using that as a liquid to water plants (that grow no food) with. Jumping straight to electrolyte based solutions for health purposes is like asking someone that is using a AA battery to light an LED to start playing with a million volt Tesla Coil - they aren't the same thing.

I will answer what I can here: Redox Signaling Molecules but will not encourage people to start brewing up poison in their garage. Countless millions of dollars are not going to be invested in something that just anyone can cook up in their spare time as a hobby.

[Savvypro]

My mistake, one of the horses mouths, but whether it is one or more, it is interesting how you appear to be surprised (in your comment above) that someone hasn't followed your same path.

I wasn't assuming that you or anyone has or should follow the same path as I did.

I was surprised because you use sales letters to sell your products (which is what that quote is about) - at least for the digital ones. And then you go and mention Halbert and Abraham, two men who recommend Collier as required reading when learning how to write copy.

There are quite a few different paths in this life - I'm sure you know that.

Yep. + see above...

The thing that gets me is how you are so sure of yourself that it is "executed poorly" because you have a small percentage of people complaining about misleading themselves.

It's not just about the people complaining, if you reread my posts, you'll see that I cover the lead up - as well as the call. E.g: poor expatiation management, multiple messages to multiple markets, call with multiple options - no clear offer.

You prove this point again claiming it was poor, people see one thing and their mind goes into autopilot mode creating all kinds of false realities about the situation instead of just seeing it for what it is. What it is, is a few people complaining about it but out of that you have all the answers.

See previous comment.

Just like the analogy of the three wise men that each are grabbing a different part of an elephant - trunk, leg and tail - each is asked to describe what it is and they are coming to a conclusion based on a small glimpse of the overall picture.

It's more of being too close to the situation to see the problems/issues.

I know what the real results are because I'm corresponding with people by phone and email on a daily basis since then - people that are interested in doing something productive with their lives, not finding things to complain about.

I never once said you wouldn't get any interest in the product or the network marketing opportunity. Your assuming I did.

Not complaining, just offering an objective opinion.

And, most of them are members of Energetic Forum. They're actually appreciative of learning something new about the health breakthrough and they're thankful for the battery secret.

Never said I wasn't, if you reread my posts you'll see that I'm part of the group.

[gravityblock]

THINK GB, the average person is going to use stainless steel, etc.. and will wind up with traces of toxic chromium, etc... in their mix, etc... go ahead and encourage people to screw themselves up - not very smart.

Why don't you study the whole thing before haphazardly recommending that people poison themselves.

Scare tactic? Anyone with business sense knows that a very small
insignificant percentage of anyone that will try to do it themselves has
no bearing on the majority of the population that simply wants to purchase
it. This has ALWAYS been the case.

Look at the history of the radiant battery charging for example - many people want to do it themselves UNTIL it is actually available to buy so people don't have to waste their time - unless they just want to study it but that is a small minority - most people are fairly pragmatic and see it as a waste of time.

Personally, I find it interesting and want to keep studying it but you are talking about a product that someone is to ingest and a product that your knowledge of is extremely minuscule, while inferring that people could make it themselves while saying it is a scare tactic to discourage someone from doing so.

In my book, I mention that if someone wants to experiment with using electrolyzed water for biology to practice on plants first that don't produce food. You really need to walk before you can run and if anyone gets sick from your ill informed advice, you are 100% responsible for them. Very easy for an anonymous person that refuses to put their real name to anything they say.

I have no problem with people discussing the science first but to suggest something that you know nothing about is completely irresponsible.

A person can poison themselves by taking vitamins also, if they don't read and follow directions. Same with many pharmaceutical drugs and other things in life if the neccessary precautions aren't taken into account. The thread I created is to do Research so it can be done properly so it's not limited to a small percentage with "deep pockets". The Educational value may also be of benefit in other areas also.

You just trying to protect your investment. All persons giving testimonials about this product has a financial motivation to give it a thumbs up. It may not be anymore than an expensive saline solution.

GB

[Aaron]

@Savvypro

Savvypro,

I'm not sure they're all so objective but I get your points. Thanks for your comments.

Halbert and Abraham recommend countless people - I don't discount Collier, just that there are many, many people from his era that are recommended by the top dogs in the field and not everyone can or will follow everyone.

And you can see in some of their recommendations that some of the people contradict each other - Elmer Wheeler, sell the sizzle not the steak... and some say you have to sell the steak too, both recommended by the same people. So when they recommend things that contradict each other, I think the lesson is to take the best you can from each - but there are obvious generalities to stick to - you have to simply go with what ever works for you. And everything will be a case by case situation anyway.

Anyway Savvypro, when something gives good results, it is simply not executed poorly - if it was, the results would be proportionate. Documentation beats conversation so the saying goes. But I would absolutely agree that looking at anything from a strict conversion rate, everything has room for improvement. Nothing I have ever done is perfect, if it was, I would have stopped all my efforts years ago because I couldn't get any better.

From a motive of the presentation, the thing I was most excited about is for people to see a Stan Meyer/Xogen/etc... hybrid being used to create something for health that happens to be the most significant breakthrough in cellular biology - in history.

One of the main reasons I've gotten the successes that I've achieved in my ventures is because I remain teachable and am always passionately doing my best to learn from those that have results I want in all areas of life.

[Pamela Vicik-Smith]

I have been following this thread and will like to add my two cents.

First, for disclosure, both I and my husband are using this product. I have also made the decision to sell it after doing my own due deligence and spending hours and hours to research the product and the company online.

There seems to be some concerns here regarding the following three areas: the product itself, the cost of the product, and how the product is currently being sold and marketed.

Before I address these points from my point of view, I will like to point out that I am not a new member to this forum. I am one of the charter members and have been posting for over 4 and a half years. Though I admit, I do not post in the Free Energy section only because I am not well-versed in this area. But my point is, I am not making this post to try to sell something to anyone - I just want to express my ideas.

First about the product itself: though I researched this and found hundreds, if not thousands of testimonials, I wanted to try this product myself and see what results I would get. My husband and I have been using this for over 4 weeks and here is what we have experienced:

I have had a very painful back issue for many years. Anyone can easily search some of my previous posts here and find several references to this. I have had x-rays, MRI's, shots, therapy, treatment from doctors, chiropractors, have tried every alternative healing method I know, and have found no relief. I have even been a guinea pig for many members of this forum who are doing various types of healing modalities, yet nothing has helped with this severe pain.

Normally, I cannot walk or stand more than 5 minutes at a time before this white-hot pain shoots down from my left hip to behind the back of my knee. As part of my job, I attend 6 major trade shows a year that require me to be on my feet for 3 solid days. In order to get thru these days, I usually take 3-5 Aleve during the day and then an additional 1 or 2 before going to bed at nite. The next morning before even getting in the shower, I have to take another.

I just attended another of these trade shows in Chicago 3 weeks ago. At the time I had been using this product for only 10 days and personally, did not expect to see a difference in such a short period of time. However, for the first time ever, I did not need to take a single pain pill the entire three days of the show. My days started at 6am and I did not get back to my hotel each nite until close to 11pm. I had a few twinges throughout the day, but nothing close to the magnitude of how it was before. Since that show, I have not had a single pain med for my back.

My husband has sinus issues, especially in the morning. We have coffee together each morning and since we have been married, he is always extremely congested in the morning. Normally he has to blow his nose about 5-6 times or more. The condition usually clears up later in the day.

When I got home from Chicago, we were having coffee the next morning and I noticed he wasn't congested. I mentioned it to him and he then realized he hadn't been congested all week. It appears that condition has completely left him and is no longer an issue.

There are several other good things we have experienced, but you get the picture.

As far as the cost of the product is concerned, it is about $30 a week. This is less than the cost of eating at McDonalds for lunch every day. I know several people who spend more than this for various vitamins and supplements. But after using this product for over a month, neither my husband nor I want to be without it. We will cut out something else in our budget to afford this.

And finally, to answer some concerns as to how this product is being marketed, this type of marketing has been around for more than 60 years that I know of. Does anyone here have a wife that sells Avon, Mary Kay, Tupperware, Pampered Chef, etc? It is the exact same concept - no difference at all.

Personally, I am very grateful for this product and the business opportunity it presents. Where else can I start my own business for the cost of only one month's supply of the product for personal use and an additional $40?

And there is a 100% no questions asked, end of the bottle, money-back guarantee for anyone who tries the product but feels it is not working for them. So there is absolutely no risk involved.

I hope this information is helpful and will give some of you a different perspective.