One of Bessler's Wheels ?

[freepenguin]

@Jim

Bessler's type wheels whose main source of power is gravity unlikely achieves low COP ratio. That's what I learned so I abandoned those types. The famous model is Leonardo Da Vinci's wheel that has three balls on internal loops. It looks rotate forever. Finding exact weight ratio between the balls and the wheel would be tricky business.

Gravity motors that uses the impulse theory (a trigger and a passive wheel) are actually gravity independent. It should be called 'Inertia motor' or 'Inertia Impulse motor.' Once it picks up the rotating speed, i.e 500 rpm, inertia takes over gravitational pull - static and kinetic friction torque by weight (mass x gravity of Earth). Mass, radius, speed of wheel dictates the total usable energy.

[Jim_L]

@Jim

Bessler's type wheels whose main source of power is gravity unlikely achieves low COP ratio. That's what I learned so I abandoned those types. The famous model is Leonardo Da Vinci's wheel that has three balls on internal loops. It looks rotate forever. Finding exact weight ratio between the balls and the wheel would be tricky business.

Gravity motors that uses the impulse theory (a trigger and a passive wheel) are actually gravity independent. It should be called 'Inertia motor' or 'Inertia Impulse motor.' Once it picks up the rotating speed, i.e 500 rpm, inertia takes over gravitational pull - static and kinetic friction torque by weight (mass x gravity of Earth). Mass, radius, speed of wheel dictates the total usable energy.

DaVinci's is possibkle using 2 weights. It would rely on torque being converted into velocity rather quickly. If not, it would be dead in the water.
Bessler's water wheel has the best potential of all. But you still do not know how it worked.
As such I will be building it to kick my dad's asss back to Norrway. Also, AB Hammer and rlortie use their association with Peter Lindeman to demonstrate their superiority. I have had to tolerate much harassment from them while dealing with cancer and post op complications.
I have seen one idea which Dr. Lindeman allowed to be shown according to rlortie. When the weight swung out, there was no mechnism in place to hold the weight in it's over balanced position. Not possible for it to generate an over balance other wise.
Personally, I think everyone associated with the Arache Build Group has no understanding of this type of behavior.
Myself, I have studied math for a few years with this being the focus. That is why I have a better understanding.

[Jim_L]

Free,
With what I am building, I can discuss specific potential relative to the design.
Such as, if I use 8 12 ounce weights, I can have as an over balance a continuous 24 ounces maximum. Might be able to be more. This is because the weights can work in conjunction with each other.
By doing that, it might be possible to have 36 ounces of over balance on a wheel weighing about 8 pounds. That's a lot any way you look at it. And have yet to see a design with this much potential.
As for myself, I am building based on specific mechanics. I was able to realize what I have about Bessler's work by staying focused on what I was doing. Most people will not follow through on idea's. They usually find some reason they won't work and move on.
With the scissor jack wheel, somebody else originated the idea but was unwilling to work through the road blocks the so called experts put up. I built it and it did not come close to working. But I did not forget about it and later realized that scissors worked well with a design like Mt 25.
As I mentioned before, for energy generation, I think a project like ITER has the greatest potential for success.

Jim

[freepenguin]

@Jim,

I think any devices that produce COP greater than 1 all the time is ingenious and brilliant work. The best of known free energy technologies is to harness ZPE (Zero Point Energy) or vacuum flux.

Scientists predict that one day a palm size device will produce 2kW+ electricity for entire house. Such device has extremely high COP and efficiency with zero maintenance.

FE technologies have to come out. As a tinkerer, I couldn't wait so I started my own journey for free energy like you did or others. What's better than the inventors/builders of aircraft in early 1900s when the Wright brothers succeeded flight, I don't need to worry about being dead or injured during experiments.

I feel I'm at the half of the mountain climb. I found the base camp that I can start from and go back and forth. I've sent few e-mails to inventors. There was no return. Are they working as a double agent? I guess they look like. "Here, I have this wonderful FE device for humanity." Later on, it's suddenly off the scene. I'm willing to spend few hundred dollars for a kit as is not $5,000+ unit.

I can help at a certain level. If you have a known formula, I can write a program to produce theoretical values and graph. I have good understanding of mathematics, classical physics part that I studied for gravity motor in general. There exists mechanical 2D/3D simulation softwares that do the visual simulation, which is an excellent tool for experimenting mechanical devices like the gravity wheel or gravity motor. I'll check out open source software for Linux. I don't have it yet.

Your gravity wheel needs to handle the internal friction among the components, the tendency of equilibrium within the close-loop system. That's what I find out of my head. Other than I have very limited knowledge of mechanical part.

I'm not interest about other FE technologies that uses special elements. It carries the burden of extraction and process of the raw material to the door, cleaner version of nuclear fission after all. I noticed Rossi's cold fusion getting popular lately.

[Jim_L]

Hi freepenguin,
With Bessler, it is something I can afford to work on.
I do have one idea for an FE device but haven't been
able to do any research to find out if it is feasible.
As the tides move up and down, there are tidal surges.
One day I hope to be able to find out if there is much
potential in those surges. It's possible there is not much there
even though a lot of water is being moved or seems to be.
With the design I am working on for Bessler, there is more
than one way it can be tried. For the initial way, I might be able
to do a partial build so you can see the mechanics. I think that
is something that will help everybody with this specific type of
design.

Jim

[freepenguin]

@Jim,

Just imagine you have a machine that runs 24/7 for 365 days without any external power source. It doesn't really matter people call it toy or not practical. You will be one of few people who live ahead of present time.

Have you read a book by Viktor Schauberger? The vortex theory of water/air. I obtained pdf version of his book. If you want to see it, pm me. I'll send to you.

[Cloxxki]

Moving a weight outward on the wheel of course adds torque. Yet with the same vertical room to move, work to be extracted remains the same. It appears that angular work is just as important as offset from the acle.
Where and what is the trick to get a gain from a shifted weight? A feather on a long lever can jack up a skycraperl, but the vertical displacement will be minute.

I've always been fascinated by the math problem of 2 ball rolling hirzontally at the same velocity. One will proceed into a long deep ditch, and roll out the other end. The other will continue as it was. The former, converts some potential into kinetic energy, speed across teh length of the ditch, and converts back again to have the same velicty as it started with. Yet, it covered the distance from push-off till finish faster than the ball that took the shortest, flat route. This principe works only to gain time. A faster reset might be managed. It requires a horizontal path with significant length. If on a lever, it will need to have a sleeve rather than a hole, with a somewhat horizontal guide.
Again, this only wins time to shift a weight. Doesn't add work.
If this a direction of thought, or do you guys actuall know how to gain work from lateral shift without added vertical potential.

[Jim_L]

Moving a weight outward on the wheel of course adds torque. Yet with the same vertical room to move, work to be extracted remains the same. It appears that angular work is just as important as offset from the acle.
Where and what is the trick to get a gain from a shifted weight? A feather on a long lever can jack up a skycraperl, but the vertical displacement will be minute.

I've always been fascinated by the math problem of 2 ball rolling hirzontally at the same velocity. One will proceed into a long deep ditch, and roll out the other end. The other will continue as it was. The former, converts some potential into kinetic energy, speed across teh length of the ditch, and converts back again to have the same velicty as it started with. Yet, it covered the distance from push-off till finish faster than the ball that took the shortest, flat route. This principe works only to gain time. A faster reset might be managed. It requires a horizontal path with significant length. If on a lever, it will need to have a sleeve rather than a hole, with a somewhat horizontal guide.
Again, this only wins time to shift a weight. Doesn't add work.
If this a direction of thought, or do you guys actuall know how to gain work from lateral shift without added vertical potential.

Hi Jan,
If there was one person in this world I was hoping to hear from again, it was you.
As to your last question,
< or do you guys actuall know how to gain work from lateral shift without added vertical potential >

Bessler had 2 different wheels of which both can be demonstrated. The first will be hiswater wheel. I believe that is the one that rotated at 60 rpm and was used as a hoist.
It may take up to 2 weeks to demonstrate the mechanics of the water wheel. It will require my modifying what I have been working on so it is a completely visable mechanical wheel.
If you are familiar with the workj Anthiny Bur has done with scissors, you would know his scissors shot outward quite well with no assistance.
Very nice to hear from you Jan.

Jim

[Jim_L]

@All,
The Mt drawings 20, 24 & 60 best help to illustrate from Bessler's perspective what I am working on.
I will be using the mechanics found in Mt 20 to operate the pumps.
With Mt 24, consider the weights are opening and closing bellows. Mt's 60 & 61 help to illustrate this thought.
I am not sure if I will incorporate the vacuum that Mt 24 sugests.
Here is a link to Mt 61.
Image:Mt 061.gif - BesslerWiki
The outer wheel is configured like a water wheel.
The inner wheel shows bellows or daiphrams. As for H, H can be springs which Bessler said was attached to the weights.
And as any good carpenter back then would have known, that a water wheel develops it's pwer because the water is on the further most point of the wheel.
It could be that Bessler realizsd that if the buckets that held the water in a water wheel were closed like a bellows, then the water could be pumped upward. And this is what I hope to demonstrate.
Mt 66 shows a piston pumping and Mt 67 shows diaphrams filled one one side of the wheel and empty on the opposing side.
It seems there is much to a Bessler wheel.
@freepenguin, the basic math concept is that if 1/2kg has a lever 30cm's in length, it can generate how much force ? Enough to lift 1/2kg 30cm's. And if each section of the wheel is less than 30cm's, then there is a suprlus of force. If you like, I could post a digram with expected movements and weights for you. Then you could tell me what you think. I think there are about 3 different ways to modify this design, possibly 4.
@Jan, One trick Bessler realised is that using a cam, he could use rods to pump the bellows. This would allow him to close two bellows at the same time. This is what created a seal and controlled the flow of the water This would also limit the motion of the levers while allowing them to apply the same force.

@All, a pic showing the start of mating both sides of the demonstration wheel I am building. I think when all is said and done, you will be wondering if Bessler was really smart enough to have thought of this. I would have to believe he was.

Jim

Image:Mt 020.gif - BesslerWiki
Image:Mt 024.gif - BesslerWiki
Image:Mt 060.gif - BesslerWiki
Image:Mt 066.gif - BesslerWiki
Image:Mt 067.gif - BesslerWiki

[Jim_L]

Basic Principle

@All,
I thought I would show the basic premise/reference I am working from.
A is the radius, 32.76cm's. B is the length of the pump/bellows, 25cm's.
And C is the length of the lever, 46.2cm's.
If the mass of the weight and the water are the same, then 1 can be
used as a reference number or value.
If the lever is to land on the hub as illustrated in Mt 20, then it's length
would need to be greater than 25cm's and less than 32.76cm's. This
would allow the water to be pumped to the next bellow or pump.
If the lever is longer as shown, then the force is 1.85 times greater than
the mass of water.
What would need to be considered is the movement of the weight on the lever,
how much energy/potential would be lost due to it's imbalance, if any ?
And that my friends is the basic concept.

Jim

[Jim_L]

@All,
I can see why people avoid builds of this type.
There quite a few people who will diswcuss Bessler Ad Nauseum but no more.
I can see why.
With what I know now, I would have to sart the build over. And not having a shop to work in, that does not make much sense.

Jim

[freepenguin]

@Jim,

Here is a mechanical simulation software.
Algodoo
The price is affordable. $33 USD.

I'm checking on other Open Source softwares too.

[Jim_L]

@Jim,

Here is a mechanical simulation software.
Algodoo
The price is affordable. $33 USD.

I'm checking on other Open Source softwares too.

Hi freepenguin,
The software looks interesting.
Myself, I have a head injury and other medical issues.
As such, I do try to limit what I do. With what I have
worked on with Bessler's wheel, they are things I have
much experience with. Learning new things is a problem
for me.
I thought I would mention a trick Bessler knew that his clock
making helped him to know and understand.
To close to different points, the top of one bellows and the
bottom of another, it takes clock work. Something like an hour
and a minute hand. This way, if the top of one bellows is open
12.7mm's and the bottom of another is open 25.4mm's, then using
gearing found in a clock will allow both to be closed at the same time without interferencing with each other.
With this trick, the tether needs to be attached to the outside of the clock face. This will prevent loss of force from the levered weight.
Tomorrow, I see my doctor again. If they can control my pain, then I will be able to relax and move onto other more satisfying things.
It is the trick with the clock that allowed Bessler to have the success he did.
After all, it is all a matter of timing.

Jim

[Jim_L]

@All,
I am going to try a simple way I thought of. It is something Bessler shows in one of his drawings.
As I will be trying 4 pumps, it might be what Bessler considered a cross section.
And if it works, then there is much more that can be done with this type of wheel.

Jim

[Jim_L]

@All,
With what I have been working on, a 4 weighted wheel might not work.
Bessler did suggest it might.
How ever, I may demonstrate 2 different ways that pumps can be operated and how some of Bessler's clues fit this build.

Jim