The Magnet Kicker Thread

[Slider2732]

Here we go with something hopefully of interest, of worth and which *could* get us to an OU position by a radically simple method.

It's based on the Magnet Kicker that mariuscivic posted a short while ago on YouTube.
Here's his video: ‪The magnet kicker‬‏ - YouTube
The circuit diagram is within his video and it really is just about the most elegant and simple method of spinning a rotor around. The base info, is that you use a triggering coil to switch the transistor by having it energized by a passing magnet, the transistor then powers the driving coil and nothing else is needed !

My recent endeavours have been to explore the simplicity, trial different coils, work through the best speed to power needs, to extend this principle into a possible COP>1 machine.
The intention is to create a machine that is built from junk. All components used so far have been from old PC monitors and PC fans. Magnets have been derived from hard drives or CD-Rom drives. Something that anyone could build and if you use a CRT monitor, will have usable components right in front of your eyes !

Findings so far include -
The triggering coil can be very very small. Why pump 6V @400mA into a transistor to switch it ?
Many coils will run the circuit, from multi-strand to single strand, from thumb width to pencil lead thin.
All coils will display a constant speed of rotor rotation, no matter what the voltage is.
A MOSFET can replace a transistor and need no resistor or anything else, currently I use an IRF630.
A 7 stranded multi-strand coil will run the circuit as far down as 4.5V - at exactly the same rotor rotation speed as 12V.
Some trigger coils will sing with a resonance, which may facilitate wave data acquisition.
Coils can be moved around the perimeter of the rotor by hand and not affect the running.
Coils can be moved outward or inward to the rotor and the speed remains exactly as before.
Extra generator coils around the rotor do not affect the constant speed running until very close.
The rotor will exhibit an approximate 2Hz hum while running.
A powered coil will hum in the hand when held near to a magnet.
Perhaps the wildest finding - a toroid coil of 7 strands will power the rotor when mounted sideways !

My idea - is to generate power from the passing magnets, such that there is enough to power the rotor. A load may be present or not, no tuning is required, as any extra energy is used by the circuit, displaying no change at all in rotor speed.
The rotation speed can be easily known, the power required to run the machine can be easily known, the variables for self powering are then known.

Here are my videos so far:
Basic replication - ‪Magnet Kicker - replication‬‏ - YouTube
8 different coils Mega-Test - ‪Magnet Kicker - 8 coil Mega-Test‬‏ - YouTube
Sideways multi-strand toroid - ‪Sideways toroid runs Magnet Kicker pulse motor‬‏ - YouTube

I would like to see replicatons of the original and then we can move forward with coil sizings etc and backend simple circuitry to actually make these self power.
I need your help too, because I have little in the way of test equipment. My oscilloscope was fried with HV experiments and only a Sperry SP-6A analog meter is available for voltage/current tests. I also have no RPM meter, but some of you guys do

Good idea ?

[Slider2732]

I'd like to extend a thanks to imtotob and Steve220, for their idea to start a thread about this.
Both chaps independently considered it a worthwhile topic

[Slider2732]

This evenings experiments threw up some high strangeness, at least to my understandings.

A different Magnet Kicker was built up, based on a clear cassette box from other pulse motor experiments. The magnets are smaller on this and it's been found that the circuit will run at 3V, by using a 10 strand multi-strand coil. The coil has come directly from a PC monitor.
9 of the strands are connected as described in the Muller Generator thread.
The remaining 10th strands ends are connected to an LED.

Enough energy is created within the coil at 3V, to power the resistor limited LED. It's connection is through a 1N4148 diode to the negative leg and the positive leg has a 100ohm resistor on it.

Increasing the running voltage dims the LED, further by each increment of the wall adapter. The LED is brightest at 3V...throughout all voltages the rotor spins at exactly the same speed.
On connecting the analog meter (on 50mA setting) to the positive power supply and to the Drain pin of the MOSFET, a reading of 5mA is measured, but, the LED goes out.
The rotor still remains spinning at exactly the same speed.

Here's the video and a pic of the setup:

‪Magnet Kicker - High strangeness‬‏ - YouTube

[totoalas]

From Nothng to Something

Hi Slider
just want to show you my collection ready to explore on your thread
all came from scrap which people simply just throw away but for us is goldmine as you say


Will make a better rig for my rotor / vcr head bearing
Dont Know if its worth while to crush the magnetite core glue it up again and use in my muller hope Kone is looking into this
Google Slider and you have spare parts on your doorstep lol
cheers

totoalas



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[Mark]

Hi Slider

I've been playing around with something very similiar for the last few days. I have the classic 3-pole energizer that Rick sells on his web site. I am using the single wire generator coil that is supplied in the kit as my trigger coil with no core in it. I put that coil in the bottom slot and advance the timing as far as it will go. I use one of the single strand power coils as my drive coil with a core of the welding rods. I am using a mjl21194 transistor, no resistors or diodes at all. The single transistor is the only electrical part other than the battery.

I do have 3 Lights of America 1.5 watt led bulbs hooked up in parrallel to the output (hooked directly to each end of the power coil to burn off the bemf or spike) I am currently using 12 volts @ 50ma or .6 watts input. The rotor speed is just under 4800rpm's. The 3 bulbs are pretty bright I have them in a bathroom ficture hanging above my computer and can easily see at night time at my desk to work.

If I hook a FWBR and a 10uf250 volt cap up to the output with the bulbs the cap charges to a little over 100 volts.

One thing that was interesting to me is at first I only used 1 light bulb but as I added 2 and then 3 bulbs the rotor speed actually increased.

This is the most light and fastest rotor speed I have ever gotten with only 50ma of input. And this is THE SIMPLEST setup I have ever used.

Mark

P.S. With my setup I need to spin my rotor by hand up to 700rpm before it will speed up under power.

[minoly]

Hi Skider

I've been playing around with something very similiar for the last few days. I have the classic 3-pole energizer that Rick sells on his web site. I am using the single wire generator coil that is supplied in the kit as my trigger coil with no core in it. I put that coil in the bottom slot and advance the timing as far as it will go. I use one of the single strand power coils as my drive coil with a core of the welding rods. I am using a mjl21194 transistor, no resistors or diodes at all. The single transistor is the only electrical part other than the battery.

I do have 3 Lights of America 1.5 watt led bulbs hooked up in parrallel to the output (hooked directly to each end of the power coil to burn off the bemf or spike) I am currently using 12 volts @ 50ma or .6 watts input. The rotor speed is just under 4800rpm's. The 3 bulbs are pretty bright I have them in a bathroom ficture hanging above my computer and can easily see at night time at my desk to work.

If I hook a FWBR and a 10uf250 volt cap up to the output with the bulbs the cap charges to a little over 100 volts.

One thing that was interesting to me is at first I only used 1 light bulb but as I added 2 and then 3 bulbs the rotor speed actually increased.

This is the most light and fastest rotor speed I have ever gotten with only 50ma of input. And this is THE SIMPLEST setup I have ever used.

Mark

P.S. With my setup I need to spin my rotor by hand up to 700rpm before it will speed up under power.

Mark, sounds awesome!
I would love to see that in action - vid?
do you have the trigger coil lowered directly on the magnets with the smallest distance possible?
what is the ohm/Henry of your power coil? we have two kits the first one we purchased w/in the first month they came out. the power coils were 8.2ish the second one 1 year later the power coils were 6.2. obviously the 6.2 spins faster and charges faster because of the increased current.

The energizer self servo's the load. this is one of the beauties of the ckt. even without the diodes. your lights of america prefers AC so it does not require the 1n4007. I wonder what if any difference there might be adding a 1n914 emitter to base or even a small .001 cap. I'm going to have to try this out... maybe I'll even shift my experiments toward running a small fast monopole in the garage hooked up to all the lights in the house @ 50mA as a goal - beats charging batteries.
thanks Mark,

Patrick

[Mark]

I've been playing with things for about 2 weeks just going after speed and low amp draw. I was using a mpsa06 for quite a while. It triggers nicely and has low amp draw. Unfotunetly they fry easy (I have about 30 of them still). I was using adjustable cores on both tigger and power coils and changing base resistances. Basically lots of tuninng. I was buring trannies and the diode from emmiter to collector. I eventually ended up with no other parts except that mjl21194. Who would of guessed that, lol.

My power coil shows 11.1 ohms but my meter has been shocked to death a few times. I havent modified the frame at all so my coils are all mounted at factory highth. The trigger coil is a little bit farther away because it is advanced.

Actually I maybe retarding the timing. I am moving my trigger coil so that the magnet passes the trigger coil before it passes the power coil. Is that advancing the timing or retarding it?

[minoly]

I've been playing with things for about 2 weeks just going after speed and low amp draw. I was using a mpsa06 for quite a while. It triggers nicely and has low amp draw. Unfotunetly they fry easy (I have about 30 of them still). I was using adjustable cores on both tigger and power coils and changing base resistances. Basically lots of tuninng. I was buring trannies and the diode from emmiter to collector. I eventually ended up with no other parts except that mjl21194. Who would of guessed that, lol.

My power coil shows 11.1 ohms but my meter has been shocked to death a few times. I havent modified the frame at all so my coils are all mounted at factory highth. The trigger coil is a little bit farther away because it is advanced.

Actually I maybe retarding the timing. I am moving my trigger coil so that the magnet passes the trigger coil before it passes the power coil. Is that advancing the timing or retarding it?

You have it right - that would be advancing the trigger because your are moving it toward the direction of where the spin is coming from. this makes it so that when the power coil fires, it fires closer to on top of the magnet, which causes the motor to become a repulsion motor rather than an attraction motor, which is one reason the speed increases when you advance the trigger. if you can get your trigger coil closer to the rotor, you will not have to spin it 700rpm before it gets going, but then you might end up having to put a resistor to the base???

11.1ohms, interesting - I might have to investigate that further.

I don't have it completely setup yet, been out and about w/ hydro races, swimming, now blue angels are on their way. maybe later tonight...
Thanks,

Patrick

[Slider2732]

@ totoalas
I do indeed have a lot of this junk lol. Most is from Clean Up Week's when we lived in Mnnesota. I gave away a bunch of computer parts some time back though, before I knew of their worth in cost savings.
You have a cool collection there on that table
In fact, some of those items remind me of Ed Leedskalnin PMH's...which i've always thought need to be incorporated to pulse motors. That whole thing about putting a coil with LED on the end onto a magnet and pulling away quickly..no power but yet the LED will light.

@Mark - appears that you are further along than me
I'm delighted to hear about your findings.
The coreless trigger is something for me to try today, there's hardly any drag from the tiny ferrite pieces anyway, but zero drag would be preferred.
Advancing and retarding can be done 'on the fly'...once the rotor starts, you can move the powering coil fully around the perimeter of the rotor by hand or on a track or something and it'll still run, same exact speed.

@minoly - You guys will be a respected asset here
AC mains caps and little '101' types will be tried over here today too. The only additions should be those that strongly increase the running, but we can certainly bring in tricks from other recent builds. I like the idea of the natural interactions doing the work.
Were the Blue Angels coming in for an air show ? If so, was Fat Albert there ? Jets and rocket assisted planes would keep me away from the work table !

A practical use of this simple method is right there in the workbench lighting at such small power requirements. 120V @ 200mA now seems like dirty power to light just one 'Energy Saver'.
If we can get the system defined regarding coil types, positions and most efficient rotor/magnet sizes then much more opens up too..

[Mark]

@ Slider the rotor speed, current draw and ouput are all variable depending on the timing on my setup. The load on my setup makes a huge difference in rotor speed. If the output is rectified and a charge battery is connected the speed drops by about 50%.

@ Minoly if I connect a diode from emitter to base the rotor starts to slow down, I also burnt a few up before I got to this point and just removed it. I also tried to hook up an ac cap but that kills the output. Maybe I hooked it up wrong.

With the limited amount of testing that I have done so far with this particular setup (8 or 9 one hour runs) my battery has bounced back to where I started everytime. I'll let you know how things stand after another 10 runs or so.

Mark

[Slider2732]

Here's something profound:

We don't need a trigger coil !

The Magnet Kicker will run with the trigger coil itself well away from the circuit.
That makes sense of why the driving coil can be moved around all over the rotor and it still runs.
Whether this result only applies to the 10 strand multi-strand coil is unknown, but it's amazing to see.

Am uploading the video and will post the link ASAP

[Zooty]

Here's something profound:

We don't need a trigger coil !

The Magnet Kicker will run with the trigger coil itself well away from the circuit.
That makes sense of why the driving coil can be moved around all over the rotor and it still runs.
Whether this result only applies to the 10 strand multi-strand coil is unknown, but it's amazing to see.

Am uploading the video and will post the link ASAP

In your latest video, the one labelled "Magnet Kicker - High strangeness" , how are you taking the amp draw without putting your meter in series? Are you measuring voltage across a 1ohm resistor? Also, the LED will go out if the flyback from the coil has a better path to go down like your meter. I have seen this many times on an SSG circuit.

[Slider2732]

Yeah, just a rough and ready way of measuring the differences across different coils.
The next video was supposed to be about pointers to efficiences and inefficiences of different trigger coils, with the same type of measuring used - 1 wire to Positive supply and 1 to the Drain pin of the MOSFET. A standard JT toroid of 12 turns bi-filar on a 1/2" toroid will run, but reads 150mA, measuring with that method, against a nice clean single strand ferrite cored coil measuring 4mA.
It won't be right or exact, I know that, but the method works. Definites are where you guys are hopefully able to help.
I apologise again for non exacting procedures and acknowledge them.
Thanks for the tip on the LED
*Edit* Hang on a second though, the LED isn't connected to anything at all except the strand. The strand has no connection to anything except the LED.

Here's the video showing no trigger coil being needed.
I'm all ears as to why this works.

‪Magnet Kicker - No trigger coil is needed !‬‏ - YouTube


Pic of the setup, showing the rotor spinning but the trigger coil far away from the rotor.

[minoly]

Ok, I’m back, what a day.. yes faaat albert was here.. some sweet sounds thundering around the lake today

We are only able to remove the trigger coil if we have the LED in place, w/o the LED it will not self-oscillate. I think it’s feeding back to the loop.

Mark this is very cool, we separated the trigger long ago, and long ago we removed the EB diode, but we never did both at the same time. This spins out of control fast. And still charges well. We are not able to light the neon or any high voltage string of LED’s, it does light an incandescent bulb at a large cost on the front end. We are only running at 3volts. We have never gone this fast w/ 3 volts.

Here is a vid showing a small 3volt primary charging a 12 volt 3.6Ah w/ scope shots. Very cool double back h wave with a negative spike at the battery ring. We’ll keep plugging away, thanks for sharing…

‪No E-B diode separate trigger mod‬‏ - YouTube


Patrick

[Zooty]

Yeah, just a rough and ready way of measuring the differences across different coils.
The next video was supposed to be about pointers to efficiences and inefficiences of different trigger coils, with the same type of measuring used - 1 wire to Positive supply and 1 to the Drain pin of the MOSFET. A standard JT toroid of 12 turns bi-filar on a 1/2" toroid will run, but reads 150mA, measuring with that method, against a nice clean single strand ferrite cored coil measuring 4mA.
It won't be right or exact, I know that, but the method works. Definites are where you guys are hopefully able to help.
I apologise again for non exacting procedures and acknowledge them.
Thanks for the tip on the LED
*Edit* Hang on a second though, the LED isn't connected to anything at all except the strand. The strand has no connection to anything except the LED.

Here's the video showing no trigger coil being needed.
I'm all ears as to why this works.

‪Magnet Kicker - No trigger coil is needed !‬‏ - YouTube


Pic of the setup, showing the rotor spinning but the trigger coil far away from the rotor.

Nice results. There is however always an explanation With the LED being connected to a separate coil not connected to anything else in the circuit is the same way the trifilar SSG worked. If you don't collect the spike from the collector on the power coil and there is a load on another separate coil, the spike will transfer through that coil instead. The positioning of the trigger coil is interesting but i bet if you disconnect it while the motor is running, it will stop. There is probably some feedback from the collapsing field going through the coil to the base of the transistor. One way to test is to disconnect the base while the unit is running. Can you recheck the current draw by passing the current through the meter the normal way?