The solar flashlight & muller/romero

[142857]

Wanna say i'm sorry for offending everyones sensitive beliefs over in the muller thread.

I want to say that I started hanging and reading here sometime ago, some of the insights into the things i've built have been very helpful....I respect some of the brains here. I generally like this place. Lots of interesting stuff here.

However,
The blind religious like faith of some of you is misplaced. If one can't converse with you unless he/she "believes" is stupid, it's not conducive to science.

When a theory or prototype is presented in any form, it IS each of our responsibility to try to blow as many holes in it as we can...right?

Some may not like some of the things I say.
that's ok
please prove me wrong
just don't get all hurty hurt because you BELIEVE I'm wrong.

I have never flamed anybody in here.
I realize you are used to the occasional troll or troublemaker so I'll give you all the benifit of the kneejerk reaction. But geeze, get over it.

I have no evil agenda....I'm just a "free" energy athiest.



Here is my hypothosis:

You can not power a flashlight with a solar cell powered by the flashlight.
No matter how good/efficient/powerfull, either your light or your solar cell is.

Magnets and coils follow suite. Gravity wheels follow suite.....in fact any series of components will follow suite.

there.


That's where we differ.....
That's not a personal issue, and I would appreciate you guys not friggin taking it so dang personal.

I think the horse is dead.....but you can keep up CPR ....... I might laugh at you from time to time......you can tell me I dunno what I'm talking about and the horse will live.

Too many people too touchy.

[Xenomorph]

Your hypothesis is flawed. You oversimply and equalize totally different
physical processes.
The mathematical analogy to your hypothesis would be:

2+1 is 3
therefore 5+1 and 6+1 and 7+1 are also 3

[142857]

Your hypothesis is flawed. You oversimply and equalize totally different
physical processes.
The mathematical analogy to your hypothesis would be:

2+1 is 3
therefore 5+1 and 6+1 and 7+1 are also 3

I think you might be overcomplicating a simple law and looking endlessly for the loophole that would allow one to MAKE energy.

7+1 is 8

energy can be juggled and transfered and moved around and changed....

...make some?

exactly why isn't that "simple".


Ask yourself this......imagine the flashlight and solar cell.......why would that never work reguardless of the components?

I'll bet when you figure that out it'll be exactly the same answer as to why it doesn't work with magnets and coils....or magnets and magnets.....or gravity and weights.

on the most fundamental simple level you will not siphon water out of a bowl into it's self.

it's all the same reason

Conservation of Energy......I don't think anyone or any natural process has refuted it yet.




PS. All the uproar....this "arguement"......while I may seem to be aggrivated with it......I'm really not.

Ultimately it's the most fun I've ever had on this board. Sorry for anyone I upset while work was slow
Cheers.

PSS
I still say that a magnet cannot CREATE kinetic energy.

[Xenomorph]

There is one big denominator for the controversy that you seem to have with overunity research.

You keep insisting on the fact that a magnet CREATES energy
IT DOES NOT!

A Solar panel TRANSFORMS 2 different energy types.
A wind mill TRANSFORMS 2 different energy types.

Replace CREATE with TRANSFORM in all your arguments and there is no controversy. Simple as that.

2nd. It's all about where you define the borders of your SYSTEM !
If i draw the border of the solar panel system exactly on the physical bounding box of the panel, then you EXCLUDE the source of the energy that gets transformed. It would indeed APPEAR as if the solar panel CREATED the energy.

Overunity is all about OPENING your system, so the source is included.
Then the law of energy conservation DOES hold.

Where does an electron get energy from? It doesn't create it's energy itself. INCLUDE THE QUANTUM SPACE !!!!!!!!!!

Quantum space INPUTS energy into OU systems (It has an enormous energy value, enough to power the universe). As long as you EXCLUDE it, you will have to conclude that energy got created instead of transformed.

Let that sink a bit.

[142857]

There is one big denominator for the controversy that you seem to have with overunity research.

You keep insisting on the fact that a magnet CREATES energy
IT DOES NOT!

A Solar panel TRANSFORMS 2 different energy types.
A wind mill TRANSFORMS 2 different energy types.

Replace CREATE with TRANSFORM in all your arguments and there is no controversy. Simple as that.

2nd. It's all about where you define the borders of your SYSTEM !
If i draw the border of the solar panel system exactly on the physical bounding box of the panel, then you EXCLUDE the source of the energy that gets transformed. It would indeed APPEAR as if the solar panel CREATED the energy.

Overunity is all about OPENING your system, so the source is included.
Then the law of energy conservation DOES hold.

Where does an electron get energy from? It doesn't create it's energy itself. INCLUDE THE QUANTUM SPACE !!!!!!!!!!

Quantum space INPUTS energy into OU systems (It has an enormous energy value, enough to power the universe). As long as you EXCLUDE it, you will have to conclude that energy got created instead of transformed.

Let that sink a bit.

you're reading too fast Xeno.....I NEVER stated anybody could CREATE any energy.

I NEVER stated a magnet could create any kind of energy.....in fact my whole entire arguement is completely the other side of the fence.

I am also aware of the need to include the "source"

that's how it got started.

for a muller to "self run" is impossible, as, there is no source.

A muller with a solar panel to make up the diff .... i can see that. then there is a "fule" supply or source.

MAGNETS DO NOT MAKE ENERGY


I AM NOT 142857 FROM YOUTUBE

on youtube I am 50lbhead, always have been....

[Xenomorph]

In saying "There is no source", you automatically exclude it.

Magnetism is by far not entirely understood (at least not by non-military popular science).
just as Radioactivity was not at all understood in 1500 BC.

The source is the quantum space. It is possible to tap it, just as
subatomic particles do. This is the central focus of OU research.

If you refuse to look at the quantum physical aspects of energy transformations, then you certainly won't ever understand them,
but that is what OU researchers are striving to do.

The you could as well go ahead and doubt that the earth is round (compared to being a disc).

[142857]

oh yeah, John Bedini's Jesus energy. You just have to believe in it enough to, umm keep tinkering with it.....then it'll work.


I'm by no means saying that you can't tap the aether or the quantum foam or whatever you wanna call it....

I will suggest that when you do....it will be with a very specialized device that allows it

There is energy in the quantum foam....There is energy in the sun too, but you can't access it with a magnet....you need the receptor ie the solar cell or the mirror aray and a boiler/turbine.

Why is it assumed that a magnet/coil is the receptor required to tap into this etherial energy?

I think it's gonna take somthing a lil mo Hi Tech.

A crystal might hold some promise.......

[scratchrobot]

oh yeah, John Bedini's Jesus energy. You just have to believe in it enough to, umm keep tinkering with it.....then it'll work.


I'm by no means saying that you can't tap the aether or the quantum foam or whatever you wanna call it....

I will suggest that when you do....it will be with a very specialized device that allows it

There is energy in the quantum foam....There is energy in the sun too, but you can't access it with a magnet....you need the receptor ie the solar cell or the mirror aray and a boiler/turbine.

Why is it assumed that a magnet/coil is the receptor required to tap into this etherial energy?

I think it's gonna take somthing a lil mo Hi Tech.

A crystal might hold some promise.......

Maybe we should use a crystal core in our coils

I think it is assumed that a magnet/coil is the receptor because with them you can convert energy to motion and back. In that process one can do things to manipulate the process and maybe get strange effects that gets extra energy. I don't know how to experiment with crystals, why do you think they hold promise?

Regards,
scratchrobot

[dragon]

Overunity is a misconception - it assumes you are getting more out than you put in. It would be more proper to say your device is producing an activity in excess of the known input, or that your calculations of how the energy being used is incorrect.

If you take a rubber ball and raise it to a height of 10ft then let it go it will bounce. If the ball is 80% efficient it will raise itself to a height of 8ft, the next bounce 6.4ft, next 5.12, next 4ft and finally after 5 bounces it would have raised itself 26ft total or 2.65 times that of the initial input. Most likely would have continued on another 5 bounces raising the total even higher.

This is "NOT" overunity, it is conservation. We are simply moving from potential to kinetic, using the same energy over and over again. Call it recycling. Energy cannot be created or destroyed but it can be used over and over again.

Tesla used the word "activity", he would hammer the input primary with a huge blast of amperage and the circuit would "ring" for a certain amount of time before hitting it again. This would create an "activity" that far exceeded the input. Like tapping a bell and letting it ring. It appeared to be more energy than was put into it but in reality it was the same energy being used over and over again.

Obviously, the solar panel and light in a closed loop would be extremely inefficient in converting the energies even if the bulb had the proper UV qualities your still working with a solar device that is poor at best in converting the energies. Probably not a good analogy.

Do I believe "overunity" is possible? Absolutely not. Do I believe you can recycle energy to a point that would create an activity in excess of it's input? You bet.

[MonsieurM]

Maybe we should use a crystal core in our coils

I think it is assumed that a magnet/coil is the receptor because with them you can convert energy to motion and back. In that process one can do things to manipulate the process and maybe get strange effects that gets extra energy. I don't know how to experiment with crystals, why do you think they hold promise?

Regards,
scratchrobot

FYI:

INVENTION - Piezomagentic Induction

[Farmhand]

I think this is a reasonable demonstration of a rotating magnetic field that continues for a long time after all power is removed and the current meter on the negative (return ) line says zero.

The toroid is ringing for several hours after turning it off. I can take a very small amount of power to light an LED for a while while the ring errmm (rings).

AlternateFarmhand1's Channel - YouTube

This is from the secondary of my Converter. The video shows it continueing with no power.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I suppose I agree with Dragon, this is continued "Activity"

Tesla tech 1 unbeleivers 0 .

The fact that the waveform can be pulled down with a load but returns to a higher amplitude again says it all.

Continued resonance is extracting energy from the environment. Hot dang who would have guessed it.

So far I cannot see it any other way. But I won't say I am 100 % correct. Because I don't think anyone should.

If you guys really want a lenzless motor or dynamo, study Tesla's work on high potential lighting and polyphase currents.

The inventions, researches and writings of Nikola Tesla, with special reference to his work in polyphase currents and high potential lighting : Martin, Thomas Commerford, 1856-1924 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

There are a few ways to beat up on Mr Lenz in there.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

142857, I agree with very many of you're comments. You really do you make a lot of sense. But I don't think comparing a flashlight running from it's own light to coils integrating or capturing or harvesting energy is valid.

We all tend to skew things toward our own belief's. You have to "believe" that when you flick the light switch the light will come on or why would you do it. We must try do some things we do not necessarily think could or would happen to find out for sure.

I agree we should be open to scientific analysis, but that cannot be done over the internet by looking at a video. However those of us who are unencumbered by exsisting theory or aquired belief's still post video's showing things we think are interesting. I do it so that maybe if there is truely something interesting or useful happening a more educated person with an open mind might, if interested, ask some details or put forward thier explanations. I welcome it. But if I don't agree with a comment I don't agree. No big deal it doesn't mean much if anyone agree's with anyone else what matters is what is and what isn't.

I agree a flashlight cannot run itself from it's own light output. Or from a conversion of the emitted light only back to electrical energy.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Ok I see some numbers in posts above. Here is some food for thought.

1+1=3, how is that possible you say ? Or did you just say this guy is nuts ?

As a mathamatical equasion it is wrong. No argument there. But when applied to conditions or states things can be different. Say i take one condition and add it to another condition to get a third condition.

That can be 1+1=3 the third condition could possibly include much more than what is in condition 1 and 2 just added together numerically or in mass. Kinetic energy is one thought on that one.

Pertetual motion is in one sense impossible and yet in another sense it is a universal, or an axiom, nothing is motionless ever.

And even wind energy comes mainly or entirely from the sun.
But where does the suns energy come from ?

Is the sun a nuclear fusion reaction or a plasma discharge ?

Cheers

[dragon]

It would seem as soon as you wind a coil it begins to ring at it's natural resonance ( all things do ). It doesn't need to be forced by an external circuit.

The first scope shot (self exciting.bmp ) is of a high inductance coil that is being excited by an earth ground only. The second (Ring down.bmp) is another high inductance coil being hit hard and allowed to use up all it's energy in the ring down then hit again. Lastly, if you add feed back at the right time you can get the energy to accumulate (DS0002.jpg )...

I would say there is enough evidence to conclude that the energy activity in a coil can be much higher than the actual input required to drive it. A simple parallel LC circuit at resonance creates an impedance of infinite value, only using from the input what it needs to cover losses. Yet within the tank the current can build to a point it could burn up the inductor.

[142857]

I got a grip on ringing coils...
This has little to do with what anybody in the muller thread are doing.


If someone there had suggested they were trying to access the aether with the muller....I may not have "believed" it would work but I could respect the avenue at least a little.

However, if they were going to "run" this thing from the resonant energy inherant to the coil.....well.....they got a little ahead of themselves.

The idea of using X watts through a coil to spin a wheel in front of more coils in hopes of 'making' an output exceed X......I'm sorry but that's why the flashlight and solar panel doesn't work too. It can't. There is no excess energy.
If I had a ringing coil with enough output or a crystal cell/batt or even a windmill attached to my flashlight, I would be able to light it and shine it into my solar cell and use what I get off the solar cell to add back to what my light was drawing from my windmill......I still didn't do anything amazing....and I know that's over simplistic(imagine whatever super high tech flashlights and solar panels you like) but simplistic or not you always run into the same obstacles.

@Xeno
I think we understand magnets more than you want to admitt.....I think people really really want to attribute some possible yet unknown 'magic' to them. We hope that somehow, reguardless of all the experiments we've done ourselves and contrary to the evidence we have that maybe, just maybe it's holding a secret power at it's heart that we just have not found yet.