Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, I understand your perspective farmhand.
If people want a lentzless generator that powers a load just fine and does not slow down when under load.
Then I suggest building an ecklin type flux gate generator.

I built one awhile back that worked very well, I used a dual rotors with flat steel pieces 1/4" thick, 6 on each rotor, that sandwiched the coil/core and neo magnet.

This steel flux gate completed the flux path between the separate coil/core and the neo magnet generating good output power, without slowing the motor at all.
Would it self run, maybe.
Though point is, it had no lentz drag from zero rpm on up.
peace love light
tyson

[Allen Burgess]

Output

Quote from Farmhand:

Is the point to get electrical output or just to spin a rotor really fast ?

Counterpoint:

The Lenz propulsion coil does not have to deliver the output. It would work better to generate the output from a seperate lower impedence coil of thicker windings and higher amperage. Someone pointed out that Thane Heins wraps the two kinds of coils around the same core; The high voltage thin wire shorted one to motor the rotor, and a second thicker wire wrap to slow it down with Lenz generated output of lower voltage and increased current. Two coils in one!

[Farmhand]

Quote from Farmhand:

Is the point to get electrical output or just to spin a rotor really fast ?

Counterpoint:

The Lenz propulsion coil does not have to deliver the output. It would work better to generate the output from a seperate lower impedence coil of thicker windings and higher amperage. Someone pointed out that Thane Heins wraps the two kinds of coils around the same core; The high voltage thin wire shorted one to motor the rotor, and a second thicker wire wrap to slow it down with Lenz generated output of lower voltage and increased current. Two coils in one!

Yes I'm aware of the two coils in one, but I'm wondering how that won't just take it back to square one but with more wire and complexity.

My gripe is the full picture is never given even though OU is claimed by some. If a scope shot is shown from the high impedance coil when shorting and not. And from the low impedance coil when shorted and not would give a better picture. Also showing the input power and the light bulb load, we should be able to see the RPM on the scope enough to see it speed up and slow.

The wave form should show what is happening as far as the output and the high impedance coil are concerned when shorted or loaded. What's happening on the scope when the effect is seen, is the question.

Also the input power difference between Thane's way of lighting a bulb and the normal low speed way of lighting the bulb would be good, the low speed way should be done in a way that is suited to the regular way of doing it too, not done with coils built for the high speed operation. In other words a generator of average efficiency. Most of us have an idea of what it takes to light a bulb of a certain wattage the regular way at average efficiency. We need to beat the efficiency of the regular way surely, or what is the point.

The maximum output possible from a given input level should also be compared between the two ways.

After all it is supposed to be more efficient than other ways, not just more efficient than a setup built for high speed run slowly. Incandescent bulbs take some lighting, thats for sure, I don't find it easy at all.

The way I see it we pay to make the sine wave which is the potential output. If we flatten the sine wave there is no potential output so we kind of kill the output doing that, which defeats the purpose of the whole exercise.

The only reason I can see to use an electrical generator from an electrical source would be if a higher voltage is needed than the source voltage or a different type of current/s, such as AC from a battery source, or 60 volts DC from a 12 volt source or some such thing.

Cheers

P.S. Overunityguide's video's are very good because they show just how much more power it require's to spin the rotor that much faster to get the saving. A small saving made from a large increase in input power. Seems to be heading the wrong way.

If low impedance coils are added to generate power that will cause drag and probably negate any savings made.

[Shadesz]

Side note

I'm thinking the speed (RPM) required for acceleration is related to the cores hysteresis loop. I have not yet made any conclusions as to the type of loop we want. Do we want a square loop, a flat loop, an open loop, a gradual slope, etc?

Collecting data would be great!

What we would need is a gauss measurement on your rotor magnets (can be obtained form the manufacture), the size of those magnets, how far those magnets are from the core, how far they are from the coil, how heavy the core weighs by itself, and exactly what the core is... IE, the link to actual product (that way we can look up the loop for each core).

If anyone has achieved acceleration and doesn't know what to do now, would you mind helping me out? This may help us control RPM, and help others repeat the acceleration effect.

[qvision]

Handy excel spreadsheet

This spreadsheet is handy, i put it together for wind turbine alternator calculations.

You input :

1. The desired output voltage (rectified DC).
2. Magnet face area (square metres).
3. Magnet strength (Teslas, just divide your Gauss by 10,000)
4. RPM.

It outputs :

1. The number of turns needed to achieve the desired output.

This number of turns is PER PHASE, so, if you have a 3-phase alternator and 2 coils per phase then each coil in that phase has half of the total number of turns.

2. The projected, actual rectified DC voltage you should get.

You have to change the extension of the attached file from '.doc' to '.xls' because of the filetype upload rules here.

*EDIT* All of the above relates to gen coils in series. *EDIT*


Hope this helps,

QV.

[Shadesz]

This spreadsheet is handy, i put it together for wind turbine alternator calculations.

You input :

1. The desired output voltage (rectified DC).
2. Magnet face area (square metres).
3. Magnet strength (Teslas, just divide your Gauss by 10,000)
4. RPM.

It outputs :

1. The number of turns needed to achieve the desired output.

This number of turns is PER PHASE, so, if you have a 3-phase alternator and 2 coils per phase then each coil in that phase has half of the total number of turns.

2. The projected, actual rectified DC voltage you should get.

You have to change the extension of the attached file from '.doc' to '.xls' because of the filetype upload rules here.

*EDIT* All of the above relates to gen coils in series. *EDIT*


Hope this helps,

QV.

Interesting spreadsheet! Thanks!

Question on it... it appears you use the following formula...

(desired voltage + 1.4)*11) / ( area of magnet face in sqr meters * strength of magnet in tesla * RPM)

Can I ask where you got the formula?

Also, how did you derive the 1.4 and the 11 in the numerator?

Thanks in advance.

[qvision]

@Shadesz

The formula is from 'A Wind Turbine Recipe Book', by Hugh Piggott.

The 1.4 is the voltage loss due to rectification.

The 11 is a bit more complicated so here's the page with the maths :



This works for 3-phase designs but i'm unsure of anything else.

If anyone spots a mistake in it or thinks of enhancements please advise me and we can correct/update the spreadsheet.

The Wind Turbine book can be found here :

Hugh_Piggott_-_A_Wind_Turbine_Recipe_Book__The_Axial_Flux_Windmi ll_Plans__Jan_2009_Metric_edition.pdf

QV.

[qvision]

I've made a small update which fixes some accuracy on final output voltage, the new file is here :

Number of Turns2.xls

[Allen Burgess]

Here are two quotes I feel support one another. The 1st from Nhilrehob/ Hiens and third redacted from Tesla:

"Prime mover acceleration is created by increasing and exploiting the generator coils self induced capacitance. Now at desired frequencies the generator coils no longer operate as inductors, storing energy in the Electromagnetic Field around the coil, but instead they operate as capacitors, storing energy in the Electrostatic Field - between the wires inside the coil".

Increasing the Hysteresis loop:

"As for the Bifilar coils Tesla stated that the only resistance to the flow of current in such a coil is the resistive or ohmic value of the wire used to make the coil and that these bifilar coils are capacitors."

1.-"Prime mover acceleration is created by increasing and exploiting the generator coils self induced capacitance"

2.-" Bifilar coils are capacitors"

How do these last two quotes add up?

Bifilar coils increase prime mover acceleration!

[qvision]

@Allen, this makes sense since the classic bifilar wind (not the kind Bedini fans talk of) is a non-inductive wind.

But we are seeing the same effect with a normally-wound but high-impedance coil too, lots to explore !

My next wire delivery isn't until next week, can anyone try a proper bifilar-wound coil :

Bifilar coil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and see what happens ?


QV.

[Farmhand]

It's not just a bifilar coil, the coil you speak of it is a "series connected, parallel wound, bifilar, flat spiral coil."

But i'm not so sure it would be non inductive in forms other than a spiral.

I'm waiting for someone to accelerate a rotor with a short or load from one "regenerative acceleration" coil while powering a load from another coil or the same coil, enhanced by the speeding up rotor and using less and less input power as it does. And then more load added to the generator coil powering the load, just to see what happens.

That will be something to see.

Cheers

[Guest]

When the generator coil is collecting energy with the hi-impedance coil
coupled onto its inductance through core material, its output induced by
the rotor magnets goes directly into the motor's power coil system and
strengthens the ability of the motor allowing it to further increase the
energy output of the generator - the extra force applied into moving
the wheel then goes directly into the motor.

[Overunityguide]

Hi You All,

Please See my Latest Video About: 'How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect'
Calculation of the Delayed Lenz Effect - YouTube

This Video demonstrates how we can calculate the desired Delayed Lenz Effect, and shows that the experimental results of my previous video about: the Difference between Loading and Shorting the Regenerative Acceleration Generator coil can be explained and can be calculated. So than again high impedance is really important. And the Lenz Delay can be calculated by L/R

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

[Shadesz]

Hi You All,

Please See my Latest Video About: 'How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect'
Calculation of the Delayed Lenz Effect - YouTube

This Video demonstrates how we can calculate the desired Delayed Lenz Effect, and shows that the experimental results of my previous video about: the Difference between Loading and Shorting the Regenerative Acceleration Generator coil can be explained and can be calculated. So than again high impedance is really important. And the Lenz Delay can be calculated by L/R

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

that is very interesting, Thanks!

[qvision]

OUG thanks very much