Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[osamaricu_te]

progress report

Hi all,

Not too many posts behind me but I actively follow this forum for some time and in last 30 days or more, I have been following this topic.

Reason I didnt reply here sooner is because I didnt have anything to report (at least nothing worthy).

Now I am here with some news.

In last 15 or 20 days (dont know precisely) I have been tinkering with this. I even bought a device that can change frequency of AC. I have aquired different transformers to test different voltages, I purchased different materials, different shapes, different gaps, different sizes and different resonate frequencies.
THINGS I DIDNT TEST are 50Hz sanding and sphere shapes.

Tested materials with 100 Hz frequency and many many more.
In course of testing this device, I tested at least 30-40 DIFFERENT setups. I even disassembled air purifier that has very nice setup for this device. Multiple plates with + and - separated and very neatly mounted on bars. anyway, like I said, I tested a LOT, but I want to name all I tested (at least what I can remember) since it might assist someone in what they want to do or give an idea:

Soooo here is what I tested.

at least 20 different setups involving. Cans, stainless steel tubes, copper tubes, aluminum tubes of different dimensions(height/diameter). Thinner ones resonated on 100Hz - 106.1 Hz, thicker ones I couldnt find resonating frequency (ALL resonating frequencies were discovered very precisely by using 2 methods. Microphone to analyzer then high volume MONO speaker against object with something very small touching it). So I tested them against each other. Some with same resonate frequency, some with higher frequency on outside, then inside, then - outside +inside, then +outside, - inside.

Then I tested all setups on different frequencies by doing VERY VERY slow sweep through very small range by range.

Then I tested all above setups with AC power frequency changed to resonate frequency of inside + power used, then -.

Then I tested IKEA setup (bought very nice thermos) with bottom cut off, tested it in different setups.

Tested all above, especially 100Hz resonating ones of inside tube on regular 50Hz AC power with all setups.


Anyway, I tested a whole lot, wasted a lot of time (I dont mind).

Once again, I DIDNT test prof.savic recommended process of sanding can to 50Hz (I tried to sand it to 50Hz but I just get wholes whenever I get closer to 50Hz, can just gets too thin and it ruptures and if I sand further, it ruptures and makes a big hole).

I also didnt test sphere shaped object, simply cause I didnt find any good ones or suitable.

Finally, after all testing, I did get instant bubles a lot and thats all nice, I was able to heat various quantities of water fast BUT what I didnt get is OU. I sincerely doubt there is any here. I mean, I got something you could call OU with COP of 1.1, several times, but I write that off to mistakes of WATT meter. This is 1.1 COP compared to the theoretical energy needed to heat water to boiling temp of 100 C.
One more thing, when measuring do NOT get fooled by having top of your water containing jar boiling. STOP, stir the water, then proceed. You can get first 2 cm of water boiling while the rest is cold!

I know it is said there are "people" who have achieved OU but after all this testing (and more that I dont remember) I sincerely doubt it (this goes for people testing tubes in ways I did, not for experiments I DIDNT do such as savic can sanded to 50Hz or whatever else there is and I didnt test it)

I wish you all luck, I will take a break on this one, hope to hear others update their progress.

[boguslaw]

I have a feeling that if we could have two frequencies things would be easier.
My personal believe is that hot electrode has to have only thin walls and proper dimensions without tuning, it will anyway resonate at 50Hz, but outer electrode is a clue for me.If I could just put there any frequency I need I could proof my theory but that's beyond my capability.

[boguslaw]

I'm polishing my cap and it become thinner and thinner each day but frequency do not change a lot. I'm stuck with 259Hz. Do you have any idea how to change frequency of such shape like bell by making any notches or holes ? Is frequency 200Hz good instead of 400Hz ?

[Slovenia]

Cop>1

This device when tuned properly according to provided specifications will give you a high COP!! If you were not able to get a COP>1 please don't share your results on this thread and make statements inferring that our device is a waste of time and/or crap. That is pure nonsense and not appreciated.

[daemonbart]

Well spoken!

I can say that my time invested in Savic device have been keeping my family warm for a long time now!

Also warming close friends to me, hope soon I can help more friends!

Kind rgds D

This device when tuned properly according to provided specifications will give you a high COP!! If you were not able to get a COP>1 please don't share your results on this thread and make statements inferring that our device is a waste of time and/or crap. That is pure nonsense and not appreciated.

[Slovenia]

Thanks!!

Thanks Mr. D!!

I can say that my time invested in Savic device have been keeping my family warm for a long time now!

Also warming close friends to me, hope soon I can help more friends!

Kind rgds D

[osamaricu_te]

This device when tuned properly according to provided specifications will give you a high COP!! If you were not able to get a COP>1 please don't share your results on this thread and make statements inferring that our device is a waste of time and/or crap. That is pure nonsense and not appreciated.

thats unusual to hear from you... I never said time invested is lost or did I say its crap. I just said that with the equipment I bought solely for this experiment, that can change frequency of AC as desired to match ANY frequency you can come up with has shown no change what so ever in COP. Matching its frequency with numerous different gaps or not matching the frequency. COP stays exactly the same, but since I see you as main figure in this topic and I appreciate all your comments so far and all you done, I will do as you say.
I will not post here unless I manage to get COP >1
Sorry if I offended you.

I can say that my time invested in Savic device have been keeping my family warm for a long time now!

Also warming close friends to me, hope soon I can help more friends!

Kind rgds D

I am truly glad for you and if one day I manage to do the same will post it.

Until then...

[Slovenia]

Yes

Hi Osamaricu_te,

Yes, I am usually a very mild mannered fellow but this has not been a good past year for me. Anyway, thanks for getting back to me. I don't mind if you post your results here on the thread, but please don't infer that it is impossible to really get a COP>1 on this project. When I read your post that is the meaning I got from it. I will go back and read it again. If I misunderstood your post I am very sorry indeed!! It is good that you have been experimenting and we are glad for that. I need to get back to experimenting myself.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

thats unusual to hear from you... I never said time invested is lost or did I say its crap. I just said that with the equipment I bought solely for this experiment, that can change frequency of AC as desired to match ANY frequency you can come up with has shown no change what so ever in COP. Matching its frequency with numerous different gaps or not matching the frequency. COP stays exactly the same, but since I see you as main figure in this topic and I appreciate all your comments so far and all you done, I will do as you say.
I will not post here unless I manage to get COP >1
Sorry if I offended you.

[Slovenia]

The line I didn't like

This is the line I read that annoyed me. If you'd left that line out and the sentence below it, it would have been a grand post.

I know it is said there are "people" who have achieved OU but after all this testing (and more that I dont remember) I sincerely doubt it.

I know such claim cannot be made just because I failed to achieve it but since this is my post it is subject to my opinion and there for I express it.

[osamaricu_te]

This is the line I read that annoyed me. If you'd left that line out and the sentence below it, it would have been a grand post.

Now I understand but since I wrote that line, I see it was wrong expression on my side. My observations are related to tubes and what ever I personally tested. This is not related to sanding the can to 50Hz or any test where spheres are used or anything else that I didnt tested... This should have been understood without me saying it like this since I cannot comment on things I didnt test, my comments are for the tests I did, with tubes and matching frequency to where ever it was needed...

My apologies for not explaining in first place, but I didnt think people will consider this to discard this entire idea I just said what DIDNT work for me, so it might save some time to someone.

[Slovenia]

Thanks!!

Thanks for your apology!! I do understand that sometimes things can be said by us and understood in a different context than we meant for them to be taken. Your apology is accepted and forgive me also for being so annoyed with you. From what you wrote in your post I took an offensive meaning and then took the offensive. I believe in Mr. "C" & Mr. "D".

Now I understand but since I wrote that line, I see it was wrong expression on my side. My observations are related to tubes and what ever I personally tested. This is not related to sanding the can to 50Hz or any test where spheres are used or anything else that I didnt tested... This should have been understood without me saying it like this since I cannot comment on things I didnt test, my comments are for the tests I did, with tubes and matching frequency to where ever it was needed...

My apologies for not explaining in first place, but I didnt think people will consider this to discard this entire idea I just said what DIDNT work for me, so it might save some time to someone.

[Slovenia]

Mr. "C" Reply to Boguslaw

Reply Boguslaw
these goods is the frequency of 200 Hz, but you have to find the distance odgovarajićeizmrđu electrodes.
It is not the same distance of 100 200 or 400 Hz
Cap or fingers must play at least one oktavia more than cans that must play at 50 Hz or 60Hz EU to the USA.
Be upotan uspećeš. Sonic is not just a boiler heater but also a musical instrument.
Make the instrument is not easy.
Bottoms of steel and aluminum ring of tin or brass ring for a steel can.
Regards prof.Savić, Serbia.


Serbian Response:
Odgovor Bogoslavu
dobra ti je frekvencija od 200 Hz ali moraš pronaći odgovarajiće rastojanje izmrđu elektroda.
Nije isto rastojanje za 100 200 ili 400 Hz
Kapa ili prstem moraju svirati na najmanje za jednu oktaviu više od konzerve koja mora svirati na 50 Hz za EU ili 60 Hz za USA.
Budi upotan uspećeš. Sonic boiler nije samo grejač već i muzički instrument.
Napraviti instrument nije lako.
Koritite čelik za prsten i aluminijum za konzervu ili mesing za prsten a čelik za konzervu .
pozdrav prof.Savić,Srbija.

[wrtner]

I'm polishing my cap and it become thinner and thinner each day but frequency do not change a lot. I'm stuck with 259Hz. Do you have any idea how to change frequency of such shape like bell by making any notches or holes ? Is frequency 200Hz good instead of 400Hz?

It is important to remember how shape affects the frequency that an
item rings at.

Look at a tuning fork: The smaller the length, the higher the frequency.
Look at a bowl: The smaller the diameter, the higher the frequency.

Notching does make a difference. Dave Lawton notched his tubes for
his electrolysis (or water fracturing) project.

But adjusting thickness needs to be watched out for because I suspect
that long before the required ring is produced, the component will be so
thin that it will not be useable any more.

As for 200hz instead of 400hz, I personally believe that the nearer the
driving frequency, 50hz, the better but an item accurately tuned to
400hz (pretty much the sound of many bicycle bells) will work better
than an item poorly tuned to 200hz.

I reckon that the COP will depend on the closeness of the tuning.

Paul-R

[RAMSET]

Some help please

Several members here have commented in the past about reactive power
as it applies to our homes.
We would like to understand more about this and how it may apply to this device?[if at all]

How can we measure reactive power ?

Should we be able to do 2kwh work on a cold 3 amp fuse ?

A new thread for this is over here.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post174931

With all respect
Chet

[osamaricu_te]

It is important to remember how shape affects the frequency that an
item rings at.

Look at a tuning fork: The smaller the length, the higher the frequency.
Look at a bowl: The smaller the diameter, the higher the frequency.

Notching does make a difference. Dave Lawton notched his tubes for
his electrolysis (or water fracturing) project.

But adjusting thickness needs to be watched out for because I suspect
that long before the required ring is produced, the component will be so
thin that it will not be useable any more.

As for 200hz instead of 400hz, I personally believe that the nearer the
driving frequency, 50hz, the better but an item accurately tuned to
400hz (pretty much the sound of many bicycle bells) will work better
than an item poorly tuned to 200hz.

I reckon that the COP will depend on the closeness of the tuning.

Paul-R

this... spot on what I was saying about the can. It is very difficult to tune it to 50Hz, BUT I am not posting just to ***** about how hard it is, I have found something interesting for me at least, maybe some of you already went through this but anyone working on this device should read this and make use of formulas on this page to see where he is heading or where he is right now:

Acoustic resonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, I used specs from this topic to determine the can frequency with cap cut off and unsanded!
These are numbers I used:

speed of sound through air = 343.2 at 20C
Harmonics = 1 I used 1 it could be 2, 3, 4...

length = 15mm
diameter = I used inner one, which should be approximately 0.061m

so I got that acoustic resonance of "beer" can should be 492Hz. pretty close to 500Hz which is harmonic of 50Hz.
So many ways to correct this 492 to 500, such as correcting the lenght of can to 14.72mm instead of 15mm, also higher temperatures have higher sound speed so that could explain why people get better resonance at higher temperatures using this can.

Now, another observation that MIGHT assist someone to try, I know I will in few days...
I used above formula for a can that is 52mm in diameter (thin european one), same height, BUT I cut off the both ends to make an open tube. I have put these details into equation to get around 1061.224 Hz of resonance. In reality, that can was resonating on its harmonic 106.1 Hz (checked by 2 methods), so what I am trying to say, 1061 from formula divided by 10 (harmonics) = 106.1 or in upper case of "beer" can, 500 divided by 10 = 50Hz.
So I would suggest someone to try using this formula him self and shorten the can to the size I suggested 14.72mm instead of 15mm (not the can you sanded since if this dont work you would lose all the work you invested in sanding).
That should get it to 500Hz straight unless I got this all VERY wrong in which case, I sincerely apologize.

Finally, speed of sound in water is very much different than in air 1435, so this is one of the reasons I believe actual frequancy might not play such a big role as much as DIFFERENCE in frequency between + and - electrodes and gap between them.

Once again, I might be getting this all wrong as I proved in last post with numerous failed attempts...

:P