Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[RAMSET]

A single bowl?

Now you sound like WITTS ministries Hot water heater!

Chet

[MonsieurM]

I am merely showing you the pattern...

Check this post out about the witts resonator: http://www.energeticforum.com/155886-post493.html

besides, isn't a bowl a deformed cousin of a closed cylinder

[RAMSET]

You make me smile Gordon ,Thanks

Wow
Open at the top??
What an amazing similarity!

You must show the movie too,

[www.witts.ws] World's Most Efficient Overunity Water Heater ... from WITTS [www.witts.ws] - YouTube

This is all very encouraging ,I'm in NY so I'm going to look for the Pils [Beer]

Thanks
Chet

[Core]

Core, I noticed those shrimp-dip cups have a rolled edge,
they may work if the effect is electrical predominantly,
but not if the effect is purely sonic doe to the lip.

Yes I plan on taking a cutting wheel to the rolled lips of the cups. Hoping to start this by weeks end.

-Core

[MonsieurM]

Does anyone know what Tesla discovered with the numbers? and what prompted the quote?

-Core

Start with Tesla's Egg and Rodin coil...to make it short

the long version start here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...magnetism.html

[WeThePeople_USA]

However, i would recommend going with copper..as it was already used in plumbing and for a water container for thousands of years

Sorry, bad idea, in fact electrolysis is used in the refinement of copper.

It will poison the water.

Reference:
Copper Leaching Electrolysis - Google Search

[MonsieurM]

Sorry, bad idea, in fact electrolysis is used in the refinement of copper.

It will poison the water.

Reference:
Copper Leaching Electrolysis - Google Search

thanks for correcting me

but let me ask you this, if the ring is insulated with mica (to avoid electrocution) do you think we are using electrolysis or resonance (there is no connection between the two electrodes except magnetic)

[WeThePeople_USA]

...if the ring is insulated with mica...

Mica is known for It's porosity, won't work.

Reference:
mica porosity - Google Search

...do you think we are using electrolysis or resonance
(there is no connection between the two electrodes except magnetic)

Now your asking the right question.



I'm sure you've seen the YouTube vid of an aluminum can in the stator
of an AC induction motor in place of the rotor that would be there.

We think of aluminum as non-ferous because it does not retain a magnetic domain alignment
and remain magnetic after being magnetized by a field from a coil or a magnet,
but if a field is introduced to it a current is induced in it that makes It's own field too.

That is were many will have different points of thought on this,
some will say it is the same field, I disagree humbly.

If an external field induces a magnetic flow in the aluminum,
and the aluminum then generates It's own eddy currents,
which then as a result of those currents, make yet another field.



I said all that to say this...

If the level of current in the aluminum from the 50/60-hz mains
is causing the can(s) to generate a magnetic field already,
then that field is already acting on the ring before anything is applied to it.

If what your applying to the ring is a secondary frequency different from the mains,
then you will be creating a third frequency via beat frequency mixing,
and the harmonics of all three together at same time too.

So, is the ring adding and subtracting to the field in the can(s) magnetically,
or are we dealing with a electrostatic field potential interaction instead ?

Test results with the ring bare, then insulated, should yield that answer.



I am not trying to be a downer on the use of various metals above,
the amount of metal leached off into the solution by reduction would only assist the water to transfer the BTU's of thermals in a closed-circuit water heater design.

I'm just afraid someone will use brass/bronze/copper/etc. to heat a cup of water, make tea, then drink it...

Even with safer metals like SS, they have to be used many times before safe,
ask anyone using 316L from China for their HHO cells how much leaches out until the surface has released most of them and self-passivates sealing in the rest.

For the purposes of heating, the consideration is only how the fouling of the water effects the overall operation of the system, and how long before the expendable metals have to be replenished as a practicality.



Oh, I wrote the NZ patent office and received a reply,
patents older than 20 years old are at the archives...

I am working with them now to get copies of anything
that Peter Daysh Davey submitted for consideration.

That patent I shared is a badly photographed set
made by a KONICA & MINOLTA by someone named
"bizhub 420" on a PC registered as "-KMBT_420".

But it gets the general idea across...



Did anyone play with those programs I dug up yet,
can they be re-purposed for natural 432-hz A use ?

[MonsieurM]

WeThePeople_USA you are correct, safety always comes first

Only experience would yield answers

now it's pure speculation:

do you think a bigger version of this would be safer:

Tuning fork type piezoelectric resonator

[IMG][/IMG]

[MonsieurM]

That is were many will have different points of thought on this,
some will say it is the same field, I disagree humbly.

If an external field induces a magnetic flow in the aluminum,
and the aluminum then generates It's own eddy currents,
which then as a result of those currents, make yet another field.



I said all that to say this...

If the level of current in the aluminum from the 50/60-hz mains
is causing the can(s) to generate a magnetic field already,
then that field is already acting on the ring before anything is applied to it.

If what your applying to the ring is a secondary frequency different from the mains,
then you will be creating a third frequency via beat frequency mixing,
and the harmonics of all three together at same time too.

So, is the ring adding and subtracting to the field in the can(s) magnetically,
or are we dealing with a electrostatic field potential interaction instead ?

Test results with the ring bare, then insulated, should yield that answer.

I m thinking along the same line, water currents do the same thing

[WeThePeople_USA]

I scrolled up to reference one of the pics in the last post,
and was left with a nagging sensation of missing info,
so I left that out, and then went back and read ALL posts.

First, I see some of the files I have posted
have already been shared, sorry 'bout that...

I will hold back until I have real copies from the NZ archive.



Now about the pic we are supposed to be working from.

I see a tuning fork essentially, abiet a cylindrical one.

Reference the YouTube video of a crystal glass being shattered
with high-power audio captured with a high-speed camera
to see what the can will be doing while in use and resonating.

Then rethink the gap between the ring and the can so it cannot touch !

An insulated band on the ring's ID as a stop-gap measure at least.



But that was not the nagging aspect, the lack of TWO complete paths was.

Please remove the cathode/anode designators, this is an AC circuit,
and the complete paths for both sources have been overlooked.

There is no inlet tube extending into the open topped can to near the bottom of the can
forcing the water to pass through the inside of the can back to the top to meet an outlet.

What is shown is a water flow path that is outside of the can instead.

The former should be considered as an improvement later perhaps.



But the lack of a return path on two different circuits is what bothers me.

Where does the 120-VAC neutral return go ?

Back on page one I get the impression that the external container/vessal
is the second conductor, and the current flows from can to vessal wall.

Reference:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8999-peter-daysh-davey-water-heater-query.html#post155864

"Grounding is the entrance to the exit of water and boiler water from a plastic tube separated from the plastic that goes into the radiator."

Yeah, that translation makes my skin crawl too, heheh...

But it would make sense for the outer vessal to be neutral,
the can to be either L1 or L2 @ 120-VAC off of the mains.

That would also help stop the steam-style radiators an/or baseboard heaters
used to radiate the heat into the living space from becoming shock hazards...

The water would flow between the "Hot" can
and the "Neutral" vessal all is assembled in.



Then there is the matter of applying the 300/400/480-hz,
that seems like incomplete path #2 to me.

What is the common lead of that signal source referenced to ?

Is the potential difference between the can and ring,
or between the neutral vessal the the ring... sigh ?



And lastly, and I swear I'm trying to be helpful,
(but it can be interpreted as project-bashing sadly
because text in a forum has no audible acuity clues)
the whole "sanding the can" thing is just sad, heheh.

In the case of a thick brass bell,
you would be able to sand the thickness.

But in the case of the aluminum can here,
you would be adjusting It's LENGTH by trimming.

A pair of sheetmetal shears, or with todays ubber-wimpy beer cans,
a pair of disposable scissors to trim a little at a time would suffice.

And whom is drinking beer out of 2.1-mm dollhouse-thimble's anyway ?

Thats barely over 1/8th inch american measure,
and just over 13/16th inches if it was centimeters.

Heck, even 2.1 inches is too small to even be a chick-beer,
it is more like one of those smaller cans of red bull really.



Then there is the matter of the "Tuning" of the can in question
in the gaseious-fluid that we know as air, or the liquid called water.

The resistance of the water does dampen resonance of course,
but also changes the resonance frequency via same said damping.

So if the application is to be underwater,
it stands to reason the "Tuning" should be too, right ?

The mounting bolt/terminal to be used would have to be in place,
and the exact vessal to be used would need to be employed too.

All these variables will effect the tuning proceedure greatly.



So, we need to know:
1 - Where do BOTH mains connections go ?
2 - Where do BOTH 300/400/480-hz leads go ?
3 - "Tune" can to length in or out of water ?

I like the piezo idea as far as being the second interactive source if it is a non-magnetic interaction,
but the simplicity and cost savings of using just an adjusted "Ring" instead wins out so far though.

.

[RAMSET]

Very happy your here!!

we the people

Thanks for the analysis and the queries ,you help bring focus to this !!

I am glad for your comment on Tuning the length !!
This is what I will try First!

Thanks
Chet

[Slovenia]

Frequency Query

How do we figure the frequency for various voltages such as but not limited to 12 volts?

I know 120 volts is 60 Hz and that 230 volts is 50 Hz. But, I don't know how to figure it. Thanks in advance!!

[wrtner]

How do we figure the frequency for various voltages such as but not limited to 12 volts?

I know 120 volts is 60 Hz and that 230 volts is 50 Hz

No, this is not so.

The figures come from your particular electricity supplier and
is genrally the same for every country.

For instance:
in the USA, electricity is, indeed, 60Hz and 120volts
in the UK, electricity is 50Hz and 50 volts.

That is how it is in those two territories.

But some countries could supply 250 volts at 60Hz or
alternatively 120 volts and 50Hz. It depends on the
electricity generating companies.

[Slovenia]

Thanks!!

Ah, Thanks Wrtner!!

No, this is not so.

The figures come from your particular electricity supplier and
is genrally the same for every country.

For instance:
in the USA, electricity is, indeed, 60Hz and 120volts
in the UK, electricity is 50Hz and 50 volts.

That is how it is in those two territories.

But some countries could supply 250 volts at 60Hz or
alternatively 120 volts and 50Hz. It depends on the
electricity generating companies.