Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[Slovenia]

Tuning can query

Has anyone had any luck tuning an aluminum can to either 50 or 60 Hz? I'm having a heck of a time trying to tune one to 60 Hz. I need a better signal from the internet for my 60 Hz beat. Mine is to short and sweet. Does anyone have a long drawn out 60 Hz beat? Thanks!!

[MonsieurM]

Not sure this fits, but heck, bring the mountain ....

Federal Signal 504-120 Bell, 120 Vac @ 60 Hz V



Bell, Voltage Rating 120 VAC @ 60 Hz, Current Rating 0.08 Amp, Signal 98 dB @ 10 Feet, Height 4 Inches, Depth 2 1/8 Inches, Width 4 Inches, With Gong

[Slovenia]

Nice

That baby would wake the dead. It might work for what I need without the gong. Thanks for sharing!!

Not sure this fits, but heck, bring the mountain ....

Federal Signal 504-120 Bell, 120 Vac @ 60 Hz V



Bell, Voltage Rating 120 VAC @ 60 Hz, Current Rating 0.08 Amp, Signal 98 dB @ 10 Feet, Height 4 Inches, Depth 2 1/8 Inches, Width 4 Inches, With Gong

[Slovenia]

Tuning Success

Well, I've finally got a standard sized American 12 oz. pop can to resonate at 60 Hz. I had to cut the top of the can off 3.5" from the true bottom of the can but it does resonate now at 60 Hz. I hung a nail from the ceiling on a nylon fish line and had the nail barely touching the can. I placed one of my speakers right next to the can about 1" away from the side of the open sided pop can and hit it with 60 Hz. It resonated a little after being hit. I may need to tune it a little more, but it was a bear finding this cut position, so I might just go to the next step with the ring and try it.

Any thoughts?

[Slovenia]

Cutting Method

This can cutting is a lot easier than we were figuring it would be. I just used a pair of nice tin snips to cut my can and the cut came out very true. I just marked where I wanted to cut and put some painter's masking tape on the can to mark with the outer edge of the tape where I was going to cut the can. The tape made it really easy to see where I needed to cut and also kept the can from deforming. I didn't need to sand anything. I removed the tape from the can and then went around the inner edge of my can while placing it against a metal table with the end of my tin snips. I just turned the can while pushing the tin snips against the inner edge of the can to flatten it consistently all around the top edge of the can. It worked perfectly and made a very true edge for me. Try it and see how it works out for you.

I tried using a smaller diameter V8 can and was never able to reach resonance with it. I was hoping to be able to use the smaller diameter can because the aluminum in it was a little more rigid than that of the pop can, plus it was a much cuter little can, and more the size of can I was looking to experiment with.

[wrtner]

Has anyone had any luck tuning an aluminum can to either 50 or 60 Hz?

I need a better signal from the internet for my 60 Hz beat.

I am sure you have no hope of tuning a beer can. It would have to be
the size of a small dustbin to ring at such a fantastically low frequency.

You need either a very big can or to tune the can you have to a higher
octave, 100hz, 200hz or 400hz (the last one being what Peter Davey used).

(You could go into a music shop and ask to hear a bass guitar. Three
frets up the thickest string is approximately 50-60 hz. Three frets up
the smallest string on a regular guitar is about 400hz).

As for the tuning signal, the best is the mains itself. Do you have a cheap
noisy transformer? That will give you the note. Alternatively, get a cheap
loudspeaker out of a dumped TV, connect a heavy resistor in series,
and plug it across your mains. (Be very careful here and take advice from
your local electronics shop. This way, you are tuning to what your mains
actually is. The real McCoy).

Paul-R

[RAMSET]

300hz???????????

Wrtner
You say 300hz?
Slovenia's contact mentioned 300hz!

I don't pretend to understand these things,.......so I can try tuning for 300hz and still feed it 60hz to run it??

Is that what you mean Wrtner?
Thanks
Chet

[Slovenia]

60 Hz

Chet,

Contact said to tune the cup to 60 Hz and the mains would take care of the 300 Hz through the ring.

Slovenia

Wrtner
You say 300hz?
Slovenia's contact mentioned 300hz!

I don't pretend to understand these things,.......so I can try tuning for 300hz and still feed it 60hz to run it??

Is that what you mean Wrtner?
Thanks
Chet

[RAMSET]

Wonder why?

Why would "contact" specifically mention 300 hz at the ring??
Whats the point ?

?
Chet

[Slovenia]

"Cup Sing"

He says if the can is tuned to 60 Hz the ring will make the can/cup sing at 300 Hz.. He didn't explain what he meant, but I've got him talking to me now in person. I think if we replicate what he has shared with us he may take us to the next level. I think this device is much bigger than the Peter Davey device. I've been told it does a lot more than boil water. I'm not at liberty to say any more yet.

Why would "contact" specifically mention 300 hz at the ring??
Whats the point ?

?
Chet

[Slovenia]

Can Resonating

I've got my can resonating at 60 Hz. now.

See post #145

[WeThePeople_USA]

Heheh, you guys have come up with some funny stuff above,
sorry, but some of it is just a touch humorous...

Lets recap a few points, the 400/480 thing comes from the X8 multiplier he spoke of,
take 50-hz (NZ) and multiply it by eight and you have the 400.

Hence 480 for the 60-hz mains also posted previously.

As was (also) correctly indicated above,
and I incorrectly assumed was obvious common sense stuff,
a true resonance of 50 or 60 cycles per second
as a fundamental frequency would be a huge something,
like a friggin dumpster or something.

Google a speaker cabinet resonance calculator
and input 50/50 hertz, then have a good laugh...

The 60-hz bells above are only referring to
what the coil/core is optimized for,
has nothing to do with the bell.

You would need something as huge as the "Liberty Bell"
to even get close to even harmonics at X6 and X8 of the mains.

Obviously and incredibly unpractical...



I didn't bring that up above, because it was already clearly laid out in previous posts
that upper harmonics relative to the fundamental line frequency from the mains was the goal.

to also be clear, the harmonics elligible are even harmonics only,
absolutely no odd harmonic multiple will do a thing for the project.

gather all your odd harmonics together,
and you simply have made a square wave.

With that now said, any amp with a speaker on it, and an open (unshielded) input wire plugged into it
will give you plenty of line main's hum at root and also fundamental harmonics up from that due to being
in an enviroment bathed in endless line mains frequency polution to the point of unavoidable saturation.

Think guitar amp, and touching the cord's plug's tip conductor...



Now on to the ring,
and the point of that.

"A beer can does not a dumpster make" lol.

once you trim the length of the can so it resonates in pasive resonant sympathy
to an upper harmonic of the line mains "Hum" in the air,
you now have to assist it with resonance while in the water.

I'm sorry, but I'm still stuck on the fact I think tuning free air
for use in water instead is just wrong on all levels,
but that is my personal opinion due.

Get a piece of frequency counter or guitar tuner software for your soundcard,
hit a piece of pipe in free air at a microphone and note the frequency indicated,
put it in a bucket of water leaving only enough out for the microphone next.

Wasn't even close to the same frequency, was it...



Obviously the line mains are a source of stimulation,
but you must also ring the can at an even harmonic
much farther up the frequency scale too (X8, etc.)
that the can finds closer to It's natural resonance.

60-hz feeds the can & vessal exchange as root,
the ring feeds a resonant-friendly upper harmonic
to the can as an additional resonance catalyst too.

Did that clear anything up ?



The singing bowl issue is light years ahead of this project,
Truely awsome stuff in many ways, and well proven,
but overkill for causing cavatation heating of water
using line mains frequency and upper catalyst harmonics.

Then again, modern science does see what the hammering of the metals is doing to it,
or that modern transmutation of metals produces the best product for making these bowls.

Start here, research more, you'll be surpised.
http://veracityvoice.com/?p=9691


Also the standing wave visualizations portrayed above with water/sand/etc.
do indicate the potential use of augmenting harmonics to produce gain,
and are relavent to the juxtaposition of mains freq to ring freq used also.

The goal being to "Ring" the can at an ideal upper (even) multiple harmonic
to harness gain by using It's resonance to multiply the input power significantly
by producing a standing wave in all parts concerned.


Again, my opinion,
but I think this gain is what makes this cavation heating so efficient.

[Slovenia]

Resonating Can

I took another can and cut it off 3" from the bottom to see if it would improve the resonance of the 3.5" can. The 3" can will not resonate at all. Tomorrow I'll try cutting a can to 3.25" and maybe just a tad longer too. The 60 Hz note I downloaded from the internet is very short and not a sustained note, and this is causing me some problems. If it was a longer note, I think I would get more resonance. But, I was able to achieve the resonance called for by my contact.

If people think this is to funny, I'll stop wasting my time posting here!!

[MonsieurM]

Slovenia you are doing good and helping the community...keep up the good work

WeThePeople_USA is also trying to help albeit in a more jovial manner

[WeThePeople_USA]

[quote=Slovenia;157510]
If people think this is to funny, I'll stop wasting my time posting here!!
[/quote]

heheh, relax, it wasn't that specific.

It just got funny for a moment.

The analogy might be like taking a dozen puppies for a walk,
you all start out in the same general direction essentially,
but at some point free-will takes over on an individual basis
and puppies take off in all kinds of unexpected directions,
and as a result the net gain isn't one step further down the sidewalk...

No insult was meant, maybe I shouldn't have noted my humor above.

If anything, maybe my posts are confusing things somehow.

Thank god I left out the part about using a duplex sound card
to drive a speaker positioned at a right angle to the can's outside,
while a microphone hung from above is in the middle of the cans inside
to provide feedback to a sweep graphing software to map out
the resonance nodes of any can and see what the "Can" wants...

I think the beer can thing is a bit restrictive anyway though,
but then again we are tring to reproduce an existing success.

I'd get a tall-boy beer can,
leave the bottom (not the top),
and cut it as close to the top as possible
then mount it on the bolt that will be mounted on first
before any trimming/tuning of any kind.

You have more wiggle room as you shear it shorter until resonance is found.

And you don't need a recording,
and actually shouldn't use a recording
of a 60-hz signal, use your mains somehow.

Amplifier lead laying on a lamp cord's insulation,
anything that is the real mains frequency instead.

Not much more can really be done until we all know exactly where
both the neutral and hot (mains) leads go first for his device,
and where the return path for the ring's input goes second.

And perhaps what he is getting his 300/400 from (his 50-hz version).

I'll shutup and go to bed now..