Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[boguslaw]

Now ,the problem is : how to tune this ring to 400Hz (in my case of 50Hz AC) ? If that crazy 0.2mm thickness is correct that means ring is acting like tuning force generating this 400Hz , and can resonance at 50Hz is only for kicking ring into oscillation.Interesting....

How the can should be mounted on outside container ? Beer can has concave bottom , does it have to be punched in the center and mounted on SS rod without edges of bottom contacting outer container ? The more stable way would be using SS rod but also with edges of bottom supported on outside container wall (of course using some rubber insulator between).

[AhuraMazda]

Now ,the problem is : how to tune this ring to 400Hz (in my case of 50Hz AC) ? If that crazy 0.2mm thickness is correct that means ring is acting like tuning force generating this 400Hz , and can resonance at 50Hz is only for kicking ring into oscillation.Interesting....

How the can should be mounted on outside container ? Beer can has concave bottom , does it have to be punched in the center and mounted on SS rod without edges of bottom contacting outer container ? The more stable way would be using SS rod but also with edges of bottom supported on outside container wall (of course using some rubber insulator between).

If you design yourself a variable frequency powersupply ( preferabely variable voltage too ) you will find tuning will be easier. I think this is why Meyer was using a car alternator to run his cells.

[Slovenia]

Can Mounting Scenario

Hi Boguslaw,

Yes, in the original diagram I received from Mr. "C", it shows a very serious base attached to the bottom of the can for anchoring and also as an insulator to keep the can away from the side of the reservoir. A hole must be drilled exactly through the bottom of the can. The can base needs to be kept away from any surface that would deaden it's vibration. The walls of the can must be allowed to vibrate their whole length without any hindrance. So, my two cans connected together probably will not work well.

Mr. "C" didn't say what material to use to mount either the ring or the can and/or how to specifically mount them. I think he wanted to see what I'd come up with, but I think it's important to do it right and I'm not sure if I am doing it right.

Mr. "C" said that the can needed to be tuned and not the ring but that if the can was tuned properly and the ring made properly that the negative ring would make the can sing @ 400 Hz for European 220 volts and 300 Hz for USA's 115 volts.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Now ,the problem is : how to tune this ring to 400Hz (in my case of 50Hz AC) ? If that crazy 0.2mm thickness is correct that means ring is acting like tuning force generating this 400Hz , and can resonance at 50Hz is only for kicking ring into oscillation.Interesting....

How the can should be mounted on outside container ? Beer can has concave bottom , does it have to be punched in the center and mounted on SS rod without edges of bottom contacting outer container ? The more stable way would be using SS rod but also with edges of bottom supported on outside container wall (of course using some rubber insulator between).

[Slovenia]

PDF File

Updated & Corrected information on the ring thickness. Changed from .5mm to the correct thickness of .2mm.

.2mm correct thickness of ring material

[Slovenia]

Ring of Iron

Mr. "C" did say we needed a ring of iron referring to the negative ring in our assembly. The dimensions he called for were .2mm thickness and 5mm width.

Tin Can Thickness = .1mm

If you try to fold it over in a vice, you warp it really bad. Also, it's hard to fold it 100% straight when all you have is just a small vice. If someone had a brake, they could fold a piece of this can properly very easily as well as cutting it off perfectly flat without warping the metal like a pair of tin snips has the ability to do.

Anyway, we're on it now trying to ascertain the best way to go. The .1mm tin can material is a lot more rigid than the aluminum can material which is .2mm.

Cutting a 5mm strip of this can material is quite fun too. I've cut four pieces and can't get any of them to come out exactly 5mm. They are all either a little below 5mm or a little above but no cigar yet. I'm using tin snips and sighting down a scratch line on my tin material.

Thanks for catching that .2mm thickness mistake in my pdf file Chet. I don't know how I made that boo boo but it was a really bad one.

[Slovenia]

Ring Anchor

I figured out a better way to anchor the ring to the side of the container. The ring material being as thin as it is and the width what it is needed a completely upgraded anchoring device.

Ring Holder Method (NEW)
A threaded 3/8" rod with a small slot in the end to accept the handle on the ring. There is a set screw that screws down through the slotted side of the threaded rod wedging the arm of the ring against the opposing side of the slot.

[Slovenia]

Making Ring Method

I found a better way to make the ring too. I marked my 90 degree ends where I needed to first on both ends of my 5mm iron strip. Allow at least 3/4" of material for handle on both ends of ring. I also added an extra 3/4" of material on one end which I folded over to hold my other end in place. I got two sets of vice grips after scribing my bend areas. Put my iron strip around an iron fence post and attached a set of vice grips on each end of the steel strip. I now pull my vice grips under tension with the steel strip against the fence post back and forth at least ten times. This will put a radius on your strip and also take all the warping out of it at the same time. Now detach your vice grips and bend your 90 degree angles and put your ring together. It works really well especially if you left a tab on the end of one of your handles to fold back over the other handle as a keeper. Let me know if you like it.

My camera battery is down so I can't show you a pick right now.

[Slovenia]

Measuring Tools

Measuring tools work great Chet. I never had any of those before.

[Slovenia]

Gap

I made my ring to the European specs of 2.1mm gap because the 1.725mm gap is just to fine for me yet. I'll try the 2.1mm gap first even though it's not the right gap and see what happens. Something is better than nothing.

But, according to Mr. "C" 2.1mm is the wrong gap for USA.

[Slovenia]

New Ring

Best looking one yet. So we're gaining. Wrong thickness though. I used .1mm thickness instead of .2mm.

[Slovenia]

See Through Boiler

I'm in the process of putting a see through boiler together today. My assembly is from a previous hydrogen experiment and isn't tall enough for the 200mm can, so I'll be using a 150mm can in lieu of the 200mm. Right now I'm trying to determine some things before I sink a whole lot more money into this project. I'm trying also to follow Core's lead and show you guys something happening with respect to this device and water.

I've found a good insulator for the base of the can which hold it very securely and keeps it from any side wobble. I am having some issues with the top edge of the can. Somehow I got it a little out of round and it's not working with me. It's touching the ring unfortunately and that is a real pain for me. It's holding me up.

I'll have you some pics tomorrow. My battery for my digital camera is still charging.

[Slovenia]

Grounding

Remember Mr. "C" said to ground this device.

I'd say it's very important to do so!!!

[RAMSET]

A question

S, I mailed you a quick question

-------------------------
So the band is here... they're tuning up [yuk yuk]

Any Hoo I told them we won't need the Fat lady for quite some time!!
{ Yah No, "it aint over till.....]

So Sparky,,,, I mean Slovenia,
Hows tings??

Chet

[Slovenia]

Things

Hi Chet,

I sent you my latest updated pdf file and also answered your question in an e-mail.

The ring has been a real pain in the neck. I couldn't get the US ring to work for me since it was always contacting one of the sides of the can, so I went with the European spec ring just to see if I could make it work okay. Well, it's a pain too but I almost have it working. I wanted something for show like Core even if I didn't have it up to spec. Core is leaving me in the dust and I want to catch up. Anyway, I know the European spec ring is not right for US but I don't know how to make one that won't touch the can. The cans are part of the problem. When you sand them, you get them a little off round and you don't have any margin for error here. The ring is right there as close as it can be to the can. Trying to get the can perfectly round again is not that easy, so I'm looking at other options. Maybe sanding the top of the can when it's full is the way to go as you suggested.

Very good to hear from you. I've been discouraged because of the close tolerance ring scenario. I put another assembly together yesterday and worked on several rings. The .1mm ring I made is just to flimsy, so I'm going to make a .2mm ring today to replace it. I'm going to have to fold the sheet metal on a can even though I don't want to do so. It's a real bear to get that fold right with a medium sized vice and that's all I have. A brake would be fantastic but I don't have one. Also a shear for cutting the ring material would be great but I don't have one of those either. If this takes off right I may have to see if harbor freight can get me a combo shear brake device.

Thanks for checking in!!

P.S.: American Can is supposed to be 200mm or 7.9" supposedly. It's a very long assembly and I haven't found a can that long out there with an ID of 65mm. There are some tall cans out there but the ones I've seen were much smaller diameter and the 65mm is significant.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

S, I mailed you a quick question

-------------------------
So the band is here... they're tuning up [yuk yuk]

Any Hoo I told them we won't need the Fat lady for quite some time!!
{ Yah No, "it aint over till.....]

So Sparky,,,, I mean Slovenia,
Hows tings??

Chet

[Slovenia]

.2mm Thickness Ring Material

Well, the doctor called for a ring of iron, .2mm in thickness and 5mm wide.

My steel can material is .1mm thickness and when I fold it over you'd think it would be just .2mm but mine when folded over and flattened out really well is .5mm in thickness which is not acceptable.

The aluminum can material I have is .2mm thickness but it's aluminum and the doctor calls for ring of iron.

So, what to do???

I'm going to just make the best of the .1mm thick steel can material. I finally got the can so it's not touching my ring.

But, I don't have my ring arm secured in my slotted bolt yet and I think it needs to be before putting the juice to it.

Anyway, I'm almost ready for the water test but not quite.