Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[PhysicsProf]

I have worked with electrode boilers in the past ( school, and hospitals etc). The boilers was for cooking food, nowdays they are heated with resistanse heating elements, less maintenance.

Electrode heaters are pure induction, no resonance, here we most of all wants to avoid induction.

Br D

Thank you for the clarification, daemonbart! very helpful.

[daemonbart]

Experimenting!

Hi!

With a new setup I use to generate steam, I can see steam have a colour of yellow and light brown. Also it smells a little chlorine.

What does this tell

If I put my steam beam in to propane flame, the flame change to 100% blue and gets alot hotter and longer

I have alot of heat also in water surrounding my steam generator

I am running device on ac, around 100 Hz.

I can not ignite the steam (or what it is) alone.

Does anyone have an idea ?

Kind rgds D

[RAMSET]

D
One very important question

Can you see any obvious signs of deterioration any where in the vacinity of
the heater... any thing appear to be breaking down??
As I'm sure you are aware Chlorine gas does come into play with Certain techniques and certain Chemicals in Electrolysis .
But you have to have an electrolyte to bring this Chlorine from?
Brown color usually means Iron?? [strange to have it in the Air/Steam]

You are using City water?
Well water?
Any Additives ??

THX
Chet

[daemonbart]

No breakdown!

Neutral, city water and nothing added!

I have no breakdown whatsoever!

The smell is not exactly chlorine but similar, acid in some way

My configuration gives steam a little pressure!

Also after switch off, water stays warm a very long time, 12 litres was still 30 deg C after 6 h in open bucket and air temp around was 5 deg C. At switch off water was 60 deg C. So 30 deg C in 6 h ?

During night I will compare with water heated in normal way, same litres and same temps, that will give some interesting result I think

Kind rgds D

D
One very important question

Can you see any obvious signs of deterioration any where in the vacinity of
the heater... any thing appear to be breaking down??
As I'm sure you are aware Chlorine gas does come into play with Certain techniques and certain Chemicals in Electrolysis .
But you have to have an electrolyte to bring this Chlorine from?
Brown color usually means Iron?? [strange to have it in the Air/Steam]

You are using City water?
Well water?
Any Additives ??

THX
Chet

[wrtner]

Hi!

With a new setup I use to generate steam, I can see steam have a colour of yellow and light brown. Also it smells a little chlorine.

What does this tell

If I put my steam beam in to propane flame, the flame change to 100% blue and gets alot hotter and longer

I have alot of heat also in water surrounding my steam generator

I am running device on ac, around 100 Hz.

I can not ignite the steam (or what it is) alone.

Does anyone have an idea ?

Kind rgds D

Try bubbling the steam through a column of cold water in order
to condense out steam and see if there is anything left.

If there is a gas left it may be VERY DANGEROUS INDEED. It could
be a stochiometric mix of hydrogen and oxygen, sometimes called
HHO or hydroxy gas by luminaries such as the legendary Bob Boyce,
formed by a electrolytic process.

If there is a residual gas, I am not sure what to do to test it safely.

You could put detergent in the water column and try getting the
residual gas to bubble out as small soap bubbles. Then, WEARING
EAR PLUGS AND EVEN HEADPHONES, chase after a SMALL bubble
with a lighted match and see if it burns with an explosive crack.

[boguslaw]

Looks like you are using imperfect sinewave daemonbart. Electrolysis ?

[PhysicsProf]

One of the safety tests that I propose, Daemonbart, is to use a mass spectrometer to measure what is in the steam/emitted gases.

This test would be in addition to looking for possible gammas, X-rays and other emissions.

Running at 100 Hz implies that you can choose your frequency, rather than using the mains frequency. Awesome! some day, please tell us how you do this -- when you are ready.

[PhysicsProf]

I should recall that it is fairly easy to double the mains frequency, from 50 to 100 Hz. For example with a full-bridge rectifier will give pulsating current flow in the same direction at 100 Hz.

Also, DC is more likely to give HHO than is AC in a system like this (IMO).


I have an idea for using a cylindrical steel pipe as the resonating electrode, allowing water to flow through and along the outside of the pipe while being heated. It seems to me that this would permit more water flow, more efficient heating.

To this end, I have cut steel pipe to various lengths and suspended each pipe in such a way that it "rings" freely at its natural resonant frequency (with harmonics) when struck. I was looking for a harmonic of 60 Hz, and found that one pipe rings at very close to 240 Hz. This pipe is 903 mm long and 46 mm OD. It rings with a clear tone. However, the water bath for this is going to be LARGE (at about 1 m long). I am still thinking about the shape of the other electrode -- perhaps a bare wire extending down the center of the pipe, or another parallel pipe surrounding the resonating electrode pipe. (Comments welcomed.)
Steve

[daemonbart]

AC!

Hi,

I run with true ac, perfect sinewave, no DC whatsoever. I can adjust my freq

And I finally know the smell from my setups! Hydrogen-peroxide

Kind rgds D

Looks like you are using imperfect sinewave daemonbart. Electrolysis ?

[AhuraMazda]

Hi,

I run with true ac, perfect sinewave, no DC whatsoever. I can adjust my freq
Kind rgds D

So, do you have a variable frequency inverter or are you doing it with a car alternator+motor+variac?

Regards

M

[Cherryman]

@Prof,


Hi prof,

I did some testing on water adding, and concerning the Amp draw as well, I think it is wise to not let the watter flow straight between your electrodes, at least not at full throttle.

So your tube in a tube looks good, one side closed or restricted water flow. Creating a kind of funnel. ( I hope I make sense ;-)

Your real water flow going true the middle and/or the outside, keeping the space between electrodes "superheated" or around 100C

When I add cold water, I get the best results as I let it "lift"along the flow, adding it near or inside the core will shoot Amp draw up.

PS. I added a drawing of my design. Not showing the rubber spacers.
One spacer at the bottom (1cm) and 4 at the top of the inner tube to prevent shorting.

About "resonance" My device is pretty solid, but does vibrate in all. You can hear the vibrations at start-up quit good, maybe I try to film it.

[daemonbart]

Sinewave!

Hi,

I modified a signal generator.

Br D

So, do you have a variable frequency inverter or are you doing it with a car alternator+motor+variac?

Regards

M

[AhuraMazda]

Hi,

I run with true ac, perfect sinewave, no DC whatsoever. I can adjust my freq
Kind rgds D

So, do you have a variable frequency inverter or are you doing it with a car alternator+motor+variac?

Regards

M

[RAMSET]

D answered you

Ahura
You were answered last page

D
Quote

Hi,

I modified a signal generator.

Br D
--------------

Chet

[AhuraMazda]

Ahura
You were answered last page

D
Quote

Hi,

I modified a signal generator.

Br D
--------------

Chet

I have been having a lot of trouble with accessing energeticforum recently.

So, back to the topic, D, are you feeding the output of the signal generator in to an audio amplifier by any chance?

The reason for my questions is I am working on a variable frequency inverter for this project. My reason is that I will need high voltage, goo amount of power and controlable frequency.

Regards

M