Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[Duncan]

cherryman your link showing error

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Try this

Try this



Two transformers of 120 or 240V to 12v, the high voltage side is the low voltage control side, the diodes should be to handle the voltage and current.
The low voltage DC can be a 9v battery such as PP3

Mike

[Slovenia]

Thanks!!

Thanks Mike for sharing here!!

Try this

[ATTACH]9983[/ATTACH]

Two transformers of 120 or 240V to 12v, the 12v side is the low voltage control side, the diodes should be to handle the voltage and current.
The low voltage DC can be a 9v battery such as PP3

Mike

[evolvingape]

I stand corrected!

Hi Cherryman,

I had not accounted for maximum VA rating of such a relatively large load, thankyou for the correction, and thankyou everyone for proposing the solution. It was a relevant comment in passing as I was not on that page for that reason

I cannot say too much now as I am double checking my calculations but wait a little while and you can read about what I am working on at Environmentally Friendly Engines & Green Solutions | Sea Bird Adventure soon, it will be my first article published on that site (assuming editorial approval of course).

In the meantime if you want to do some essential background reading check these links out, you are going to need to understand this system information in the future anyway, unless your happy with a kettle being the limit of the boilers potential:

Heat capacity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Latent heat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Properties of Saturated Steam - SI Units

Use of enthalpies to calculate energy needed and / or recovered

Steam Tables Online

Rob

[Michael John Nunnerley]

mistake made

Sorry all, have just noticed the mistake I have made in the above post, IT IS NOW CORRECTED. It should read that the mains 120/240v side is the low vltage control side.

My excuse is that I have not been too well in the last few weeks, I am going into hospital on monday for scans etc "hope they do not hit the erase button" as it seems I have had a small stroke which caused me to see double for a few days.

Mike

[PhysicsProf]

Sorry all, have just noticed the mistake I have made in the above post, IT IS NOW CORRECTED. It should read that the mains 120/240v side is the low vltage control side.

My excuse is that I have not been too well in the last few weeks, I am going into hospital on monday for scans etc "hope they do not hit the erase button" as it seems I have had a small stroke which caused me to see double for a few days.

Mike

We're pulling for you, Mike! Hope it goes well Monday. I've appreciated your posts.

[RAMSET]

Keep you in our thoughts and prayers

Michael
Scary thing to have happen!! very controllable too...stay well and please keep us posted !!
Thank you for your contributions here and elsewhere.
Chet

[Duncan]

OK, I have some first results from my sonic boiler (SBSJ1) set up, as shown in photo previously.

I will show my method for determining Pinput and Poutput and the results, and invite comments on both.

I have a CEN-TECH P3 "Kill-a-watt" meter that displays KW-H to 0.01 accuracy. I ran this P3 meter with a load until it just turned on the display to 0.05 KWH. Next I ran my SBSJ1 device until it reached boiling (which stirs the water), stopped registering the time elapsed with a stop-watch, 62 seconds. I quickly measured Temperatures inside the inner bell and between the inner and outer bells using an infrared temp probe.

I let the sbsj1 cool (to 98F) and ran a second time with the same measurements, and this time the P3 turned to 0.06 KWH, so I stopped the run there to take measurements, 31s. The total elapsed time was 62+31 = 93 s.

By using the P3 JUST AS the reading turns to a higher value, increasing by 0.01KWH, I believe the accuracy is quite good, probably within 10% with this method.

Consider a 100W bulb for 1 hour = 0.1 KWH. Thus, 0.01 KWH in 1/10th hour = 6 minutes = 360 s.
Here in my experiment we have 0.01 KWH in 93 seconds, so the power is more than 100W, and I calculate:
Pin = 360s/93s X 100W = 387W.

Next, to calculate the output power, first I calculate the heat-energy Q calorimetrically, using the Temp-rise in the water.
Q = Cg X m X (Tfinal - Tinitial).

For the first run of 62 s, Tfinal - Tinitial = 147Fahr - 83F = 64F = 36Celsius temp rise.
For the second run of 31 s, Tfinal - Tinitial = 145F - 98F = 47F = 26Celsius temp rise.


Here, Q = 4.18 [J/g-C] X 125g X 36C = 18810 J for the first run, and
Q = 4.18 [J/g-C] X 125g X 26C = 14120 J for the second run.
Total heat measured, Qtotal = 32930 J in 93 s, so
Pout = Q/total-time = 32930J/93s = 354W.

Which is less than Pinput.

Finally, I calculate the efficiency n = Pout/Pin = 354W/387W = 0.91. Not surprising -- NO tuning attempted for this base-line run.


Any comments on the method or the results?
Thanks,
Steve

Hi Prof – I'm starting to take issue a tad with what you’ve done here (not that I'm necessary right but we may as well kick it around a little bit,) The first thing to lock onto is you are using an energy meter and so there is a Time component in the readings and so the answer presented in each case should have a time component i.e. KW/H or watt /seconds
as I tend to use deg C I'll ask you to bear with me a little here but here's a useful link to a program that will do most of the work for you Specific Heat
anyway using your test run you have basically taken
(62s + 31s) = 93s to raise 125g of water (36 + 26) = 62Deg C
if this were to be done with 100% efficiency if would take
4.186 x 125 x 62 = 32441.5 Joules = 32441.5 watt/seconds
32441.5/1000 = 32.44 Kw/seconds 32.44/60 = 0.540 KW/ Min 0.540/60 = 0.0090 KW/hr
note prof this is the very best efficiency possible given the mathematical specific heat exchange of water. however you claim to have achieved this temperature rise using only 0.01 Kw/H .. this would give you an efficiency of
0.009Kw/h/0.01kw/h x100% = 90 % now thats a bit more like ... think I'll have to go back to adding school!! in fact Ive also rounded off here and there so your 91% seems on the button

[Duncan]

Sorry all, have just noticed the mistake I have made in the above post, IT IS NOW CORRECTED. It should read that the mains 120/240v side is the low vltage control side.

My excuse is that I have not been too well in the last few weeks, I am going into hospital on monday for scans etc "hope they do not hit the erase button" as it seems I have had a small stroke which caused me to see double for a few days.

Mike

All the very best Mike !! Not the best of starts for 2012 thoughts are with you ..take care

[Slovenia]

New Diagram from Mr. "C"

New Diagram from Mr. "C"

Timothy Thrapp Ultrasonic Water Heater (WITTS)

[Slovenia]

Sorry To Hear!!

Hi Mike,

Sorry to hear about your situation. We are all pulling for you and you are in our prayers too.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Sorry all, have just noticed the mistake I have made in the above post, IT IS NOW CORRECTED. It should read that the mains 120/240v side is the low vltage control side.

My excuse is that I have not been too well in the last few weeks, I am going into hospital on monday for scans etc "hope they do not hit the erase button" as it seems I have had a small stroke which caused me to see double for a few days.

Mike

[Cherryman]

cherryman your link showing error

Strange, this should do it:

Vermogensregelaar 110-240 V~, 4000 VA - Vermogensregelaar-bouwpakketten - Conrad Electronic

Price ain't bad , E 29,-

[grizli]

Second, the cap at the top of the cup or ring must play at 50, 100, 200, 400 Hz.

CAN has to produce harmonics ?

[grizli]

I reviewed the original Peter Davey design, circa 1944 (see attached).

It involves two concentric hemispheres. See attached summary, from Patrick Kelly's "A Practical Guide to ‘Free Energy’ Devices"

Has anyone tried the original Davey design? Seems like a worthwhile thing to do!

THIS MAKES NO SENSE !!!

As you can see Davey heater is VERY SMALL = resonance frequency of that cone is probably VERY HIGH and has nothing to do with 50Hz current

Is not it logical to assume that NUMBER 4, is ELASTIC material , which makes those spheres to resonant at 50hz ONLY by current that goes through !!
WHY would metal have to resonate at 50Hz? we can make two much harder thicker smaller piece of metal (instead beer can or ikea bottle) and connected them with elastic material , that will make them vibrate at 50 hz which is AC current frequency !?!?

[RAMSET]

Professor Savic PLEASE more info

WITTS!! Hot water heater??

Thats the holy Grail !!

Can you add more about the "ultrasonic heater" Part ?

Oh My!!
THX
Chet