Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[Slovenia]

Mr. "C" Reply to Chet

Chet,
Glad you saw ultrasonic heater on forum and asked about it. I have been in contact with Timothy Trampp a year ago and he was trying to make a sonic boiler but could not write to me. I'm very sorry about it. I asked him what frequency ultrasonic boiler for him and he told me to work on three frequencies resonating. I remember the 330 KHz and he told me that he had another hemisphere inside the ball. He lied to me. There is one. The ball resonates at 82.5 KHz to thick hemispherical electrode is zero. Inside the first hemisphere to resonate at 165KHz is the first harmonic. A third small to 330KHz, and it is the second harmonic phase. You saw the same principle in the original Sonic boiler but the AC current sine excitation current. In the ultrasonic 9 V battery and ultrasound vibrates the crystal lattice of metal to cause the collapse of the electron and the vacuum energy withdraw from the system of high frequency.

The ultrasonic boiler must not be used to water heated to 50 C, and put it on him.
If you put tap into it and changing the frequency does not work (not heated).

Answer your questions?

WITTS!! Hot water heater??

Thats the holy Grail !!

Can you add more about the "ultrasonic heater" Part ?

Oh My!!
THX
Chet

[Cherryman]

@Prof,

Good work. About the insulation, I read about at the neighbors, tinfoil around it.. Could that be dangerous?
(Leyden Jar) I'm no expert, so it might not be related, but with these voltages and boiling water.. Anyway,

Keep up the good work!

[Slovenia]

Can Tuning

Can needs to be tuned to 50 Hz for EU and 60 Hz for USA. When properly fitted with the right ring and gap, the can will play at a higher level. If I recall right, 300 Hz for EU and 400 Hz for USA. That's from memory. If it is tuned properly to Mr. "C"s specs, it will operate at a COP of 10 for EU and COP of 12 for USA.

That was Mr. "C"s post. I don't know anything about harmonics myself.

CAN has to produce harmonics ?

[grizli]

Can needs to be tuned to 50 Hz for EU and 60 Hz for USA. When properly fitted with the right ring and gap, the can will play at a higher level. If I recall right, 300 Hz for EU and 400 Hz for USA. That's from memory. If it is tuned properly to Mr. "C"s specs, it will operate at a COP of 10 for EU and COP of 12 for USA.

That was Mr. "C"s post. I don't know anything about harmonics myself.

Hmm, I am very busy lately, and currently dot have time to look for all posts on the forum, but have you tried so far beer can and got OU or got OU with other principle ?

I wonder,why using physical acoustic properties of metal objects , when we can use current with all harmonics we need, hmm? maybe effect will be the same or maybe better(or worse) .

For example class D amplifier (more than 90% eff) that drives electrodes maybe may be used , and for input signal we use simple sine or wave that has many harmonics .. 50 hz 500 hz etc,,.
But instead making complex metal object we may use simple two plates , which will be vibrated by current that contains desired harmonics

[quantumuppercut]

OK, I have some first results from my sonic boiler (SBSJ1) set up, as shown in photo previously.

I will show my method for determining Pinput and Poutput and the results, and invite comments on both.

I have a CEN-TECH P3 "Kill-a-watt" meter that displays KW-H to 0.01 accuracy. I ran this P3 meter with a load until it just turned on the display to 0.05 KWH. Next I ran my SBSJ1 device until it reached boiling (which stirs the water), stopped registering the time elapsed with a stop-watch, 62 seconds. I quickly measured Temperatures inside the inner bell and between the inner and outer bells using an infrared temp probe.

I let the sbsj1 cool (to 98F) and ran a second time with the same measurements, and this time the P3 turned to 0.06 KWH, so I stopped the run there to take measurements, 31s. The total elapsed time was 62+31 = 93 s.

By using the P3 JUST AS the reading turns to a higher value, increasing by 0.01KWH, I believe the accuracy is quite good, probably within 10% with this method.

Consider a 100W bulb for 1 hour = 0.1 KWH. Thus, 0.01 KWH in 1/10th hour = 6 minutes = 360 s.
Here in my experiment we have 0.01 KWH in 93 seconds, so the power is more than 100W, and I calculate:
Pin = 360s/93s X 100W = 387W.

Next, to calculate the output power, first I calculate the heat-energy Q calorimetrically, using the Temp-rise in the water.
Q = Cg X m X (Tfinal - Tinitial).

For the first run of 62 s, Tfinal - Tinitial = 147Fahr - 83F = 64F = 36Celsius temp rise.
For the second run of 31 s, Tfinal - Tinitial = 145F - 98F = 47F = 26Celsius temp rise.


Here, Q = 4.18 [J/g-C] X 125g X 36C = 18810 J for the first run, and
Q = 4.18 [J/g-C] X 125g X 26C = 14120 J for the second run.
Total heat measured, Qtotal = 32930 J in 93 s, so
Pout = Q/total-time = 32930J/93s = 354W.

Which is less than Pinput.

Finally, I calculate the efficiency n = Pout/Pin = 354W/387W = 0.91. Not surprising -- NO tuning attempted for this base-line run.


Any comments on the method or the results?
Thanks,
Steve

Good test run. At least we know what to expect from resistive heating (hopefully it is not tuned as you said lol) I see you have to watch each time the number jump on KWH. Each jump is 36000J, ouch. This is why you have to stop the test to cool the boiler down and continue just to meet the jump.

If the meter has watts displace, we can use that to shorten the test time, but in turn using power for COP like you're doing.

[Slovenia]

OU

We have people on this forum who are getting OU with these principles. I won't mention any names, but they are getting it. The key is to tune the tube to the appropriate frequency either by sanding or electronic means. If you get it tuned to the right frequency and then you get your ring the right gap, then you will enjoy OU. The dimensions of the ring are important too as well as the diameter and thickness of the tube metal.

Hmm, I am very busy lately, and currently dot have time to look for all posts on the forum, but have you tried so far beer can and got OU or got OU with other principle ?

I wonder,why using physical acoustic properties of metal objects , when we can use current with all harmonics we need, hmm? maybe effect will be the same or maybe better(or worse) .

For example class D amplifier (more than 90% eff) that drives electrodes maybe may be used , and for input signal we use simple sine or wave that has many harmonics .. 50 hz 500 hz etc,,.
But instead making complex metal object we may use simple two plates , which will be vibrated by current that contains desired harmonics

[RAMSET]

Thank you to Mr.C

Quote:
Chet,
Glad you saw ultrasonic heater on forum and asked about it. I have been in contact with Timothy Trampp a year ago and he was trying to make a sonic boiler but could not write to me. I'm very sorry about it. I asked him what frequency ultrasonic boiler for him and he told me to work on three frequencies resonating. I remember the 330 KHz and he told me that he had another hemisphere inside the ball. He lied to me. There is one. The ball resonates at 82.5 KHz to thick hemispherical electrode is zero. Inside the first hemisphere to resonate at 165KHz is the first harmonic. A third small to 330KHz, and it is the second harmonic phase. You saw the same principle in the original Sonic boiler but the AC current sine excitation current. In the ultrasonic 9 V battery and ultrasound vibrates the crystal lattice of metal to cause the collapse of the electron and the vacuum energy withdraw from the system of high frequency.

The ultrasonic boiler must not be used to water heated to 50 C, and put it on him.
If you put tap into it and changing the frequency does not work (not heated).

Answer your questions?

-----------------------------------
Thank you for that answer this one looks trickier !
I suppose we'll be learning more and more as time goes on !

How is young Branislov doing?

Chet

[Slovenia]

Branislav Illness Update

He's not doing well. He was allowed home for the weekend but will be returning to hospital Monday. He still has blood in his stool. They can't seem to get that stopped.

How is young Branislov doing?
Chet

[Slovenia]

Easiest OU Device on Energetic

This is by far the easiest device to make on Energetic Forum or for that fact anywhere, so I don't see why others are not doing it. Maybe it seems to easy; Maybe they don't believe it's OU; Maybe they are lazy; Maybe they are not builders?? Tuning of the cans by sanding takes a lot of time but can be done and for those who don't want to sand to tune, Daemonbart has shared other options.

[Cherryman]

Next step

So I finally took the drill and made setup capable of resonating/vibrating.

Drilled a hole in both bottoms, made an isolated connection and connected the wires at the bottom.

The drawing below is an accurate representation of my device.

- Green is rubber isolation
- Blue is one phase
- Lavender is the other phase

When I ping them they give a nice tone now ( Due to removal of crocodile wire connections at the top and side spacers) , I tried to find the frequency with a Visual Analyzer, but It seems I have to study the Visual Analizer first I seem to have a peak always at 50Hz, I assume this is interference from my mains.
Visual Analyser details





First impression: A small test showed high Amps! Not done proper measurement yet, but it looks like much higher amp draw. Example, while boiling first setup real time use around 700 <> 1000 W , this version uses around 1500 <> 1900 W
The Boiling seems more aggressive ( Which would be suspected as of the higher W use)

Ok So far this little update

Peace (And health) for All.

[wrtner]

I reviewed the original Peter Davey design, circa 1944 (see attached).

It involves two concentric hemispheres. See attached summary, from Patrick Kelly's "A Practical Guide to ‘Free Energy’ Devices"

Has anyone tried the original Davey design? Seems like a worthwhile thing to do!

Yes, there is a thread here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...er-heater.html

Since the bowls are usually small, there is no question of tuning
to the mains frequency of 50hz (or sometimes 60hz). Instead,
people are tuning to an octave, namely 100, 200, 400 etc
(or in the States with 60hz, 120, 240, 480hz etc).

i.e. octaves and NOT harmonics.

It is imprtant to note that the bowls should be tuned "in situ".
If they are tuned on the bench, and then assembled, the resonant
frequency usually changes because the manner of holding the
bowl changes.

Paul-R

[evolvingape]

Since the bowls are usually small, there is no question of tuning
to the mains frequency of 50hz (or sometimes 60hz). Instead,
people are tuning to an octave, namely 100, 200, 400 etc
(or in the States with 60hz, 120, 240, 480hz etc).

i.e. octaves and NOT harmonics.

It is imprtant to note that the bowls should be tuned "in situ".
If they are tuned on the bench, and then assembled, the resonant
frequency usually changes because the manner of holding the
bowl changes.

Paul-R

Hi,

The above quote is not entirely correct. When discussing vibration in relation to harmonics reference must be made to the fundamental frequency (f). In the above example 50Hz is not the fundamental frequency, 1Hz is the fundamental frequency as we are measuring in reference to complete cycles per second. So in actual fact the mains AC electricity is oscillating at a frequency of 50f or 50 complete cycles per second which is 50Hz.

So for the given example of tuning to 100, 200, 400 HZ we are in fact tuning to a frequency of 100f, 200f, 400f respective to the fundamental frequency.

An octave is either 1/2n or 2n in respect to a given harmonic of n. It is possible to tune to a frequency which is a harmonic, and which is also an octave of a lower or higher harmonic.

You must also consider that when tuning via sound you are measuring the harmonic of the fluid column within the tube or bell etc and not the vibratory rate of the solids molecules within the structure itself.

When submersed under water you would need a hydrophone (underwater microphone) to measure the frequency which will be different to an air measurement due to the differing densities of water and air which alters the speed at which sound will propogate through that medium.

The AC electrical signal is an electromagnetic phenomenon and not a sonic phenomenon and so the only relationship between the two is cycles per second of the mediums, measured in Hertz.

If you wanted to measure the actual vibratory oscillation rate of the mechanical structure of your device (tube, bell, etc) you would use an accelerometer which would record the oscillations and tell you the frequency of vibration. You might be able to get a small cheap accelerometer with the appropiate diagnostic software for your computer from the RC model aircraft industry, amongst other industries, alternatively you can google or have a look on youtube how to build an accelerometer.

Rob

Fundamental frequency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hertz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Harmonic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Octave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Accelerometer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[RAMSET]

Rob You truly are amazing Bud!

Thank you so much ...
you leave me at a lack for words .

unbelievable how you grasp and explain things!!

Chet

[MonsieurM]

evolvingape, I think you might like this

from: Triangle Book - Iona Miller Home, 2012





from: caduceus3

KeelyNet.com ( MAY 11, 1994 )
CADUFAZE.ASC
by Joel McClain

In looking at the presumed design of the Sweet VTA, (presumed as a result of the lack of detailed information available) I have coined the term "alternate depletion" to describe its method of attaining ZP energy.

We know from conventional transformer theory that a transformer will reverse the phase of the primary signal in the secondary winding. This is caused by the inverse relationship of EMF and CEMF in the core of the transformer. Typically, the core is made of iron laminates, or some other ferrous material. The Sweet VTA uses this principle in a manner which uses the phase reversal to cause a cascade of energies.

The dual caduceus coils ( DMC coil is a variant of it ) are seen as next to each other, which permits inductive coupling, and within the field of opposing magnetic fields, which creates a stress within the cores of the caduceus coils. At the crossover points of each coil, the flux collapse is "assisted" by the stress field of the core. The stress field, similar to a conventional electric generator, oscillates the lattice structure of the copper wire, causing movement of electrons.

Energy "stored" in the stress field is added to the energy of the original flux collapse, because it is "pushed" in by the opposing energy of the other caduceus coil. That is the effect of reversed phasing, as mentioned earlier. While one crossover field is collapsing, the corresponding coil is expanding, which adds more stress field energy than that which was originally "displaced".

This continues to occur at each crossover point. The displacement caused by the "push" results in am imbalance in the stress field. As the process reverses, and the alternate coil's field collapses, it is aided by the "push" from the expanding field of the first coil. The current induced in the second coil is greater than the current in the first coil, because the "push" of the first coil is composed of its original energy, plus the "push" of the first coil.

This continues to increase the energy at each crossover point, yielding far greater energy at the output of the coils than that which was used to begin the process. The energy is amplified through each winding in a cascade effect.

Core saturation, normally undesirable in a power transformer, is required in the Sweet VTA design. The power attained will depend upon the strength of the cores. Power will increase until the core is saturated, and no longer able to expand energy into the magnetic field.

Why does the field collapse at each winding? This is at the heart of every caduceus coil. When wires are laid over each other, a capacitance is formed, and the capacitance cancels the inductance of the windings before the crossover point. This causes field collapse into the core, and then into the next winding.

A Tesla coil uses the same principle, in that a frequency is applied which is resonant at the value of LC, causing the series impedance to consist of wire resistance only.

From this, we can see that the current which is used to excite a caduceus coil must also be resonant relative to the length of the windings and the amount of crossover capacitance. To determine the appropriate frequency, the volume of the core as well as a resonating chamber must also be taken into account. The core is essentially a resonant cavity, and you need to apply a frequency which will cause it to resonate.

Think of the core as a hollow cylinder, to which you will apply a musical note until it resonates. The core density is irrelevant to resonance, and applies only when considering saturation. Try using an ordinary "tin can", opened on one end, and apply acoustic energy until you reach resonance, and hear the energy "ringing" back at you. (like the B Flat experience )

Having determined the resonant frequency of the core, then add the windings as if they were the holes in a flute, with a crossover at each "hole". In other words, even spacing is not going to work. Each crossover needs to be preceded by a length of wire which is calculated based upon the PHI relationship to resonance. (harmonic Math )

The caduceus coil has to attain aggregate resonance before it can produce an over-unity effect (I prefer Unity ), so each of the seven crossovers is a whole note on the diatonic scale. In other words, use alternate cube and square roots of PHI (1.618) times the length of the previous winding to determine the length of the next winding.

In this way, every winding is both a note as well as a harmonic of another winding.

Both coils of the Sweet VTA must be wound identically, placed side by side, and centered in the magnetic stress field. The primary for each coil should apply a low level signal at the resonant frequency, and the primaries should be 180 degrees out of phase with each other to aid in the expansion and collapse of the flux fields

[Cherryman]

8 liter test

Did a test with my new set up. (For the record: A non tuned, different design, just to toy with the idea)

Ltr S-Temp E-Temp Delta-T kWh kWhNormal Efficiency
8 23 72 770 0,500 0,510 1,02



I do have boiling now from the outside and underneath as well, here is a short clip: Outside boiling - YouTube