Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[wrtner]

Thanks.
What I ask and what answer you !

You have to remember that this is about ringing and resonance.
Accuracy of the tuning is what gets the performance.
You need decent bowls, not beer cans.
Remember to tune to an octave of YOUR mains frequency.
Best of all, put a cheap speaker across your mains with a fat resistor.

[wrtner]

*** An interesting opportunity ***

In the UK, the store Robert Dyas are selling a two wok set at
considerably reduced price.

One is 25cm rim diameter and the other 30cm

These might well fit very well together in a Peter Daysh Davey
set-up, and it may be possible to tune to the fundamental mains
AC frequency, 50hz or 60 hz.

CS00634 Kitchen Essentials Big Wok Little Wok - Robert Dyas -

But there is another possibility mentioned by me at Patrick's 2008 UK Free
Energy Conference, namely this:

The woks could be tuned to exactly the same note REGARDLESS of
local AC frequency. A micrphone in the water will pick up the sound
that they ring at. This is fed to an amplifier and the output of that
amplifier goes to the woks.

This has the benefit that it can easily run off batteries and the
amp, which needs to be mono only, could be built ultimately out
of components (instead of using a Hi-Fi amp).

The other huge advantage is that if one fails to get the woks tuned
to the first attempted frequency, one can grind more and go for the
next one. (You can't do this when going for 50hz. If you miss that,
you have to go for the next octave, 100hz, which will mean cutting
a huge amount of wok away).

[wrtner]

The woks could be tuned to exactly the same note REGARDLESS of
local AC frequency. A micrphone in the water will pick up the sound
that they ring at. This is fed to an amplifier and the output of that
amplifier goes to the woks.

...remembering, as you will, that Hi Fi amplifiers expect a certain
impedance at the output or you may find their output transistors
blow. An impedance matching transformer may be needed.

[Duncan]

a nagging doubt from my back pages!

So I posted on this lethal contraption long ago, I also did a short suicidal video, since then I have had a nagging doubt , something missed .. here it is , first this video.. let me explain is simply of two stainless steel spoons separated by lighting flex and then dropped in a jam jar of tap water.
The whole being plugged into a 240v mains supply. The meter connected is on a 10A FSD scale.
I'm afraid the meter needle is quite difficult to see, however you'll see it in the mirror if you watch carefully.
Its inconceivable the grid voltage would alter, therefore the current is directly proportional to power
being used. I would have assumed this current to be pretty much linear however it is anything but that, notice at the start there is very little current draw in fact the needle only just makes it off the stop slowly rising until the water is first boiling and then boiling furiously at which point the current draw drops away quickly again to pretty negligible.
bubble.wmv - YouTube
Quite apart from the inherent danger of this thing (and Peter Daveys) which I dare say can be overcome the first question that comes to mind is what if a heat exchanger were used all be it with a very slow flow rate so keeping temperature at a slow boil?
Obviously the distance between the spoons (cones) also has a dramatic non linear effect. Indeed I would contend that this is really a “capacitor” and the dielectric is water.
C = ε₀εr(A/d) in Farads (But asymmetrical variable plates of course in the case of Davey's machine)
It also strikes me that Peter Davey's “bells” would actually have very little water (dialectic)
In contact with “The plates” The thing may be submerged in water but very little water would actually enter the chamber (assuming its air tight) ... just think of putting a jam jar upside down in water .. very little water actually enters the jar .. As the water heats and boils the pressure difference alters .. more water is forced out of the cones. Which again of course is a “non linear action” tracking and holding electrical resonance?
I would suggest then that perhaps the shape of those cones alters the capacitance as a “counter poise” to the rapidly changing “Real power” consumption. This also opens up the tempting possibility that as in theory a capacitor uses no power could this possibly be reactive current generating heat ?… That of course would break a few rules! How to demonstrate it ? Distilled water perhaps?
Its just conjecture of course but it would really be nice to fully document and resolve one of these
enigma's that folks seem determined to take to the grave with them !
your thoughts ladies and gents

[boguslaw]

So I posted on this lethal contraption long ago, I also did a short suicidal video, since then I have had a nagging doubt , something missed .. here it is , first this video.. let me explain is simply of two stainless steel spoons separated by lighting flex and then dropped in a jam jar of tap water.
The whole being plugged into a 240v mains supply. The meter connected is on a 10A FSD scale.
I'm afraid the meter needle is quite difficult to see, however you'll see it in the mirror if you watch carefully.
Its inconceivable the grid voltage would alter, therefore the current is directly proportional to power
being used. I would have assumed this current to be pretty much linear however it is anything but that, notice at the start there is very little current draw in fact the needle only just makes it off the stop slowly rising until the water is first boiling and then boiling furiously at which point the current draw drops away quickly again to pretty negligible.
bubble.wmv - YouTube
Quite apart from the inherent danger of this thing (and Peter Daveys) which I dare say can be overcome the first question that comes to mind is what if a heat exchanger were used all be it with a very slow flow rate so keeping temperature at a slow boil?
Obviously the distance between the spoons (cones) also has a dramatic non linear effect. Indeed I would contend that this is really a “capacitor” and the dielectric is water.
C = ε₀εr(A/d) in Farads (But asymmetrical variable plates of course in the case of Davey's machine)
It also strikes me that Peter Davey's “bells” would actually have very little water (dialectic)
In contact with “The plates” The thing may be submerged in water but very little water would actually enter the chamber (assuming its air tight) ... just think of putting a jam jar upside down in water .. very little water actually enters the jar .. As the water heats and boils the pressure difference alters .. more water is forced out of the cones. Which again of course is a “non linear action” tracking and holding electrical resonance?
I would suggest then that perhaps the shape of those cones alters the capacitance as a “counter poise” to the rapidly changing “Real power” consumption. This also opens up the tempting possibility that as in theory a capacitor uses no power could this possibly be reactive current generating heat ?… That of course would break a few rules! How to demonstrate it ? Distilled water perhaps?
Its just conjecture of course but it would really be nice to fully document and resolve one of these
enigma's that folks seem determined to take to the grave with them !
your thoughts ladies and gents

good ideas Duncan, however I still state it is due to sonic vibration changing the intermolecular bondings. I can feel exactly that weird action on my hand after a long usage of oscillating hand grinder. The area between electrodes become full of steam and magneto or electrostriction effect cause water vibration and faster heat up.

[wrtner]

If you are worried about the voltage, you can always use a variac. Also, so long as the bells are tuned to each other, you can supply any AC voltage at that particular frequency.

I think water hammer and some of John Worrell Keely's ideas are involved.

[Duncan]

Yeah Peter Davey actually says "sonic" and I don't doubt, I wasn't meaning to indicate either/ or but rather "and & also" sonic yes but reactive up through "sympathetic frequencies" and so "electric" also as part of the spectrum ..still as I say just thoughts on this old project and wondering about a better way to tune , I too have done that angle grinder and file business .. very hit and miss

[Duncan]

The bells .. the bells

Soooo Bells have been cast for thousands of years ,obviously when used,, as they very often are, in sets the tones must match, therefore there is obviously a fundamental formula for casting and the all important proportions in order the have the correct frequency response … so anybody having a link to this common often used formula of proportion will be well thanked
https://www.msu.edu/~carillon./batmbook/chapter5.htm

[wrtner]

Soooo Bells have been cast for thousands of years ,obviously when used,, as they very often are, in sets the tones must match, therefore there is obviously a fundamental formula for casting and the all important proportions in order the have the correct frequency response … so anybody having a link to this common often used formula of proportion will be well thanked
https://www.msu.edu/~carillon./batmbook/chapter5.htm

An interesting link. Have you found a similar page on straightforward hemisherical bodies? Like woks.

[greatwest1]

volume 1 - where is it ?

Make sure you check out Vol #2 also. This guy, Joseph Cater, is incredible so you don't want to miss anything. He brings a lot of stuff to light that few other authors address. A lot of forgotten folks are brought up in his books.

I tried the link for vol. # 1 and it was a dead end.
Could someone re post it for me and perhaps others ?
Many thanks, vol.2 is absolutely amazing !
So much to learn .... Lol !
Tx. Greg.

[wrtner]

I tried the link for vol. # 1 and it was a dead end.
Could someone re post it for me and perhaps others ?
Many thanks, vol.2 is absolutely amazing !
So much to learn .... Lol !
Tx. Greg.

Where is the post that you are quoting from? What page?

[Bob Smith]

Dumas Effect

The Dumas Effect strikes me as quite similar to the one being discussed. Maybe it's the same idea. Dumas himself made everything open-source, and it seems people in France are using it to heat their homes with a 116%COP. Here's a video that I've cued up to where Dumas himself speaks. It's in French with Eng subtitles; lots more in French as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...11hlTTMo#t=154
Bob

[RAMSET]

Knock Knock David [Slovenia :'} ]

Bob
Thanks for posting that ,The best we could get in USA [110V 60 HZ] was similar to this "DUMAS" claim COP 1,10-1.50

HOWEVER, we needed Electrolyte to reach those COP's
end to be honest ,it is not outside of "error window".

HOWEVER<HOWEVER

we have learned some things since those days about water.

some new ideas to try [thx Johan 1955]

looks like we'll be playing in the water with Mains voltage again .....
drives some Peeps crazy .

and yes "Paul" [and all] it is dangerous...

thx
Chet

[gyula]

I tried the link for vol. # 1 and it was a dead end.
Could someone re post it for me and perhaps others ?
Many thanks, vol.2 is absolutely amazing !
So much to learn .... Lol !
Tx. Greg.

Hi Greg,

Volume 1 seems to be available (freely readable) only on scribd.com:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/47554465/...-Reality-Vol-1

Gyula

[Bob Smith]

Bob
Thanks for posting that ,The best we could get in USA [110V 60 HZ] was similar to this "DUMAS" claim COP 1,10-1.50

HOWEVER, we needed Electrolyte to reach those COP's
end to be honest ,it is not outside of "error window".

HOWEVER<HOWEVER

we have learned some things since those days about water.

some new ideas to try [thx Johan 1955]

looks like we'll be playing in the water with Mains voltage again .....
drives some Peeps crazy .

and yes "Paul" [and all] it is dangerous...

thx
Chet

Chet,
From what I see in Dumas' presentation, I'm inclined to believe the key to this whole thing (in the Dumas setup) is the golden mean, which dictates the gap between cathode and anode. And while mains voltage allegedly works in his system and is freely accessible, perhaps it isn't really necessary. I would not be surprised if someone were able to drive this system with an AA or 9V battery and simple AC producing circuit; perhaps even a 555 switch and square wave.
Bob