New Patent Law

[Bizzy]

Today Obama signed a new law which will overhaul the patent system. The previous law stated that the "first to invent" owned the idea. However now the rule states the "first to file" owns the idea.
My question as tinkers, inventors and experimenters we could be greatly affected, do you agree with the new law or not?

[Shadesz]

We need to read the bill in its entirety. This could be a huge problem for the open source community. I mean huge!

Think about it. If you open source an idea, according to what Bizzy wrote, you never owned it. The open source world never owned it either. The perosn that owns it is the first person to put a patent on it. Now any corporation or government can browse the open source community and pick any technology they want... Can you say easy theft and governmental control of the open source community???

That's not good. Not good at all.

Seriously I need to read the bill, but to me, this could be a governmental attempt to stop the open source community.

But so far this is speculation. Does anyone have a link to the actual bill?

[Bizzy]

We need to read the bill in its entirety. This could be a huge problem for the open source community. I mean huge!

Think about it. If you open source an idea, according to what Bizzy wrote, you never owned it. The open source world never owned it either. The perosn that owns it is the first person to put a patent on it. Now any corporation or government can browse the open source community and pick any technology they want... Can you say easy theft and governmental control of the open source community???

That's not good. Not good at all.

Seriously I need to read the bill, but to me, this could be a governmental attempt to stop the open source community.

But so far this is speculation. Does anyone have a link to the actual bill?

Hi Shadesz,
I agree this could have very hard and long lasting repercusions in the open source community such as ours. It could actually stop the flow of information between people such as our selves for fear that some lawyer will see our idea and file the patent, then sue us for using our own idea. it reeks of 1984
I have not seen a copy of the law yet. There are discprictions of it in yahoo.com as well as foxnews.com
Bizzy

[MonsieurM]

the devil is in the details...

search for the loophole

[jibbguy]

The inability to patent something that already exists in the public realm is still there; its a pretty solid concept of invention that is unlikely to change.

[Farmhand]

I agree with jibbguy, I think still to get a patent the invention will need to be new and novel, not known to a lot of people (publicly disclosed). If something is already known it is not new and therefore not a new invention, therefore unpatentable. (spelling)

I don't think there is any way they get around that. For eg. Say a device like a "joule thief" was never patented but disclosed in public forum where it was explained how it works and other people start building them. I can't go to the patent office with that to get a patent and even if I did and they gave me a patent it would be useless because the device is not new and novel.

Might not stop them trying to enforce it. Also as it already stands anyone can build any patented device as long as they don't sell them or make money from them. This is more a thing about two separate people that get the same idea but don't know each other and file.

However I think it could still have an effect on open source and sharing for sure. In my opinion as much as I don't like patents, the fairest way is the first to invent get the patent.

One big problem with the first to invent gets the patent method is that if I was to invent a patentable device and do all the right things pay the money and get the patent. Then if some guy already invented it but didn't patent it and just was using it and made some for his friends and family (so provable)
What happens then ? The patent holder is clearly not the first to invent but the other guy doesn't want a patent.

I would say the guy who filed keeps his patent, or the patent is cancelled and no one gets one.

Or if the guy already using in the backyard (he invented it first) see's all the money the other guy is making he could contest the patent and ruin the patent holders buisness, even though the patent holder did not know of the other guy and did everything by law.

It's all a bit strange.

Cheers

[Kokomoj0]

I am not so sure it was designed to work that way.

My guess is that someone got paid off, to run that through so some one else can patent an existing device that is not new and novel and hold production rights.

I cannot think of any other reason why they would change it to "first filed"?

[mbrownn]

This is setup to enable patent theft and make it legal.

If someone can prove they had an idea first then of course they should get royalties, this is legalizing what Marconi did to Tesla.

Some sort of sharing and balance needs to be included but let us not forget, if it has to be legislated then its not natural law.

[Bizzy]

Good morning
I apologize for not being able to post anything further on this yesterday(I was busy with a deadbeat customer yetserday)
Regardless here is a link that gives some more detail about the "first to file" part of the new patent law.

New law changes system for awarding patents – USATODAY.com

I also asked my congressman for a copy of the new law if he actually does send it I will post an actual copy.
I wonder if there is any way Aaron or any open sorce site can insulate the members against this to keep the flow of ideas moving. Perhaps with a a waiver coming into the site.

If Aaron or any lawyers out there care to commwent it would be most appreciated.
Bizzy

[Iotayodi]

I agree with mbrownn. Its not cheap doing a patent search and that gives corporations an advantage. Of course if its a real winner that wont be suppressed, then a bank loan or loan of some type shouldnt be too hard to get.

[Dave45]

Originally Posted by Dave45 View Post
This new patent law is making everyone greedy, and is a way to silence free energy systems.

I wonder under the old law even if it was patented you could still build it but could not sell it, I wonder if this has changed.
Someone should really check this out.
Dave

If this has changed it would make free energy devices illegal to own.

I dont know if this has changed, but needs to be investigated.
Dave

[Bizzy]

If this has changed it would make free energy devices illegal to own.

I dont know if this has changed, but needs to be investigated.
Dave

Hi Dave
As far as the US is concerned this is definately a change. Another question which may help us is...other nations have this patent law ("first to file" owns the idea), so how are open source ideas treated in those countries?
Bizzy

[Slider2732]

As free R+D I would imagine Bizzy

Most of us here work with each other, report findings, change something til it works and then we all carry along having fun and working with the new device. A prime example would be what hooked me into this place, the Joule Thief type exciter thread. Execs likely take short cuts and claim work of their own after reading such things, threads of worth financially. Why do it all twice, ya know.

But, we would never Patent such things, community interactive threads with eventual working devices that are improvements to something known of before. How could one entity, person, or company take all that work and say that they alone would profit financially ?
Guess it's ethics.
Many Open Source projects could feasibly have Patents...I mean, the article about the law change above cites one guy with some kind of drawer in a coffee machine
Is it much like that nowadays ? a new stitch for the hem of a skirt and such twaddle ?

What I would like to see, are pro-bono lawyers for this type of forum.
It's worth it to them, because occasionally there would be a real winner and a system of donations from end users, or sales from kits made or whatever would pay the lawyer.
Worth it to us, because corporate greed stays out of the equation...the Patent is filed but the enforcement is disregarded for non corporate uses

[Bizzy]

As free R+D I would imagine Bizzy

Most of us here work with each other, report findings, change something til it works and then we all carry along having fun and working with the new device. A prime example would be what hooked me into this place, the Joule Thief type exciter thread. Execs likely take short cuts and claim work of their own after reading such things, threads of worth financially. Why do it all twice, ya know.

But, we would never Patent such things, community interactive threads with eventual working devices that are improvements to something known of before. How could one entity, person, or company take all that work and say that they alone would profit financially ?
Guess it's ethics.
Many Open Source projects could feasibly have Patents...I mean, the article about the law change above cites one guy with some kind of drawer in a coffee machine
Is it much like that nowadays ? a new stitch for the hem of a skirt and such twaddle ?

What I would like to see, are pro-bono lawyers for this type of forum.
It's worth it to them, because occasionally there would be a real winner and a system of donations from end users, or sales from kits made or whatever would pay the lawyer.
Worth it to us, because corporate greed stays out of the equation...the Patent is filed but the enforcement is disregarded for non corporate uses

Hi Mark
Its good to hear from you again!
As some one who is actively working on several ideas I guess my biggest fear is to come up with a great idea and share it with you folks only to have some lawyer come along, steal the idea and patent it then turn around and sue me for using my own invention. Aaron can atest to that.
I also fear that men like John Bedini whom I have a great respect for, will also see this as a threat and stop offering thier ideas and help to open source folks like ourselves simply out of self preservation. Honestly I won't hold it against him if he did.
In short I fear that this new law will severly hurt the free flow of open source ideas. At which time the powers that be will have us divided and can conquer us. Ok I know that should probably be in Rick's thread but the idea is still worthy of concern
Bizzy

[Shadesz]

It looks like we need to hurry and brake the current system with a worldwide release of a FE device.