Can we use a LC tank for magnetic gain?

[dutchguy]

Different inventors in the alternative energy development use combinations of inductors and capacitors.

A LC tank is a special configuration with a specific resonant frequency.
At this frequency you can excite the LC tank and get extra circulating energy between L and C, depending on the Q factor of the tank.

The circulating current is not drawn from the source, but creates a magnetic field in L.

Can we use these specific properties of the LC tank to gain (magnetic) energy, without draining the source?

Is it possible to extract the extra magnetic energy, and how can we achieve that?

[SilverToGold]

Your best bet is to probably use inductive parametric variation and to draw off the power from an extra "uncoupled" coil that draws power from the variation in the inductance parameter.

It's mostly explained in this thread near the end.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ve-spring.html

Study what Eric Dollard says on this topic and lots of good info in that thread.

[mbrownn]

Different inventors in the alternative energy development use combinations of inductors and capacitors.

A LC tank is a special configuration with a specific resonant frequency.
At this frequency you can excite the LC tank and get extra circulating energy between L and C, depending on the Q factor of the tank.

The circulating current is not drawn from the source, but creates a magnetic field in L.

Can we use these specific properties of the LC tank to gain (magnetic) energy, without draining the source?

Is it possible to extract the extra magnetic energy, and how can we achieve that?

No as you always have losses, but you need to make the current flow in one direction and this is done by pulsing and not oscillating such as in a tank circuit. you have to separate the capacitor from the inductor and reverse the polarity to collect the current in the right direction then switch it back and pulse it again.

The amount recovered is then topped back up to the original amount and you have a circuit running on many times the power of the input. In this system you are powering the losses and not the load.

Its a modified tank circuit.

[Web000x]

Different inventors in the alternative energy development use combinations of inductors and capacitors.

A LC tank is a special configuration with a specific resonant frequency.
At this frequency you can excite the LC tank and get extra circulating energy between L and C, depending on the Q factor of the tank.

The circulating current is not drawn from the source, but creates a magnetic field in L.

Can we use these specific properties of the LC tank to gain (magnetic) energy, without draining the source?

Is it possible to extract the extra magnetic energy, and how can we achieve that?

If your LC circuit isn't already coupled to a mechanical system such as a motor shaft synchronously meshing with the frequency of the LC oscillations, it will be very hard to "take" the extra magnetic energy. As soon as you try to tap into the extra magnetism, you change the circuits "ability to store magnetism" which equates to change in inductance. Your circuit is now out of resonance.

Follow SilverToGold's suggestion on intentional inductance parameter variation. Eric Dollard said "Alexanderson Magamp is definitely the way to go."

Dave

[mbrownn]

I didnt explain very well so here is a circuit that shows it.

go to Circuit Simulator Applet and import the following text

$ 3 4.0E-7 1.3804574186067096 72 5.0 50
l 456 304 456 352 0 16.0 0.006971973230750467
v 584 400 584 384 0 2 60000.0 12.0 12.0 0.0 0.5
178 584 352 616 352 0 2 2.0E-8 1.2000000000000455 0.05 1000000.0 0.02 20.0
w 584 304 456 304 0
v 784 368 784 320 0 0 40.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 616 320 656 320 0
w 616 368 656 368 0
d 784 320 656 320 1 0.805904783
w 584 352 456 352 0
r 656 368 784 368 0 100.0
c 656 320 656 368 0 3.9999999999999996E-4 11.426268557631277
w 616 336 616 320 0
w 616 288 824 288 0
w 824 288 824 384 0
w 824 384 616 384 0
w 616 384 616 368 0
o 0 2 1 291 0.625 9.765625E-5 0 -1
o 10 2 1 291 0.625 9.765625E-5 1 -1
o 7 2 1 35 3.0517578125E-4 9.765625E-5 2 -1
o 9 2 1 291 5.575186299632655E-7 9.765625E-55 3 -1
o 4 2 1 35 0.0011417981541647678 9.765625E-55 4 -1

[mbrownn]

If your LC circuit isn't already coupled to a mechanical system such as a motor shaft synchronously meshing with the frequency of the LC oscillations, it will be very hard to "take" the extra magnetic energy. As soon as you try to tap into the extra magnetism, you change the circuits "ability to store magnetism" which equates to change in inductance. Your circuit is now out of resonance.

Follow SilverToGold's suggestion on intentional inductance parameter variation. Eric Dollard said "Alexanderson Magamp is definitely the way to go."

Dave

Yes this is one of the problems

[boguslaw]

The problem is in changing RCL resonant frequency when adding load to the output stage. Lenz law is not a problem.

[mbrownn]

I am hoping it will adjust its frequency all by itself in a mechanical commutative system. As the load increases the speed drops, if the inductance increases it will reach a new balance but once the speed and frequency drops too far the gain will be lost and the system will stall. I'm still looking for high inductance motors.

[nueview]

i think there is a point made here that is worth looking at and it is something i have run into myself in induction motors.
setting the run winding to a form of resonance and adding a load to the rotor causes an increased draw in amperage yet it does not change the resonant flow from the run field winding.
when a permanent magnet rotor is used this draw in current is not felt by the system though the load can upset the resonance due to the change in field speed.
any secondary coil recieving power from the magnet will be seen as a load but if it is making high voltage and fed back to the resonant run winding it activates a greater field in the resonant run winding.
the magnetic fields seem to direct the charge flow so having voltage seems to make a difference.
Martin

[mbrownn]

i think there is a point made here that is worth looking at and it is something i have run into myself in induction motors.
setting the run winding to a form of resonance and adding a load to the rotor causes an increased draw in amperage yet it does not change the resonant flow from the run field winding.
when a permanent magnet rotor is used this draw in current is not felt by the system though the load can upset the resonance due to the change in field speed.
any secondary coil recieving power from the magnet will be seen as a load but if it is making high voltage and fed back to the resonant run winding it activates a greater field in the resonant run winding.
the magnetic fields seem to direct the charge flow so having voltage seems to make a difference.
Martin

Are you talking about AC or pulsed DC?

With ac the current increases with load because of the phase shift.

[nueview]

i am talking AC action for the motor actions above.
Martin

[dutchguy]

pulsing drive winding

I have an induction motor running on 1 drive winding pulsing DC, hall sensor, arduino board, 3 pulses per on time (toranorod style)
runs great with less current.
Will a parallel capacitor give more reactance and less input current?

[mbrownn]

i am talking AC action for the motor actions above.
Martin

Ahhh I was talking pulsed DC, so you are looking to find energy in the gain of resonance you will have to go to high frequency and then you might have some interesting things happen. Don't know how you will get a Tesla induction motor to spin that fast though

[nueview]

the wave form does a few different things some can be seen by the oscilliscope some can't the main 60 hz at the cap has a second cycle overlayd on it of7.5 hz and the normal 120 voltage on this at 7.5 hz goes 20volt to 220 volt and the shop lights go dim every 1.2 seconds or there about and a loud thump can be heard.
this is the partial replication we have gotten to so far but it is out of phase to the original one that self ran but the power is good though the cap seems not to be able to handle the power for long.
the system is all ac power and the frequency seems not to go or do what would seem to be a normal process and it has left us very confused.

Martin

[dutchguy]

capacitor on drive winding

I did put a capacitor in parallel with the drive winding.
Then put a signalgenerator and scoop on it and changed the frequency until I got the resonant freq. (15x times higher sinus with mkt capacitor)
Then programmed my board to pulse the drive winding with the resonant freq. With capacitor more torque, but a little more current. I expected more out of it.

Foto of my setup, sorry guys , no selfmade rotor and stator. Input 45 volt /1 A (thanks to Arduino), output ?, charging batts. Usual problems with Lenz.