"Regenerative Acceleration" Effects ?

[Farmhand]

Hi all, I think there are some big question marks over this "regenerative
acceleration" effect.

This thread I made for people to ask the hard questions and discuss the
obvious discrepancies some of us can see. This will give a balanced view to
the subject without encroaching in other threads.

Firstly I don't understand the labeling of it as "regenerative acceleration", this
seems to be misleading in my opinion.

Here's why. In regenerative braking the power from the source (battery) is
stopped and reversed. so that while regenerative braking is occurring energy
is returned to the source (battery) the source ceases to supply energy to the
load, the load (motor) then becomes the source and the source the load, the
motor takes no energy but it returns energy to the source, the motor uses
momentum to do this.

This is very different to what is happening in the so called "regenerative
acceleration". If it was true "regenerative acceleration" the source (battery)
would cease to supply energy to the load (motor) and the load would return
energy to the source. But it has no possible way to do this. The load (motor)
continues to take energy from the source and does not return any it just goes
faster. There is no regeneration at all. None. Zero.

So what gives ?

I do not understand where the regeneration is. Where is the energy that is
being returned to the source ? Why is the motor still taking energy and not
returning it ? What is it that justifies calling this "regenerative acceleration" ?

I'm sorry but it all looks completely bogus. I have always thought Thanes stuff
as a bit off. But this is getting too much.

I find it very disheartening that there is not more questioning of this. I see
others are grilled when they make a wayward claim.

The Term "regenerative acceleration" is just straight up wrong in my opinion.

I see some acceleration but I don't see any regeneration. Catchy term but
very sales like. And just wrong.

At first glance people would be forgiven for thinking that the term
"regenerative acceleration" would mean that the car sped up and recharged
the battery at the same time.

I think the labeling should be changed for a start. Very misleading.

There is no "regeneration". It is nothing like regenerative braking.
Regenerative braking recharges the source batteries.

Where is the energy being recovered from during acceleration that is
otherwise lost during acceleration.

That is what regenerative braking does, it recovers energy that would
normally be lost during braking.

Honestly if this keeps up without some hard questions being asked and
answered, I might just start saying anything I please and if anyone complains
I will just point them to all the unproven claims being made. Starting with the "regenerative acceleration".

I've asked three valid questions so far. Repeated below. I have a few more.

Where is the energy that is being returned to the source ?
Why is the motor still taking energy and not returning it ?
What is it that justifies calling this "regenerative acceleration" ?

Cheers

[Shadesz]

I've asked three valid questions so far. Repeated below. I have a few more.

Where is the energy that is being returned to the source ?
Why is the motor still taking energy and not returning it ?
What is it that justifies calling this "regenerative acceleration" ?

Cheers

Very good questions. My personal repose would be...

1- The energy isn't returned to the source. If there even is energy gain it is supposed to manifest itself in the acceleration without extra draw.

2- Because the claim is made before any practical concept has been achieved.

3- Nothing. I think your post explains this very clearly. Thank you. If I were to decide one a term it would be something like, free acceleration, although this hasn't been proved yet. Rod has been the closest that I have seen in achieving free acceleration, but his % of increase was so small it isn't conclusive data.

[Farmhand]

Now having said that I would like to state a couple of points.

I don't consider myself a "Naysayer" .

While I am a bit skeptical by nature I think my natural skepticism is in a healthy
balance with my desire to believe everything i'm told.

I think Thane and his supporters have had ample time to put another few
generator coils on the "regenerative acceleration generator" to get a self
runner. Or to put a few more secondaries on the Bi-Toroid to show us the
1000% OU he claimed at one stage.

Or even any OU. At all.

I think it's either time to show us the Overunity or to say you cannot produce Overunity. There is no shame or danger in either.

I don't think it is very becoming of a person in this field to keep saying OU and
I can produce Overunity without even one shred of evidence toward that goal.

Everything i have seen tells me that Thane Heins is actually further from OU
than I am, and saying so does not add to my credibility. I have nothing to
gain by saying that, but I think it might be true. I don't have any helpers
either and very few resources.

My Ego is not so big that I avoid the difficult questions to save face. So no
need to worry about "bursting my bubble" which is a fairly commonly used
term.

I have no reason to feel any animosity toward anyone, except that I think
people are being distracted. And also I think people could be put off FE
altogether by too many outrageous claims and no proof.

[Farmhand]

Very good questions. My personal repose would be...

1- The energy isn't returned to the source. If there even is energy gain it is supposed to manifest itself in the acceleration without extra draw.

2- Because the claim is made before any practical concept has been achieved.

3- Nothing. I think your post explains this very clearly. Thank you. If I were to decide one a term it would be something like, free acceleration, although this hasn't been proved yet. Rod has been the closest that I have seen in achieving free acceleration, but his % of increase was so small it isn't conclusive data.

Yes I agree Rods results are very impressive, and Rod is very down to Earth
about it too. With no intention of patents and nor is he asking for investments.
Others get good results too. But you guys are more trying to get results than
make claims.

That can only be respected. And I do respect that very much. There is much
to be gained with an open mind. I think the OU claims cloud the mind.

And cause a constant subconscious distraction.

[elias]

Thanks for bringing this up!
Personally I would not label any of Thanes tests regenerative acceleration if there are eddy currents present in the core, so I would consider regenerative acceleration, if The speed of the rotor increases when nearing the shorted coil to the rotor.

Thane has sacrificed a lot for his work, and we should understand him.

I am more in the line of coil shorting, and extracting drag-less energy from a rotating rotor, which I believe that is possible.

We need to look closely to this effect, because it behaves strangely opposite to conventional generators. We cannot get acceleration if we could not lag the current more than 90 degrees, which seems to be the case. Maybe there is a way, but I do not know yet.

[Farmhand]

Thanks for bringing this up!
Personally I would not label any of Thanes tests regenerative acceleration if there are eddy currents present in the core, so I would consider regenerative acceleration, if The speed of the rotor increases when nearing the shorted coil to the rotor.

Thane has sacrificed a lot for his work, and we should understand him.

I am more in the line of coil shorting, and extracting drag-less energy from a rotating rotor, which I believe that is possible.

We need to look closely to this effect, because it behaves strangely opposite to conventional generators. We cannot get acceleration if we could not lag the current more than 90 degrees, which seems to be the case. Maybe there is a way, but I do not know yet.

Well sacrifice or not, it is what it is, the energy required to power the drive motor needs to be considered as well. That means a lot to make up, and the extra power required for the extra speed up is not even recovered.

And even though the input does drop and the rotor speeds up there is never an decrease beyond an unloaded motor . The acceleration is not done under mechanical load.

He is taking a few watts decrease in input but ignoring the extra tens of watts it takes to speed the rotor up to the extra speed required to get the few watts savings.

That is going backwards away from OU.

Overunityguide says what Thane says is true. Regenerative acceleration is true because he can save a few watts from a transformer while using more than he saved to do it. None of it make sense.

It doesn't make sense because I can do it too. But I recognize it as a bad thing, and that that is probably why a conventional generator does not do that.

I would ask how do people explain that I and others can get devices to reduce input when loaded ? We don't have "regenerative acceleration". Why don't we think it is special? And why don't we claim OU ?

I volunteer that the reason why is because to claim a "not so good" thing as special is not beneficial. I admit it does look special, but do the numbers.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

One mistake I think being made by some, is to set a baseline with the rotor turning but no coil, or the motor running but no rotor. Of course the only fair way is to make the baseline at nil input. Motor turned off if any comparison at all is to be made to a conventional generator or transformer even. The Bi-Toroid transformer should be compared to a normal transformer both the idle power consumption and the loaded power consumption also the total output for a given input.

I made a transformer capable of using as little as 30 Ma or less at idle. How much was the idle power of the Bi-toroid transformer ? If it used hundreds of mA to idle for a saving of a few mA from that idle power usage then that is nothing special.

Simple question. What was the idle power consumption of the Bi-Toroid transformer and how much power was saved from that ?

All normal questions that should be asked.

When the efficiency of a conventional generator is calculated I think it is calculated including the power required to turn the generator without load. this is called an "overhead" cost or running cost or whatever, but it is not free.

So easy to see all power consumed in the process of the operation of the device should be considered, especially if it far exceeds the load.

Now for anything special to happen in my opinion the output would need to exceed the input. All of both considered.

Isn't that what we all aim for ?

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Hi all I just put together a setup with a prime mover (universal motor) and a
directly attached rotor, I have a C shaped core with a coil of 7 mH and 0.8 of
a Ohm DC resistance the coil has about 270 turns on it. With this setup I
can produce the speed up under load effect as well as the input reduction
under load effect at the same time which is nothing to brag about nor is it good.

The fact that I can produce the effect with a coil of (low impedance) I think says it all.

I'll post a video in the next day or so showing power measurements and scope shots.

To achieve the effect is quite easy, the recipe for speed up under load is-
inductance - capacitance and frequency = resonance + a load of too little
resistance (almost a short) = no generated wave form to speak of = very little
Lenz effect generated and very little power delivered + a small nullification of
the inherent drag of the cores dues to resonance = slight input power
reduction and rotor speeding up effect.

First impression is - the coil cannot deliver power enough to the load I
attached so the wave form basically flatlines, no generated wave form seems
to mean very little generated Lenz effect as well and also very little power
produced.

Second impression - Regenerative Acceleration as shown by Thane Heins is a parlor trick.

Back with video.

Side note, if we want to drive the fakers and hoaxers away we will need to
investigate the claims and be able to ask of the claimants some tough
questions and demand answers, otherwise they can do and say anything they
like. The onus of proving claims is on the person making the claim, why make
a claim with no intention of offering proof or sufficient evidences.

We can't just stop questioning, we must be vigilant. Too many people are
being misled to fruitless endeavors by promises and inflated claims.

Cheers

EDIT: Lots of people went ahead and tried to get the effect in the way Thane,
Romero and "OverunityGuide" (guys name ) indicated to get it, but
did anyone think about how the effect is manifested and what could cause it.
Or try to see if it could be produced in different ways to get the same type of
thing happening based on their own theories.

I'm largely self educated in this field but I could see there was something
suspicious about it immediately. I put forward my simple theories, now I intend
to show what I think is validation of some of my theoretical ponderings.
If it were to turn out in the end that I am right, then what does that say for
all the supposedly educated individuals, the guru's. Why wouldn't any of them
come to one of the forums and tell us what is fake and what isn't so we can
see they can be trusted.

Why are the scammers and fraudsters not outed by supposed genius element
amongst us ?

Valid question I think.

..

[SkyWatcher]

Hi farmhand, the only genius element are those that share freely.
Focus on what you want to see in the world and it will grow like a seed in sunshine.
peace love light
tyson

[Farmhand]

The effect can also be produced while powering loads but to a lesser degree,
and with the output rectified as well.

Hi SkyWatcher, I didn't actually set out to show this but since I noticed it and
people are interested in the effect I will experiment with it. I did however fully
expect to be able to produce both the speeding up under load effect and the
reduced input while speeding up under load effect. It would appear to be very
easily repeatable.

There maybe another reason it works for me with this setup but I will keep that
part to myself for now (not a trick). Maybe someone will see it so I don't need to speculate.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Short clip

Here's a short clip, I'll upload a longer one to my channel later tonight when I
have more data allocation for the net.

Acceleration under load effect ( 'Par-Petua' : ) Short clip.wmv - YouTube

..

EDIT: Unfortunately my upload was interrupted. Someone left the air compressor
on last night and when it kicked in to recharge the tank the power draw
interrupted my router or net switch. I'll have to do it tonight after I check the
compressor is off. Just can't help bad luck I guess. I should have known
better it has happened before.

..

[Farmhand]

Here is a drawing of the setup used.



And here is the video link to an explanation of the setup.
Generator rotor acceleration when loaded 1 (Par-Petua Setup. - YouTube

And this video has the effects shown, it was all one video but I spit it to upload easier.

Generator rotor acceleration when loaded 2 (Par Petua - YouTube

Cheers

[darkwizard]

congrats



at least i see someone who understand the ideas...

[darkwizard]

now i have only a question, what is the work needed to move the generator? can you replace the motor with a bedini multicoiler sg with a special circuit (with the caps in series and return radiant diode) ... lol

[darkwizard]

"vacuum motor" lol hahaha throw the numbers over the table