"Regenerative Acceleration" Effects ?

[Farmhand]

Hi Darkwizard, There is quite a bit more input power than output power,
in the video the current meter in front of the battery shows the current out
I forgot to measure the battery voltage but it would be between 12 to 12.5 volts.
So to see the effect I had to apply 25 watts or so, but only got one watt or
less out. However that was not my point. The coil is small and does not
produce the voltage required for the globes I don't think.

I just setup a second coil and connected them in series so now the coils in total
have about 13 mH and 1.4 Ohms, the coils are placed evenly, directly opposite.

My point is the effect does not require high impedance coils or high voltage
coil to produce, the high impedance/HV coils simply create an L/C combination
capable of storing most of the generated energy and oscillating it. The less
resistance in the LC the less actual losses there. Although after shorting for
some time the coil/core does get quite warm so energy is dissipated there.

I think there could be several different factors involved.

I'm going to try to fire the coils with a circuit of some kind for a brief repulsing
pulse with recovery, triggered by some small coils wound onto the core's,
I'll see what happens.

Cheers

[citfta]

Good info

Hi Farmhand,

That is some good data you are sharing. By the way I had to go over to the other forum we both belong to to see the second half. You have posted two links on this forum but they are both for the first half.

You have solved the secret to free energy! We only have to waste 25 watts to get a couple of free watts! Seriously we would probably make a lot more progress if more of us spent as much time as you investigating the so-called free energy claims. We could then concentrate on the ones that really show some promise instead of all the ones that are just show. Thanks for all your efforts and for sharing.

Later,
Carroll

PS: Do you ever sleep? I see you on here day and night. Keep up the good fight.

[Farmhand]

Thanks for pointing out the link problem Carroll. My apologies for that blunder. I must have been tired.

Here is the second link here.

Generator rotor acceleration when loaded 2 (Par Petua - YouTube

With two coils the effect is more pronounced with more power out but more
inherent drag also. I can hold 10 volts across a 12v 5 watt globe and have little effect on the input but it costs 25 watts to do it. Maybe I can add coil/cores
till I get the most out for that 25 watts or so input, but I doubt it will be 25 watts.

It is interesting to experiment with though.

Cheers

[shylo]

@ citfta

"you have solved the secret to free energy"
I don't understand how you see this.
I am just a builder and experimenter, I have no electronic skills what so ever
Farmhand, in your video part 1 you can plainly see the drag effect caused by the magnets being attracted to the steel laminates that your coil is wound on. If you took that 270 turns of wire ,and wound 2 coils ,135 turns each and placed them on both sides of your mag rotor with a non magnetic material as coil holders, this would eliminate the drag effect
The output will be less but there will be no drag.
Now if you did this and then incorporate a switch to short the coil your readings will go off the scale. This is where I'm at right now.
I'm stil trying different circuts of diodes and caps to catch this spike.
Maybe if you could use one of UFO's motor modifications as a prime mover, this might also add to output
Also using Turions' 3BGS as the power supply should add to output
There is so much info on this site it is hard to understand it all ,and I am far from it. But I believe that a culmination of these many different techniques will bring about free energy for all
Lets all get along to make this thing work
shylo

[citfta]

Sorry

Hi shylo,

I am sorry you did not understand what I meant. It was meant as a joke between friends. Farmhand and I both have a problem with those people that make a lot of claims with no evidence to back them up. Farmhand has spent a lot of time trying to understand what is going on with some of those claims. He has all my respect for his efforts.

Sincerely,
Carroll

[darkwizard]

Hi Farmhand. I like what i see here in this thread. Look what you have... you have a generator coil that generates little power, but the power generated is free: it takes 0 mechanic work from the flywheel/rotor.

[darkwizard]

If you have a motor that takes little current to make good torque, better coils, better geometric disposal of the magnets and coils, (odd even)... Think about it, what is doing that coil is shifting 90 degrees the power generated, is doing it just at tdc

[Matthew Jones]

Excuse me for posting If I missed something, I did not read the whole thread.

The following is some test data from Regenerative Acceleration study I did some time ago. It clearly proved adding a high impedance generator to the setup not only gained energy from the gen itself but it added speed to the overall motor.

Any one can do this test.



Let me explain what it is your looking at.
The top left is the diagram of the motor. It was 4 magnets on a wheel and small coil running through a reed transistor setup. The coil was 400 turns of 20 awg small core 1/4 inch worth of metal or something along that line. Of course the timing was set to go as fast as could. From what I have in my notebook the amp draw stayed the same no matter what.

The top right was the gen coil and it was shorted directly to itself. The coil was 1000 turns of 32 awg same core as the motor. The load was an amp meter.
The bottom 2 coils were diode tests to see if direction of flow made some improvement, it did not.

The motor coil and gen coil were separate coils and I was pulling the largest load possible from the gen coil yet the motor sped up under the same amp draw.

It is the amount impedance in the gen that makes the difference.

I also have since built several little motors with the High impedance coil directly in from if the Motor coil(same spool separate windings).
This also increases speed and allows for collection of the power at TDC by unshorting the coil as the magnet passes.

I understand the doubt but the truth is it is a means of delaying Lenz law and really does work at no cost. Anyone can build a small pulse motor and see the effect.

Cheers
Matt

[Farmhand]

Hi Matt, I don't see a pcture.

I have posted my thoughts and experiments, If anyone can show any over 100%
efficiency tests please do.

The point is, doing this does not "create" energy. Delaying Lenz seems to be delaying the output as well. If power generation is delayed it would make
sense that Lenz effect be delayed also.

When all the input and output is considered I have yet to see greater than 100%.

Forgetting the coils for a moment, the magnets attract to the core on
approach, there is no cogging drag on approach, the drag from the cores to magnets is on departure.

Power can be generated by the coils on magnet approach with a coasting (un-powered)
rotor that is accelerating, but when the magnet departs it has core drag and generated Lenz drag.

Now (with a powered device) if any of the Lenz drag or cogging drag is removed in any way the rotor
will speed up because there is less load on the prime mover.

Shorting a coil is not output. Rotors that spin faster and do less or the same
work also show no increased output.

If you can improve your own generating efficiency by doing whatever then go for it.

I see nothing but an decreased efficiency made into a slightly better efficiency.

The only output is when a useful load is powered, eg. a bulb, or some
mechanical work from the rotor.

Using some different coils may improve efficiency, I do not doubt that,

I made this thread because Thane Heins claimed to be able to "create Energy".
And that his accelerating rotor was proof of that claim. I don't agree with the
Lenz thing either but that is beside the point.

Acceleration of a generator rotor when loaded does not in itself mean
anything in particular. What means something is our input compared to
intended or useful output. Which is the reason why we would do it.

If one was to generate under attraction then effect a polarity reversal on the
coil/core the core would repulse the magnet.

So energy could be stored in the capacity of the coil and oscillate in the L/C
if the magnet pass timing was correct with the oscillations funny things might happen.

Cheers

[Matthew Jones]

Shorting a coil is not output. Rotors that spin faster and do less or the same work also show no increased output.

So let me get this right, cause the test I did was limited to no output, but what your saying covers every situation possible.

**If I have a motor with a mechanical load off of the shaft (Rotor shaft) spinning at a given rpm.
And I add a generator coil to the stator assembly that speeds the rotor up to higher rpm, while its doing work, and start to produce a little extra electricity to return to the primary or use directly with a low resistance load.

There is NO GENUINE energy GAIN?

Thats what your saying?

Power can be generated by the coils on magnet approach with a coasting (un-powered) rotor that is accelerating, but when the magnet departs it has core drag and generated Lenz drag.

Maybe I have misread this again.

So your saying We get acceleration from the magnet approaching but we lose it from it leaving. Why then do we get acceleration? Acceleration would clearly indicate we are not being effected by LENZ as much as we were while it was just motor.

The only output is when a useful load is powered, eg. a bulb, or some
mechanical work from the rotor.

Powering and amp meter which turns a needle gauge is then NOT defined as work?

**EDIT I took out one of the statements after reviewing the thread further and realizing there was a movie.

One thing you are failing yourself with is the idea you should be able to somehow pull power from the coil that is causing the acceleration. Put the high impedance short coil in Front of the lower impedance generator coil on the same flux.

Also I do not understand your conclusions. Impedance which causes the effect is altered in the coil when you short to a 5 watt bulb. Without the bulb you are just subject to the impedance of the coil and therefore the effect can take hold at its best point. Clearly your film shows that. Why is it that the delayed Lenz effect which is obviously showing you GAIN is not a gain in energy when with a low impedance gen coil it normally be a detriment? I am missing something in your argument.

Cheers
Matt

[Farmhand]

Well Matt, I can't really say if others see a gain or not, i can only say what I
see. I would have to agree that the rotor increasing speed does show increased
efficiency, if the rotor is producing a load like a fan, meaning intended output
not just air drag then the output is increasing.

I was inputting about 25 watts and getting less than three watts. How it seems to
work is like this, The universal motor (prime mover) is fighting against all the
drag and the input is double what it would be without the coils/cores.
The coils/cores are causing serious drag when the coils are not shorted. The
setup when spinning slowly and loaded by a bulb or short slows down as we
would expect. But if the rotor is sped up there are stages when coil's/cores
cause more drag than others I think because of harmonics or oscillations in
the coils, now if the coil is heavily loaded or shorted the rotor accelerates
because the generated drag in the coils is less than before. As the rotor
accelerates the coils can show more power for some time but mostly the power
is waning as the rotor increases speed. Less energy is coming out from the
electrical output if loaded by a bulb.

Basically I showed it in a setup similar to Thanes in that I used a universal
motor and a permanent magnet alternating current generator, the difference
is I used low resistance coils and a capacitor to get it near to resonance,
to get near resonance like I did without adding the 9 uF to a 7 mH coil, to
do it without adding any capacitance you would need a coil of about 1 Henry
with about 50 nF of internal capacitance, such a coil would have quite a bit of
resistance be large and produce fairly high voltages, but it would have about
the same resonant frequency. Interesting huh.

I'm showing the effect is likely caused by resonance or harmonics.

Lenz's law is instantaneous the Back emf voltage is instantaneous if the
generated current is delayed then there is less time for current to flow as the
magnet passes the core, meaning less output and less drag. Lenz drag is
generated as a result of the voltage generated causing a current to flow in a
direction to oppose the force that created it. No voltage no current no Lenz
effect. Less voltage less current less Lens effect. More voltage more current
more lenz effect. Delay the current delay the effect yes but also reduce the
time for current flow and reduce the output.
A coil with more capacitance is generating more Lenz drag to charge the coil
and it's capacitance, if the coil and it's capacitance are shorted it cannot be
charged and so there is less Lenz drag.

Shifting the phase to cause the rotor to be powered in part by the generated
power from the coil is interesting but ultimately pointless I think.

Bottom line is no electrical output is generated without the effect of Lenz's
law. It simply can't be because of the way the law is defined.

If Lez's law was being violated there would be "NO" change in the rotor
speed and the coil would generate unlimited current and destroy itself when
shorted or produce the maximum current for the voltage applied to the load
depending on the load resistance.

Similar effect is shown by me in a transformer (reduced input when loaded) on this thread I think and also
with two resonant Tesla coils one transmitter one receiver when the receiver
is loaded. This is resonance effects in my opinion, But there are a number of
factors involved or could be.

I could link all the relevant videos to the front of this thread, no trouble.


Cheers

P.S. powering the amp meter may well be "work" but it is not useful or
intended "output".

..

[Farmhand]

Video's

Transformer effects video, at about 4 mins I start showing effects. At 7:30
I show I can apply a load that does increase the draw which is one wire
lighting of a 10 watt fluro tube with interesting effect. Whats happening in
the transformer video is much the same thing as what is happening in the
motor/generator video.

(Regenerative acceleration transformer effects ?) Bogus or not - YouTube

Tesla coils video's.

Reduced input under load effects.wmv - YouTube

This one shows stress relieved from the battery when the output is loaded.

Reduced input current under added load effects 33 - YouTube

Another
Reduced input current with added load.wmv - YouTube

..

[Farmhand]

Quote:
Power can be generated by the coils on magnet approach with a coasting (un-powered) rotor that is accelerating, but when the magnet departs it has core drag and generated Lenz drag.
Maybe I have misread this again.

So your saying We get acceleration from the magnet approaching but we lose it from it leaving. Why then do we get acceleration? Acceleration would clearly indicate we are not being effected by LENZ as much as we were while it was just motor.

Yeah, the way I see it if the Lenz drag and cogging drag from the magnet
leaving the coil is reduced significantly or eliminated by shorting, loading or
pulsing back the energy generated on magnet approach (repulse), then it would self
turn on the power of the permanent magnets. Doing that should not be too
difficult. But ultimately pointless except to utilize the energy of the permanent
magnets, if there was some energy gained that way then all well and good, I
would see that as a gain. But it might not be very practical or even possible
I think that is how most "self runners" work, they have permanent magnets.

Cheers

P.S. I see a permanent magnet as being "like" a ball for example a basket ball,
We can use it for bouncing things off, but first we must charge it with energy
compress air into it. As long as we only bounce things off it then almost all it's
potential energy will stay in it, (it might leak a bit). But if we draw directly on
the potential energy of the compressed air inside we must let the energy out
by releasing the air pressure and tapping the energy released. I think
permanent magnets last so long because the energy stays in them, if that
energy is tapped they will deplete quickly. I think I read or heard of it being
actually done and observed, can't remember where.

When we use a permanent magnet motor all we do is bounce our
electromagnet's field into the permanent magnets field, I think there would
always be almost equal force exerted both ways. Kinda. Or with a generator
it would put the permanent magnet flux through the magnetic or non magnetic
(air) core of the generator coil.

..

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, I have made my fair share of these generators that speed up under load, though I always found this video intriguing of the guy showing the results of more mass of permanent magnets and then neos repelled from a coil using capacitor
Maybe it is like a bounce, though their has to be some application for this videos observations.
Electromagnet Testing - YouTube
peace love light
tyson

[jimboot]

Well this is what I have built.
Rodin pulse motor gen thanes heins - YouTube
Its a bit of a frankenmototor but pretty simple. My next challenge is to run it off caps.