capacitors and condensors pumping e field

[madhatter]

Just wanted to update here:

I've been researching thru papers and sadly there is little to no advancement in electrostatic equations in non-uniform fields or moving fields. The latest book I have on electromagnetic field theory has a quick toss to electrostatic fields and mostly adds integration and vector plane equations, nothing new other than making it in my opinion a bit more complicated. granted it's a text on electromagnetic fields.

I'm digging for more of JJ Thomsons lectures and not the ones that have been re-printed in latex or text where the diagrams and original formulas have been edited.

From the majority of equations and formulas it is easier to elicit the dielectric circuit and transient waves when starting within or mixing the dielectric and electromagnetic circuits, however it's a compromise and there is a loss of the pure nature of the dielectric field.

for example using some basics, if a charged circuit with zero current and high potential is closed the transition to final current would be instant if there was no inductance and only resistance, however due to the nature of the circuit there is inductance and thus there is a slope for both charge and discharge or rise and fall of the current.

a condenser connected to a constant voltage will have no current, at closing the circuit if there is no resistance or inductance it would have an infinite current and charge the condenser to full potential instantly.

anyone see where this is going?

as the increase in charge on the condenser becomes greater there is less electromotive force for resistance and at full capacitance there is no current.

OK, the trick to this circuit is in near non-resistive materials or super conductors. geometry also plays a big role as well.

If one can generate the field collapse and give rise to an near instant infinite current the current would nearly match the voltage and cycle between charge/discharge with little to no further input.

dielectric study is fascinating as there has been little to no published work in this field for a century yet has such potential and also scary implications at the power achievable.

electromagnetic circuits has great useable current as it's 'regulated' via resistance of inductance, with no inductance the current would be massive and instant. electrostatic circuits are not compatible with electromagnet ones unless a transformation or control in utilized. This is a more noticeable problem within HV transmission and transient waves.

This is also why Steinmetz, Thomson and others have studied transient waves, they arise out of the dielectric circuit that is partially integrated in systems. If the electromagnetic circuit can exclude the dielectric then the dielectric can exclude the electromagnetic.

This is where I'm going. The simple trig and algebraic equations and calculus are falling short. the field is not uniform and I from what I can see in the equations thus far uniform fields will not help in tapping the field. in order to maintain a uniform field the boundary conditions on a condenser need to employ an inductive field and that wastes the energy gain.

assuming a perfectly flat and uniform surface for the field would give rise to an immense attraction and if the surface was lets say gridded to match the full charge density it would collapse uniformly, if it was not and the contact points was less than the charge density it would clamp together will little current flow and be akin two magnets and if the density of any one contact point was greater than the surrounding proportional charge density then the field would break down non-uniformly and there would be a loss in the non inductive current. I don't have the equations to handle that topology or density at the moment.

The equations need to account for many many things and I feel that integration via a uniform field is not correct and will mask or hide the true available nature of the phenomenon.

[Joit]

S I wont go into anymore detail right now Iv been ranting all over the forum, people are probably tired of hearing me.

Its actually ok, you been not ranting, just trow your 2 Cents in, and anyone can take it or leave it. There are way more worse Peoples around sometimes, where her 2 Cents are unfortunatly much more then only Suggestions.

I only wonder, what Ideas sometimes Peoples got like with this Ice around the Coil, but this is really something what i can appreceate, because its a Real World Experiment, not just a guessing in the Dark.
Thank you for that.

[SilverToGold]

Hey Martin,

I hope that you don't keep it to yourself. Just because there are some knuckle heads out there, doesn't mean that there aren't some genuine and sincere people that would truly appreciate what you have to share.

Ignore the ignoramuses and do what you know to be the right thing.

I enjoy your post and respect your experience. If I ever find a working device, everyone will know about it.

hi all
i think if i ever find free energy i will just keep it to myself.
mostly because i don't think anyone would understand how i got there.
litteracy is important but it is not very good.
allot of the circuits and descriptions are really bad and when something really good comes out its true what the dumb kid said you try to shove it back in the box where it won't work and then say it's a hoax so why bother with a different explanation.
Martin

[madhatter]

I'm going to post some musings on this.

The dielectric circuit is a mirror of the electromagnet circuit and as such they don't directly translate into each other since they are not inverse. The time function is not inverse.

the dielectric circuit is found in nature, and esp so in atmospheric conditions. lighting is a voltage potential that gives rise to the near infinite current and also releases radiation. Another consideration is that the e-field charge when undergoing a sudden variation in velocity between the charge points gives rise to radiation, cathode ray etc. the arrangement is what causes this, one polarity at a constant velocity and the other stops/moves in relation to the other polarity charge on the field line.

If both charges simultaneously stop at the same point/space then the field lines converge, if this occurs at a frequency high enough it will cause a greater than the rest velocity or faster than light current flow. strictly because there is no inductance to impede the wave.

The relations of electromagnetic and dielectric:

magnetic circuit Reluctance is:
R=F/mag flux

Electric circuit Resistance:
r=e/i ohms

Dielectric Circuit Elastance:
E=1/C or volts divided the product of the dielectric flux area, energy and velocity of light

[madhatter]

Am I getting to technical or flying a bit high?

[boguslaw]

Am I getting to technical or flying a bit high?

yes,I think so I have a question for you , because I can't operate the math now (I've got some weird illness which removed all complex or even less complex math from my head) - can you check LC circuit ? I mean I feel that changing magnetic field in coil (both rise and fall slope) should produce displacement current but out common two plates capacitor is wrong to catch it. With proper capacitor geometry it should be possible to accumulate energy in LC circuit expotentially as opposite to current linear way.
I may be wrong, but it's worth to check if you are willing to do so.

[MonsieurM]

Electric field generated from a capacitor

capacitor electric field - YouTube

[Dave45]

MM thanks so much for that I was wondering if the cap put out a field, so it can move energy across the dielectric, I will have to think on this one If you find any more info on this let us know
Thanks again
Dave

[nueview]

i'm sorry for the other day i got rather upset and should not have taken it out here.

Lenz's Law & Eddy Currents - YouTube

the you tube is about something i did some thirty years ago and i got nothing but resistance from many people over it.
i still try to post this information and other things i learn but it seems to fall on deaf ears.
i tried to talk to this guy but it is like he wants to know it all and it is just a small part of it.
as for resistance in the above formulas it is energy out of sink if it all goes resonant it will show very little resistance for the power generated.
like putting three coils in line the outside coils are resonant at different frequencies now find the resonance for the middle coil simple test.
have any of you ever built a copper magnet the current flow directions displaces field action and you get attraction flip the field action and you get repulsion how do you flip the field be resonant 180* out.

why we study electrons is for children it makes it easy for them to understand then we grow up and are to move on to filed actions and then we are supposed to grow into different functions of the different energies.
Martin

MOT Primary Resonance Test for user Gyula - YouTube

[madhatter]

MM thanks so much for that I was wondering if the cap put out a field, so it can move energy across the dielectric, I will have to think on this one If you find any more info on this let us know
Thanks again
Dave

That field is a visual of the 'lines of force' from positive to negative termination. The b field will arise transverse to the e field when it 'moves' that can be as simple as one of the relative charges moving or both.

The current geometry of capacitors which should technically be called condensers, and the utilization of resistance and physical wire connections cause the b field. the b field is limited in velocity due to it's nature of arising from resistance, it will always have a slope - always -.

voltage to current can exist without a b field, this is form is ignored by current physics until you get to QEM (quantum electro dynamics) and although its not directly talked of as such the odd behavior of 'dark energy' the casamir effect of virtual photons etc.. all falls into the dielectric study in the 'aether' of a century ago. the trick of course is to illicit this behavior. this will be found in the study of electrostatics and the dielectric circuit.

I'm working an uphill battle as formal education thru to quantum physics has me having to back and re-look and the paradigm shift is unsettling as the thread is so woven into physics that it's not a single adjustment but an entire restructure. I have numerous mathematica demo's that I need to re-work the equations on to see what changes and how. The field transforms are PITA.

[nueview]

if you check out how a mosfet works you will find it is an e-field device which impedes charge flow this would tend to make me think that a wire having any potential on it would have resistance due to the dielectric nature it has with the air and as diameter changes so also does resistance.
all signal transmission lines have this problem and it is overcome with dielectric spacing and outer shielding as well.
this is not to say that material duping does not have a part but the effect is there on all materials as well.
duped carbon can perform the same task as silicon.
Martin

[madhatter]

if you check out how a mosfet works you will find it is an e-field device which impedes charge flow this would tend to make me think that a wire having any potential on it would have resistance due to the dielectric nature it has with the air and as diameter changes so also does resistance.
all signal transmission lines have this problem and it is overcome with dielectric spacing and outer shielding as well.
this is not to say that material duping does not have a part but the effect is there on all materials as well.
duped carbon can perform the same task as silicon.
Martin

Right the MOSFET is a dielectric component. It's primary function is a 'gate' so the flow of electrons is regulated by the characteristics of the medium. doping is critical to the desired slope of the resistance.

a single wire will hold a potential as long as there is another wire next to it. the geometry of how those wires are lay next to each other will determine the e and b fields. From dielectric equations there is a scalar component that needs to be added in, only possible in quaternions, once this is done there arises a stress in the fields that is not in the std. equations. This field is for lack of a better description not in this dimension so exhibits non-local variations.

what I'm trying to develop is a way to create this stress without the use of electromagnetic fields to reduce the losses. This is far easier said than done as it requires not using wires as the wires by the cross section geometry will form local longitudinal magnetic fields and that will be the resistance to slow the electron velocity and reduce the stressed field.

charged gasses are good start however it's chaotic and difficult to model since the eq call for uniform fields and thermodynamics get out of hand fast if one tries to model all the random fluctuations. a good reason why forming lighting is still not completely understood. But lighting is a prime example of the force and power of the dielectric field and it's odd behavior.

The more I research this the more it stands to reason why it's gone missing. the removal of the scalar field and the resultant electromagnetic equations are blind to it. I'm self learning quaternions and it's an unwieldy bugger.

[nueview]

sounds like something i was asked to make at one time by some doctors at the local hospital.
basically they want a way to monitor a patients heart with the MRI running.
so signal pickup can't be done with any metal wires or metals as such distorts any readings.
i was trying to accomplish the task using very fine tubing and natural solutions like distilled water or saline.
but they are susceptible to static fields and can trigger false readings.

i have not heard of quaternions so am afraid i will have to do some studying to learn about this.

pure E-field actions can get one free of most of the magnetic actions but there are not allot of studies for non magnetic conductors and e-fields can be easily misplaced for lack of better terminology.
Martin

[madhatter]

sounds like something i was asked to make at one time by some doctors at the local hospital.
basically they want a way to monitor a patients heart with the MRI running.
so signal pickup can't be done with any metal wires or metals as such distorts any readings.
i was trying to accomplish the task using very fine tubing and natural solutions like distilled water or saline.
but they are susceptible to static fields and can trigger false readings.

i have not heard of quaternions so am afraid i will have to do some studying to learn about this.

pure E-field actions can get one free of most of the magnetic actions but there are not allot of studies for non magnetic conductors and e-fields can be easily misplaced for lack of better terminology.
Martin

That would be very difficult considering they're also pumping the field with a radio frequency in order to 'see' the delta between the local and non-local field. MRI re-aligning polarity of the field would require the monitor to be placed directly on the heart in order to function and with MRI's being traumatic enough for some I couldn't imagine them agreeing to that as well.

fascinating though, MRI's operate with the ability to distort the bodies natural electrochemical wave function.

Yep, electrostatics get shuffled into a corner or dismissed very easily and it's a shame since the e-field is manifestation from a higher dimension or put into other terms a stress from the 4th dimension. Hamilton hacked off the quaternion as it's difficult to work with in conventional particle physics and equations lost the ability to 'see' this stress rise in 3d fields. of course it requires more than just going back to quaternions but understanding the true nature of mass as a wave function and not a particle the 'steel balls' analogy is a miss direction that has cost science notable progress.

It can be done without quaternions as well but does require to me a bit more in depth understanding and loads more matrices to handle it.

[nueview]

It's nice to see someone who get's the complexity of what was being asked with the MRI project.
i like the way you but statics to steel balls as it really is so much more as you said.
i had not thought of e-fields as stressing the fourth dimension but there is a real difference in firld speed between magnetic collapse and e-filed collapse so any difference would get to a fourth dimension state of time.

we have a man here in our group who is very different from most people if you are hurting and he touches it it is like 100 times worse for a second or two and then it seems to go away.
my mom can't ware an electric watch use a vending machine or adjust a radio station. i have often found this very interesting and the MRI they did when she broke here hip was full of sparkles according to the technician he said he had seen it before but not this bad

so yes i am sure that no matter how good we understood the b h and e fields there would always be something more to have to know.
martin