Inductive Collapse - capture and use

[drak]

Hi.
Maybe something like this?

Looks rather complicated. Have you tried it? Is it just charging super caps?

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Look at this post of mine, it is possible that it is more appropriate here in this thread.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...nk-hole-3.html

Mike

[kEhYo77]

@drak
No, I havn't tried it yet. But I am building it now, waiting for some parts.
The schematic is a preliminary one and yes, I am only charging supercaps as of now. The idea is based on Ismael Aviso / Doug Konzen ways of doing the shorting...

[drak]

[ATTACH]11567[/ATTACH]

The green channel is the trigger and the yellow is the BEMF via a parametric oscillator "STEAP". The BEMF comes from two transformers with a DC motor inbetween them, the secoundary of the transformers is sent back one to the battery and the other to part of the circuit input. Remember the motor is DC, in the off cycle of the trigger pulse the BEMF is filling in the off cycle creating a phantom DC current, 90 degree phase shift. This circuit is running at the moment at a cop of 1, more work to be done on this even though I can run a 240v led bulb which normally would draw 125ma and the motor 250ma with a current draw on the battery of only 55ma @ 12v.

The motor is a capstan drive motor for a jvc video, I do not have the spec for this! perhaps someone can fill me in on this!!!

I may upload a vodeo of this.


Mike

COP of 1? So basically its running by itself? Awesome, would love to see a video of it.

@drak
No, I havn't tried it yet. But I am building it now, waiting for some parts.
The schematic is a preliminary one and yes, I am only charging supercaps as of now. The idea is based on Ismael Aviso / Doug Konzen ways of doing the shorting...

Cool, can't wait to see the results.

[mbrownn]

I see what you are saying but there are some losses here that you could collect.

The first is the effect of magnetism, if your transformer was in fact motor coils you will get an additional mechanical output.

The second is the supply current, after it has passed through the transformer it is shorted on the source and can do no other work other than heating the source.

Note how I place a capacitor to collect some energy from the source before it is shorted. It is also collecting the inductive kickback. Both the source current and the inductive kickback give us mechanical power via the motor less losses and we have an equivalent amount of energy stored in the capacitor which is used to power the motor again.

If there were no losses in the motor our mechanical power would be four times the input but we do have losses. Typically our motor will give us a loss of 25 to 65%, depending upon what motor is used and the capacitor will loose 50%

Lets look at a motor of 50% efficiency, all the current passes through the motor and we get a drop in voltage. This then partially charges the cap but then the inductive kickback then supplies a new current of equal power to the input less losses which tops up the cap. At this point we have about 75% of the energy put into the motor stored in the cap which we can use to power the motor for a second time but now with no input required from the source.

So if we put 100w into the motor we would have 50w of mechanical power plus plus 75% of 50w inductive kickback or an additional 25w giving us 75w mechanical power. These are the motors that are usually quoted as 75% efficient but are really 50% efficient. Using the same formula we can see we have 75w available coming out of the motor to charge the cap but because of its 50% cap loss we end up with 35w available for the next pulse.

Using the same method we can work out what is the next pulse.

35w x 50% = 17.5w plus 17.5w x 50% = 8.75w or 26.25w

Now after one complete cycle we have no more stored energy but we have had a mechanical power of 75w + 26.25w or 101.25w

Because of generator losses it is not possible to have more out than in with this motor but now for some good news. Some DC motors do have a genuine 75% efficiency which should give us this result

(100 x 0.75) + (0.75 x 0.75) = 131.25

((131.25 x 0.5) x 0.75) + (41.218 x 0.75) = 36.91

So the mechanical power is 131.25 + 36.91 or 168.16 watts

Of course I am testing this but my results so far are less than expected so I am trying to work out why. I am getting close to 100% efficiency but not more as far as I can tell.

The motors that I have tried that are efficient on DC are not so efficient on pulsed DC More work need to be done.

[drak]

I see what you are saying but there are some losses here that you could collect.

True, but I'm trying to introduce as little current as possible to the system to see how much I can get out. I could use an electric motor and try to tap off of a magnet passing by, but the energy used to pull the magnet close to the coil is current used. You can get that back by harnessing the momentum of the magnet leaving, but to me it will equal out. If you attach work to that motor, then it will just be more energy used to attract the magnet in the first place.

Its that spike that I'm interested in. You can get it without a motor. For example this is a 5v input to a 1:1 ferrite transformer pulsed at 50% duty load at 1khz yields 364v.



That same spike if sent to a .1uF capacitor yields 19v...per spike.



Testing this so far in trying to figure out the best type of capacitor, series or parallel, fwb or single diode, etc.... I've noticed on my power supply that when charging a cap using this method, the output is 0.00 amps, 5.1v. Maybe because the frequency is too high to register on the display. I've also shorted the output and the amps only went up by .03 amps.

Maybe I will try a motor in the future. You do make a lot of sense though, I understood most of it.

[mbrownn]

The circuit is a simplified Edwin Gray motor as posted by Aviso, the guy with a self running car. He is also collecting the spikes that you are interested in.

It seems to me that we have to combine several methods to achieve our goal. I haven't been able to do much with the spikes other than charge batteries and caps although there are some anomalies that definitely give an overunity effect with that method.

[drak]

Disregard post, chart was wrong.

[mbrownn]

Replace the resistor with a very low resistance inductor and put a diode in series. you may almost zero loss yet the inductor has operated as a magnet. Now do this with a motor and you might be interested by the results if the motor is low enough resistance.

[drak]

@mrbrownn,
I forgot to add, there was a diode in series on the output side and the two caps were electrolytic. The X (1-49) was duty load from 1% to 95%. There were still losses, you have to look at the blue vs the green.

[mbrownn]

much of the losses come from the core but first you have to eliminate ohmic resistance

[drak]

Rather then plaster this thread with a thousand pictures I found it much easier to compile the results into a pdf. I still have a lot more tests to run, but I wanted to get a feel for the different cores.

SSICT1.pdf

The next test is to see if the two unused coils make a difference in COP when added to the output.

[drak]

Multiple coil test results for any who are interested:

SSICT2.pdf