My 76,000 rpm pulsed dc motor

[mnsman]

@mnsman

I'm here, been following your progress for awhile. Need to re-read and get a handle on what you are trying to accomplish though. I'm just fascinated by anything that spins that fast and doesn't explode.

Are you following skycollection on youtube? He has a pretty cool magnetic levitation motor using a simple starship coil to hit 30,000.

Hope it doesn't explode. I wish I had the brain power to calculate the force on the magnet. Neodymium is very brittle as you probably know. So a microscopic crack could be devastating. I run the motor inside a blast box lined with 1/2" lexan. The project is open source and is very reproducible with money, time and patience.

I've followed skycollection and yes he has some very nice builds. He doesn't reveal much though. It would be nice to know exactly how he makes his coils. It looks like he simply folds the star around the core. One of my many goals is to make a compressed starship coil with a 1" core opening and place a stacked pancake coil inside the core. I've suggested that to him already. It would make a very interesting experiment. Don't think there's much to the circuitry he's using. He may get higher speed with better timing and a smaller magnet and shaft. Love his magnetic bearing. Not sure how well the magnetic bearing would fit in my scheme given the HV experiment I plan and the orientation of the magnets needed for the levitation. None the less I would like to try a magnetic bearing too. I'm no where near the craftsman that he is. My tools are very low tolerance- I'm lucky to get anything cut straight.

Looking forward to more of your input. Thank you to all that have contributed.
Jim

[quantumuppercut]

No, the BEMF will always be lower than the forward EMF but there are tricks to increase the forward EMF by inducing radiant spikes. Try looking up "coil shorting" The radiant spikes produced by coil shorting and coil collapse travel in the same direction as the forward EMF and so assist a motor. It is normal to short out or smooth these spikes, John Bedini showed us how to collect them, I am proposing a way of using them to help power the motor to some degree.

Having said all that, if you have lit an LED wired against forward EMF then there must have been a current flow. How did you wire it in the circuit?

Yes, BEMF always lower than forward EMF is conventional. I don't think this is always the case. Suppose we have a wheel and you keep give it a kick to make it faster. The limit of speed would not determine by forward EMF but rather the speed of magnetic field propagation itself. Think about partical accelerator. They're pulse motor itself. Each time a particle pass by, they give it a pulse until light speed is reached. I've drawn up a diagram of this.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

The magnet would induced a sin waveform naturally. Suppose the commutator is on half of the time, there always current flow at the beginning and end(middle point) of the wave form. This current always increase speed of the motor. Of course if we design to make the commutator contact at the peak or have much vibration loss, we may not see higher BEMF. The circuit below is how I configured it. LED lid between the resistor.

[OrionLightShip]

I will study more in depth what it is you are doing so I can try and provide a half-way intelligent answer to your question regarding capacitance.

What is the diameter of your rotor magnet so I can tell you what the forces are at different speeds......

if you really want to know..... Not sure I would....glad you have a blast shield...I would still be careful to position myself out of the line of fire and preferably two blocks away.

As far a skycollection goes...I will diagram what I believe is the method of winding the compressed starship.




Orion

[mnsman]

I will study more in depth what it is you are doing so I can try and provide a half-way intelligent answer to your question regarding capacitance.

See my animation, it's short. P-Motor experiment description and animation - YouTube It's about a proposed experiment to study the effects of a high speed rotating magnet placed between two oppositely charged plates (HV). The plates act as a capacitor creating an E-field at right angle to the magnets H-field. This arrangement creates the Poynting Vector S at 90 degrees to both fields. S=ExH. The plates are part of the resonant or pulse dc circuit. The plasma discharge of the circuit is in close proximity to the magnet. The discharge will ideally be enclosed in a vacuum tube. Also see my video with excerpts from a coast to coast interview of Dr. John Brandenburg who describes this arrangement as the key to anti-gravity. Poynting Vector pt2 Interview of Dr. John Brandenburg - YouTube

Bear in mind that the animation I pointed you to has changed in my mind. I was advised by an experienced Tesla coil builder that building a Tesla coil to operate at around 1Khz (60K rpm) was technically difficult. Unless someone can prove that wrong I'm left with pulsed HV dc or a higher frequency Tesla coil. If the later I would not be concerned with timing as shown in the animation. If there is an effect then it would be scattered and not directed as with the pulsed HV dc.

What is the diameter of your rotor magnet so I can tell you what the forces are at different speeds......

1" by 1" with 1/4" hole for shaft.

if you really want to know..... Not sure I would....glad you have a blast shield...I would still be careful to position myself out of the line of fire and preferably two blocks away.

For the more "care free" that would like to reproduce this device, you don't have to run it 76k rpm. lol There are many things you can experiment with. The materials are relatively inexpensive. I'm going to try many different things. I will be doing more sound energy harvesting experiments hopefully with a resonant chamber. etc.

As far a skycollection goes...I will diagram what I believe is the method of winding the compressed starship.

Look forward to that.

Why do you think you need big bemf spikes? Again, I need to study your work...I'll check in later

What is the alternative? Small or none? Is it better to have none? If not don't I want to recovery every bit of energy used to create the magnetic field? And doesn't the spike represent the energy used? If so then I want to recover it and use it again. This thinking is operating under the premise that having more is better than none. Am I wrong?

Jim

[OrionLightShip]

See my animation, it's short. P-Motor experiment description and animation - YouTube

I will watch that tonight.

Also see my video with excerpts from a coast to coast interview of Dr. John Brandenburg who describes this arrangement as the key to anti-gravity. Poynting Vector pt2 Interview of Dr. John Brandenburg - YouTube

I wasn't too impressed with him. He said that the poynting vector created gravity, which is incorrect because it only affects the movement of charged particles. It is the same setup that the navy uses in a catapillar drive...magnetohydrodynamics. Inversely, if you blow ionized gases through a chamber with an H-field, a voltage will appear on the cross field plates. The voltage is low unless many plates are wired in series. High current, low voltage like a faraday disk.

But I see you talk about using plasma so you are on the right track if you intend to move plasma through an H-field you will impress a voltage on cross field plates


Bear in mind that the animation I pointed you to has changed in my mind. I was advised by an experienced Tesla coil builder that building a Tesla coil to operate at around 1Khz (60K rpm) was technically difficult. Unless someone can prove that wrong I'm left with pulsed HV dc or a higher frequency Tesla coil. If the later I would not be concerned with timing as shown in the animation. If there is an effect then it would be scattered and not directed as with the pulsed HV dc.

I'll watch the video first chance I get.


1" by 1" with 1/4" hole for shaft.

Thanks


For the more "care free" that would like to reproduce this device, you don't have to run it 76k rpm. lol There are many things you can experiment with. The materials are relatively inexpensive. I'm going to try many different things. I will be doing more sound energy harvesting experiments hopefully with a resonant chamber. etc.



Look forward to that.



What is the alternative? Small or none? Is it better to have none? If not don't I want to recovery every bit of energy used to create the magnetic field? And doesn't the spike represent the energy used? If so then I want to recover it and use it again. This thinking is operating under the premise that having more is better than none. Am I wrong?

I removed that question after going back and seeing you are using the captured BEMF

Jim

Ok it insists I have ten letters down here somewhere

[OrionLightShip]

Ok, I watched the animation and explanation video. I will have to think about that for a couple of days I'm sure, to see if I can figure out a way to harness the S-field. At least now I have a full understanding of what you are doing.

As for the starship coil...if you look at this video by hhoforvolts and freeze it at 1:42 you will see the gap formed between the golf tee and the main circle of the coil. All the wire in the star point...is useless to the field and wasted.

Cut a small triangle piece to fit in that gap and up against the main coil. That is your new winding jig instead of the golf tees. Would be nice if the outer side of the jig was rounded to the proper arc but wouldn't be necessary. Fit finished coil into pvc and pot it if desired.

Another problem to be solved: I think skycollection uses larger wire. It might be better for lower resistance and to utilize the current capacity of the mosfets with lower voltage. I don't know motors that well. Smaller wire more turns or larger wire less turns but more current. Which is better....I have no clue.

[OrionLightShip]

I think you have invented a new rocket ship ion thruster.

[mnsman]

As for the starship coil...if you look at this video by hhoforvolts and freeze it at 1:42 you will see the gap formed between the golf tee and the main circle of the coil. All the wire in the star point...is useless to the field and wasted.

Cut a small triangle piece to fit in that gap and up against the main coil. That is your new winding jig instead of the golf tees. Would be nice if the outer side of the jig was rounded to the proper arc but wouldn't be necessary. Fit finished coil into pvc and pot it if desired.

Close to this? Starship with tips removed (bypassed). Not the best editing job but I think it's what you are talking about. Same number of tees (12) represented by yellow circles. Golf tees or similar move inward and shift direction around the circle.

modified starship coil.jpg

Which wire gauge would have to be sorted out.

Ion thruster. One of my friends commented on one of my vids asking if I was trying to make a wormhole. Funny.

[OrionLightShip]

yes, basically...but you can move that outer circle almost completely in to the inner coil if you use different pegs like this: the smaller the better as long as it maintains the inner coil shape which can also encompass a hollow or pvc core so other cores can be inserted if desired. Ferrite cores would probably give you a boost at the frequency you are using...maybe even silicon steel would boost it...not sure...not an expert on coils by any means...the rodin stuff attracts me to learn more though, especially the starship.


starship by OrionLightShip, on Flickr

The peg that creates the star is not used....star point added for reference only. the new winding jig is rounded and close in to the working coil, saving wire and creating something more easily packaged.

[mnsman]

Synchronicity

I've lack direction since the catastrophic failure of my coil. Now that the device is back on line I have so many things to try and seemingly so little time to implement. Now I've found my direction.

Yesterday, as I was driving home I began to think about a micro-controller again and how I would make a youtube video call-out for assistance again. I wondered why there isn't an off the shelf controller with open source code specifically designed for experimenting with pulsed dc motors. There may in fact be but until yesterday I hadn't found it. It came to me.. at least I hope it has.

Last night I gave a dog and pony show of my motor to some young engineering students. I thought this would take about ten minutes and I'd be done. Much to my surprise one of the students was quite knowledgeable in the area of OU. In fact, as much so as I. The conversation progressed and lo and behold he has designed and is offering an off the shelf micro-controller with open source code specifically designed for controlling pulsed dc motors. SYNCHRONICITY! WOW! We went through all of the details and it sounds like a plug and play scenario. This is the controller he is using and has code for: AVR-MT-128 Atmel ATMega128 Board, RS232, 16x2 LCD, Relay & Bu

Of course I don't have my hands on it yet but it gives me great hope and a solid direction. If in fact it doesn't pan out I will still pursue a controller solution because that is exactly what I need at this point in development. A controller will allow specific control of timing and pulse duration which will allow optimized control of speed and input power. It will also allow specific timing of discharge to a load. It will be a wonderful benefit.

Still on my list is to build several different coils for testing... to include the modified starship coil as suggested by Orion. The modified starship coil will contain in it's core a removeable pancake coil. These two coils can be run in series or parallel. I still have high voltage experiments to perform as well as experiments yet go be designed for acoustic energy harvesting. Not to mention tests need to be conducted with my second nearly identical coil.

Once I get my hands on the controller and code, begin testing and gain approval from my source I will reveal more information. He has a web site in development designed for open source OU collaboration. I will reveal that when the time comes.

There's my update for now.

[OrionLightShip]

Atmega

The Atmega 128 is pretty much the standard for Arduino boards. I have a duemilanove with that chip. I also have a brand new 328 chip that will go on that same board for twice the memory.

It is handy to program being powered and programmed by way of USB. It also has external power input as well. His code should be a perfect match already.

For input and output sensing and control, I built a screw terminal breakout shield for it. Easy in and out without soldering.

The Atmega board shown in the link is beautiful. Mine is free if you want it.

Orion

[OrionLightShip]

Actually I am probably wrong.
If he is not using the Arduino platform but is using an Atmega board and software....his software would have to be ported over...probably not to difficult though. Certainly understandable if you want to stick with his platform and code as well

The Atmega 128 is pretty much the standard for Arduino boards. I have a duemilanove with that chip. I also have a brand new 328 chip that will go on that same board for twice the memory.

It is handy to program being powered and programmed by way of USB. It also has external power input as well. His code should be a perfect match already.

For input and output sensing and control, I built a screw terminal breakout shield for it. Easy in and out without soldering.

The Atmega board shown in the link is beautiful. Mine is free if you want it.

Orion

[mnsman]

Actually I am probably wrong.
If he is not using the Arduino platform but is using an Atmega board and software....his software would have to be ported over...probably not to difficult though. Certainly understandable if you want to stick with his platform and code as well

Hi Orion,

I have the Arduino already. Haven't done anything with it. I do have some code that is open source for running a Muller motor. The programmer who wrote the code said it wasn't fast enough for what I'm doing so I haven't even tried it. The guy I spoke with last night said the Atmega board is fast enough even though it's the same speed as the Arduino. He thought there is too much overhead with the Arduino code which might make it not able to handle the speed. Not sure. The thing I like about the Atmega board is the display built into it. It will make things a little bit easier to adjust on the fly as well as provide a tach reading directly. The Atmega board also has many more options built right into it that may or may not come in handy.

I sure do appreciate your offer but I will decline for now. Hopefully today I will get to see his school project which is using the controller and code. Waiting for a call back.

[mnsman]

First test parallel power mosfets

Not much luck with running the first test of parallel power mosfets. Ran two stw8nb100 power mosfets in parallel. The test lasted about 3-4 seconds and one of them failed. Yet it charged the 4 series caps (equivalent to single cap 675uf 1600v ) up to 450V before stopping. Test input voltage = 39Vdc (3 each 12V batteries). Going back to power supply for next test. Need a power on circuit that gradually applies full source when on bats.

The fet that was being run alone, prior to addition of second fet, was the one that failed. Can't afford to keep losing power mosfets- they are pricey and my stock is dwindling.

[erfinder]

Not much luck with running the first test of parallel power mosfets. Ran two stw8nb100 power mosfets in parallel. The test lasted about 3-4 seconds and one of them failed. Yet it charged the 4 series caps (equivalent to single cap 675uf 1600v ) up to 450V before stopping. Test input voltage = 39Vdc (3 each 12V batteries). Going back to power supply for next test. Need a power on circuit that gradually applies full source when on bats.

The fet that was being run alone, prior to addition of second fet, was the one that failed. Can't afford to keep losing power mosfets- they are pricey and my stock is dwindling.

Hello,

You may have mentioned this already, so forgive my asking again...what is the goal? What is it that you are trying to accomplish?


Merry Christmas....

Regards