My 76,000 rpm pulsed dc motor

[mnsman]

2 much juice lol

I guess it's bad to charge up capacitor and suddenly discharge it. That's a lot of energy going through the resistor for a short period of time not allowing heat to dissipate. I think it's safer to have a separate pick up coil for load testing. Fly back EMF energy comes from the supply itself and it's a good chunk.

Yeah 2 much juice. I keep on doing the same thing expecting different results. What's the definition of insanity? lol

I've proven it will run those loads. Not sure why I keep taking the load off and letting the recovery cap get so high. Will use a bigger resistor. Not ready to go through what it takes to mount the pickup yet. I have a second nearly identical coil as drive coil.

[willy96]

well in my opinion as i have demoed .. i recomend PUTTING A CAP ON THE BACK side of the circuit ... so as to allow your motor to run fast .. if the goal is mechanical work .. and high speed ..

does you motor accelerate when the bemf is compounded in a cap .. ?
if the answer is no ... your circuit needs work ...

W

my motor works diffrent than yours in the aspect as i add more recharge batteries my motor runs faster ..

so case and point ... i can supply 12vdc input and if i took 120vdc output.. my motor will run faster to ballance out put .. the more work i put on it to do the faster it spins to ballance it

does your motor operate this way ? it may work this way and has gone un noticed .....

[quantumuppercut]

Yeah 2 much juice. I keep on doing the same thing expecting different results. What's the definition of insanity? lol

I've proven it will run those loads. Not sure why I keep taking the load off and letting the recovery cap get so high. Will use a bigger resistor. Not ready to go through what it takes to mount the pickup yet. I have a second nearly identical coil as drive coil.

That or you can step down the cap value (if you just want to see voltage). Not sure why you want a bigger recovery cap. This way even if it charge to high voltage, it won't burn resistors. I think most of the energy comes from kinetic of the rotor if it going OU.

[mnsman]

That or you can step down the cap value (if you just want to see voltage). Not sure why you want a bigger recovery cap. This way even if it charge to high voltage, it won't burn resistors. I think most of the energy comes from kinetic of the rotor if it going OU.

Didn't mean bigger farad value. Meant cap with higher voltage rating.

Really need to concentrate on the efficiency. I want to accurately know what the overall output is vs input. Heat/audio/recovered bemf/ac generated/rotational energy. It's currently beyond me. Maybe I will approach the local university to see if they want to take it on as an engineering exercise.

I found information about the 120db reading I took but it means nothing to me. Furthermore the 120db reading was taken with a cheap meter. It measured only up to 8KHz and this device's harmonic spectrum ranges from the primary freq (ex. 1Khz) to 15Khz. The 15Khz is also an unknown value because of the bandwidth limit of the microphone on the camera. The amplitudes of the harmonics are also of question because of the mic. Therefore the measurements I've taken of the audio output are probably low.

Here is what I found regarding db measurement:
sound pressure level =120db
Sound Pressure = 20p/m2
Sound Intensity = 1W/m2
What does it mean? Nothing if the sound energy cannot be efficiently converted to useable electrical energy.

Tested last night. Recorded it but have not posted or analyzed and not sure if I will post it on youtube. Discouraged by lack of audience participation. I need ideas and help. If I don't get any then I might as well not waste my time posting. Last night I did a load test unwittingly. I need to watch the video in order to comment accurately on readings.

Off load: Speed was not spectacular (about 60000 rpm) but coil output was closing in on 900Vdc on recovery cap before shutting it down. It charges in a hurry. I was expecting more speed with 3x12v bat. input. Pulse timing and duration is a problem. Desperately need a micro controller and programmer assistance. FYI: Let the smoke out of another power mosfet. Will add larger heat sink and possibly fan.

This has pretty much turned into a blog. Not into blogging. Think I'm going black for a while without the black budget. lol I will check periodically to see if any ideas pop up.

[quantumuppercut]

Yah, take it easy. I think making the motor more efficient will be the ultimate goal. Long ago I read about the Orbo. I think the company made the most efficient pulse motor. In order to make an efficient motor, we probably should understand more about motor theory. What one should expect in an ideal pulse motor?

My opinion, an ideal pulse motor would climb unlimited speed. It is not restricted by BEMF. BEMF would still occurs, but the magic is that we avoid pulsing at that induced voltage and instead, pulse it when the induced EMF by the rotor is low (top dead center). This allows speed to continue climb without limit.

2nd, in an ideal pulse motor, torque would not diminish with rpm. At higher speed, the input pulse would be shorter, but trade off by many pulses per revolution. This gives constant torque at any speed. Input should be constant since we only chop it to many parts.

This should conclude why pulse motor is OU. Orbo claims it has no BEMF and loading is just depends on what speed you want to load it. I think I understand what they said.

[mnsman]

Yah, take it easy. I think making the motor more efficient will be the ultimate goal. Long ago I read about the Orbo. I think the company made the most efficient pulse motor. In order to make an efficient motor, we probably should understand more about motor theory. What one should expect in an ideal pulse motor?

My opinion, an ideal pulse motor would climb unlimited speed. It is not restricted by BEMF. BEMF would still occurs, but the magic is that we avoid pulsing at that induced voltage and instead, pulse it when the induced EMF by the rotor is low (top dead center). This allows speed to continue climb without limit.

2nd, in an ideal pulse motor, torque would not diminish with rpm. At higher speed, the input pulse would be shorter, but trade off by many pulses per revolution. This gives constant torque at any speed. Input should be constant since we only chop it to many parts.

This should conclude why pulse motor is OU. Orbo claims it has no BEMF and loading is just depends on what speed you want to load it. I think I understand what they said.

"but the magic is that we avoid pulsing at that induced voltage and instead, pulse it when the induced EMF by the rotor is low (top dead center). This allows speed to continue climb without limit."

Have you taken a look at my coil output? About 39 sec into this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtZNIAXcjvE.

And the one where the anomalies are occurring 3:33 https://www.youtube.com/user/mnsman1.../2/Iyww-G8HZIo

Just wonder what you think about the timing there.
Not going entirely black. Just not posting all the test results all the time. Probably not posting so many youtube vids. I was on quite a pace. Still working on motor.

[quantumuppercut]

"but the magic is that we avoid pulsing at that induced voltage and instead, pulse it when the induced EMF by the rotor is low (top dead center). This allows speed to continue climb without limit."

Have you taken a look at my coil output? About 39 sec into this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtZNIAXcjvE.

And the one where the anomalies are occurring 3:33 https://www.youtube.com/user/mnsman1.../2/Iyww-G8HZIo

Just wonder what you think about the timing there.
Not going entirely black. Just not posting all the test results all the time. Probably not posting so many youtube vids. I was on quite a pace. Still working on motor.

Hm... the BEMF i was talking about is the voltage induced by the magnet. I think the 400V you get from the coil is collapsing field by the MOSFET. That voltage could reach infinity depends on how abrupt we cut current through a coil.

[mnsman]

Hm... the BEMF i was talking about is the voltage induced by the magnet. I think the 400V you get from the coil is collapsing field by the MOSFET. That voltage could reach infinity depends on how abrupt we cut current through a coil.

My understanding is that the large spike coming off coil is caused by the stored energy of the collapsing magnetic field. This is because of the coils resistance to the change in the magnetic field and it's attempt to keep it as it is. It is called bemf aka counter emf. In this case the rotating magnet is also inducing a magnetic field and positive voltage (ac wave) riding on the dc input. As the polarity of the magnet changes the polarity of the induced magnetic field changes as well. The more negative portion of the ac wave is shorted to ground because of the timing of the trigger pulse which fires the power mosfet. The more negative (less positive) part of the induced voltage can't go much below ground because the source and drain are connected with only the resistance (Rds) of the mosfet causing a voltage drop. In my case the coil's dc resistance is only about 1.1 ohm. The Rds varies with what fet I'm using on the order of 2-8 ohms.

Is this right or do I have a misunderstanding?

[quantumuppercut]

My understanding is that the large spike coming off coil is caused by the stored energy of the collapsing magnetic field. This is because of the coils resistance to the change in the magnetic field and it's attempt to keep it as it is. It is called bemf aka counter emf. In this case the rotating magnet is also inducing a magnetic field and positive voltage (ac wave) riding on the dc input. As the polarity of the magnet changes the polarity of the induced magnetic field changes as well. The more negative portion of the ac wave is shorted to ground because of the timing of the trigger pulse which fires the power mosfet. The more negative (less positive) part of the induced voltage can't go much below ground because the source and drain are connected with only the resistance (Rds) of the mosfet causing a voltage drop. In my case the coil's dc resistance is only about 1.1 ohm. The Rds varies with what fet I'm using on the order of 2-8 ohms.

Is this right or do I have a misunderstanding?

I'm okay with your thinking. They say motor BEMF soon equalize with supply voltage and the motor can't speed up anymore. I think we can always speed up the motor higher with the right timing.

[willy96]

Hm... the BEMF i was talking about is the voltage induced by the magnet. I think the 400V you get from the coil is collapsing field by the MOSFET. That voltage could reach infinity depends on how abrupt we cut current through a coil.

I WOULD AGREE WITH THIS SOME WHAT ...

a magnet is not needed to see bemf .. a magnet spinning or no movement acts as an ampliflier to the colapseing elecrtomagnetic feild thus bemf

dispructive discharges of a cap as tesla says ... could allow your self to reach infinitive voltages for nano second peroids ... because the storage of the cap and the speed it can release it ... when the extream feild colapses in comes the power ..

W

some people need to learn to craw befor they run .... nobody answered my questions my expairmentation over 6 years tought me what i know i dont even need to run as i can now fly ...
here is a good learning video
IST PULSE MOTOR PART 1 - YouTube
IST PULSE MOTOR PART #2 - YouTube
this one has no batteries ...
IST PULSE MOTOR #3 NO BATTERY - YouTube
there ya go ! see ya when ya know ......

[mnsman]

I WOULD AGREE WITH THIS SOME WHAT ...

a magnet is not needed to see bemf .. a magnet spinning or no movement acts as an ampliflier to the colapseing elecrtomagnetic feild thus bemf

dispructive discharges of a cap as tesla says ... could allow your self to reach infinitive voltages for nano second peroids ... because the storage of the cap and the speed it can release it ... when the extream feild colapses in comes the power ..

W

some people need to learn to craw befor they run .... nobody answered my questions my expairmentation over 6 years tought me what i know i dont even need to run as i can now fly ...
here is a good learning video
IST PULSE MOTOR PART 1 - YouTube
IST PULSE MOTOR PART #2 - YouTube
this one has no batteries ...
IST PULSE MOTOR #3 NO BATTERY - YouTube
there ya go ! see ya when ya know ......

W,

The abrupt discharge is what I'm after. I want to line up the discharge at right angle to the mag field and study the effect.

[mnsman]

Does the radiant energy feeding back to the battery have a good or bad effect?

To all,

Last night charged cap over 1000v from coil output. Attempted to place that charge on two plates one on each side of the mag. Blew fet and hall because the plates were touching the blocks supporting the bearings. Suspect the pvc I use as spacers and hall mount conducted the HV. Will attempt again only not touching.

Discovery. When my recovery cap is near full charge (in last nights case over 1KV) I start getting the anomalous effects with meters. It seems that not all the HV spikes coming from the coil are strong enough to make it to the cap when it is nearly fully charged. Yet they are powerful enough to wreak havoc on my source voltage. My meters start freaking out. The tach, which is opto isolatated, goes blank. It's still on but display is blank. Sometimes I have to remove bats to get it to work again. At first I thought I had dead bats. However that doesn't explain how my power supply, not connected to anything was freaking out too. Is the radiant energy permeating the power supply circuitry because of it's proximity? The only thing that the power supply had in common electrically is its connection to the mains. The scope was connect to the mains too and maybe the radiant spikes were finding their way through that connection. Not sure. Must unplug scope when it occurs again but I haven't been using the power supply lately. Been using bat.

Obviously last night the radiant energy was feeding back to the bat because the meter I use to monitor it's voltage was freaking out too.

Question to all:
Does the radiant energy feeding back to the battery have a good or bad effect on the bat? I will examine this closer. My run times are short so it is difficult to tell at this point. Still haven't had to put a charge on the batteries. But that doesn't surprise me because of my short run times. I need longer run times to examine this.

Attached bigger heat sink w/fan to the power mosfet. It helped a lot.

Noticed last night that loaded output was better at a slower speed and consequently less input current. Ran it up to over 70000 rpm with less output than say 60000 rpm. That surprised me. Still need to look at that closer.

[mnsman]

I'm okay with your thinking. They say motor BEMF soon equalize with supply voltage and the motor can't speed up anymore. I think we can always speed up the motor higher with the right timing.

Hence my desire for a micro-controller to control timing and duration of my pulse. It's getting closer to the top of my to do list. Still would like help with this.

[ewizard]

Not sure what you may need for a microcontroller but rather than something like Arduino or PIC you might want to look at the Texas Instruments Launchpad MSP430 kit which in my opinion is fairly close to the first two I mentioned but is a super deal with the kit only costing $4.30 ! Basically a give away IMO to get people started in this type of thing.

[mnsman]

Not sure what you may need for a microcontroller but rather than something like Arduino or PIC you might want to look at the Texas Instruments Launchpad MSP430 kit which in my opinion is fairly close to the first two I mentioned but is a super deal with the kit only costing $4.30 ! Basically a give away IMO to get people started in this type of thing.

Thanks for the info ewizard.

It looks like it's only a 25Mhz board. I was advised that my arduino was too slow and it's a 16Mhz board. Wonder if 25Mhz is fast enough? It sure is cheap. They might as well give it away. Maybe that's next. lol

May give my arduino mega 2560 a go first and see what happens. Have a netduino somewhere. Still can't find that perfect place I put it.