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  • #61
    I am watching with interest,but i don't know how you reach 1000v without blowing your Mosfets, what are they rated at? This is interesting to me because I am going to have to deal with this problem on my circuits.

    Its the duration of your pulse that gives your motor the torque and so the speed but to increase efficiency you need a shorter pulse. So that the motor still has enough current to run we increase frequency and/or voltage input.

    Measurement is always a problem for two reasons. First, digital meters give false readings under pulsed DC this is because of an interaction of the frequency and the refresh rate and second is radiant cannot be measured. The only indication is to measure what voltage you can get on a cap but it is best to measure that after the motor is stopped to avoid false readings. You can't measure radiant but you can detect a voltage and that is why a scope is useful.

    The Bedini circuits do kickback a little to the source battery but this does not seem to be a problem to them but will play havoc with electronic reading instruments. To measure the current analogue is best

    Radiant will flow along non conductors as well as conductors, this is another reason for your meters freaking out and blowing semiconductors. Most of the radiant flow is through the air and it will effect any electronic device in the vicinity, another reason for all your electronics freaking out.

    The current you draw from your source will be higher at high frequency assuming the same pulse duration. The radiant is proportional to voltage and frequency but current has no effect on it, so efficiency of radiant production is inversely proportional to current. Good motor power is proportional to current so a motor with good power characteristics has poor radiant performance. This is probably why you get more radiant at lower speed.

    It all depends upon how you want to use your energy. I believe magnetism in a coil is a result of polarizing the radiant that requires current to flow. Collecting radiant requires it to flow and current prevents that. It is the change in voltage that causes the radiant flow until equilibrium of charge is reached, as as this occurs the radiant interacts with each other causing magnetism. Either way they are both radiant events to me. The reason why we get magnetism with current flow is that the polarized radiant does not interact with each other unless there is movement and the current flow is the movement.

    I make a better attempt at explaining it here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post164201

    Comment


    • #62
      The worst has happened

      My last test two days ago resulted in a catastrophic failure. I didn't realize it until I started to setup for last nights test. The recovery diodes blew and 1000Vdc+ took out my coil. The fet seems ok. The caps are questionable. The hall is definitely ok. I'm quite sure it's a solder connection inside the coil because it reads an open. The problem is that the coil is entombed in epoxy within a pvc cap. I previously have mentioned that I had to repair my second coil because of an open but the epoxy had yet to fully cure. It was a mess.

      At the day job now. Gotta fix about 5 puters. Then have to watch my Buckeyes play basketball. That leaves me a few hours to try and fix the coil before a party.

      Had a cool experiment setup for last night. Still have the second coil but I want to fix the first because the experiment involved the second. Cliff hanger.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by mnsman View Post
        My last test two days ago resulted in a catastrophic failure. I didn't realize it until I started to setup for last nights test. The recovery diodes blew and 1000Vdc+ took out my coil. The fet seems ok. The caps are questionable. The hall is definitely ok. I'm quite sure it's a solder connection inside the coil because it reads an open. The problem is that the coil is entombed in epoxy within a pvc cap. I previously have mentioned that I had to repair my second coil because of an open but the epoxy had yet to fully cure. It was a mess.

        At the day job now. Gotta fix about 5 puters. Then have to watch my Buckeyes play basketball. That leaves me a few hours to try and fix the coil before a party.

        Had a cool experiment setup for last night. Still have the second coil but I want to fix the first because the experiment involved the second. Cliff hanger.
        it will be a micro short .. have fun bro ...

        you will never solve this problem ....

        it is caused from a plasma inside your coil ...

        and it will continue to blow sh!t up !

        here is a video or 2 of what will be happining ..

        500 volt jt - YouTube
        ALI COIL SPITTING PLASMA - YouTube
        here is PLASMA firewire ...
        LITTLE BIT O LIGHT! - YouTube
        and here is a shorted coil a micro short ..
        TASTE OF LIFE ! .WMV - YouTube

        i hope you have learned something ... other than just how to blow sh!t up !

        W

        i have designed a ozone plasma generator useing this work of mine .. just a bunch of xxxxx's and where the wires cross i get plasma ... hummmmmm
        but it is nice to see your still playing with your design ..
        Last edited by willy96; 12-17-2011, 02:51 PM.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by mbrownn View Post
          I am watching with interest,but i don't know how you reach 1000v without blowing your Mosfets, what are they rated at? This is interesting to me because I am going to have to deal with this problem on my circuits.

          Its the duration of your pulse that gives your motor the torque and so the speed but to increase efficiency you need a shorter pulse. So that the motor still has enough current to run we increase frequency and/or voltage input.

          Measurement is always a problem for two reasons. First, digital meters give false readings under pulsed DC this is because of an interaction of the frequency and the refresh rate and second is radiant cannot be measured. The only indication is to measure what voltage you can get on a cap but it is best to measure that after the motor is stopped to avoid false readings. You can't measure radiant but you can detect a voltage and that is why a scope is useful.

          The Bedini circuits do kickback a little to the source battery but this does not seem to be a problem to them but will play havoc with electronic reading instruments. To measure the current analogue is best

          Radiant will flow along non conductors as well as conductors, this is another reason for your meters freaking out and blowing semiconductors. Most of the radiant flow is through the air and it will effect any electronic device in the vicinity, another reason for all your electronics freaking out.

          The current you draw from your source will be higher at high frequency assuming the same pulse duration. The radiant is proportional to voltage and frequency but current has no effect on it, so efficiency of radiant production is inversely proportional to current. Good motor power is proportional to current so a motor with good power characteristics has poor radiant performance. This is probably why you get more radiant at lower speed.

          It all depends upon how you want to use your energy. I believe magnetism in a coil is a result of polarizing the radiant that requires current to flow. Collecting radiant requires it to flow and current prevents that. It is the change in voltage that causes the radiant flow until equilibrium of charge is reached, as as this occurs the radiant interacts with each other causing magnetism. Either way they are both radiant events to me. The reason why we get magnetism with current flow is that the polarized radiant does not interact with each other unless there is movement and the current flow is the movement.

          I make a better attempt at explaining it here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post164201
          I was using a 500V and now I'm using a 1000V power mosfet.

          I'm shooting for a shorter input pulse but the hall is limited that way. That is why I want a microcontroller for timing and pulse duration control.

          Agreed about the digital meter and pulsed dc. I have acknowledged that in my statements here and in videos. I have exceeded my dvm and scopes input rating with over 1000V. As you suggest I will be purchasing an analogue meter at some point soon.

          "The current you draw from your source will be higher at high frequency assuming the same pulse duration." The pulse duration is always the same proportion no matter what the frequency- about 50% because of the hall.

          "This is probably why you get more radiant at lower speed." I'm not sure about that. I was running a load that gave me better results at lower speeds if that is what you are referring to. If I'm correct when you refer to radiant you mean the HV impulse signal coming from the coil. If this is the case then my observations have been that the amplitude of the impulse signal seems to be related to the input voltage and FET Vdss which consequently has and effect on current and dictates speed. Trigger timing also has a big effect on the current and speed. More input and better timing = faster speed. The higher the fet's Vdss rating (with the same input voltage) the higher the amplitude of the coils output spike. If I use the same voltage for a fet with Vdss rated at 500V my output spike is proportionally lower than a fet with Vdss of 1000V. That has been my experience. I want to be clear so if I'm wrong could you please explain. If you have explained this in the link you provided I apologize. I will read that later. As much as I enjoy this I am at work right now and have spent too much time already.
          Thanks for your interest and reply.
          Jim

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by willy96 View Post
            it will be a micro short .. have fun bro ...

            you will never solve this problem ....

            it is caused from a plasma inside your coil ...

            and it will continue to blow sh!t up !

            here is a video or 2 of what will be happining ..

            500 volt jt - YouTube
            ALI COIL SPITTING PLASMA - YouTube
            here is PLASMA firewire ...
            LITTLE BIT O LIGHT! - YouTube
            and here is a shorted coil a micro short ..
            TASTE OF LIFE ! .WMV - YouTube

            i hope you have learned something ... other than just how to blow sh!t up !

            W

            i have designed a ozone plasma generator useing this work of mine .. just a bunch of xxxxx's and where the wires cross i get plasma ... hummmmmm
            but it is nice to see your still playing with your design ..
            Hope it's not the micro short. It's a solder connection. Will break out the power tools later and cut her open. I learned how to blow stuff up a long time ago. Just keep learning the same lesson over and over.... Need stronger diodes which reminds me I have some here at the shop.
            Last edited by mnsman; 12-21-2011, 01:36 PM.

            Comment


            • #66
              try a microwave diode ... get 4 of them and make a high voltage high freq full wave bridge rectifer ...


              my 02 cents !

              W

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by willy96 View Post
                try a microwave diode ... get 4 of them and make a high voltage high freq full wave bridge rectifer ...


                my 02 cents !

                W
                The only way I see a bridge implemented is if I add another fet at the top of the coil. One on top and one on bottom. AC input to bridge from the coil. Is this what you mean? And to what advantage? Where r you coming up with all that money? If you keep adding your .02 ur gonna go broke and I'm going to be a millionaire!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by mnsman View Post
                  I was using a 500V and now I'm using a 1000V power mosfet.

                  I'm shooting for a shorter input pulse but the hall is limited that way. That is why I want a microcontroller for timing and pulse duration control.

                  Agreed about the digital meter and pulsed dc. I have acknowledged that in my statements here and in videos. I have exceeded my dvm and scopes input rating with over 1000V. As you suggest I will be purchasing an analogue meter at some point soon.

                  "The current you draw from your source will be higher at high frequency assuming the same pulse duration." The pulse duration is always the same proportion no matter what the frequency- about 50% because of the hall.

                  "This is probably why you get more radiant at lower speed." I'm not sure about that. I was running a load that gave me better results at lower speeds if that is what you are referring to. If I'm correct when you refer to radiant you mean the HV impulse signal coming from the coil. If this is the case then my observations have been that the amplitude of the impulse signal seems to be related to the input voltage and FET Vdss which consequently has and effect on current and dictates speed. Trigger timing also has a big effect on the current and speed. More input and better timing = faster speed. The higher the fet's Vdss rating (with the same input voltage) the higher the amplitude of the coils output spike. If I use the same voltage for a fet with Vdss rated at 500V my output spike is proportionally lower than a fet with Vdss of 1000V. That has been my experience. I want to be clear so if I'm wrong could you please explain. If you have explained this in the link you provided I apologize. I will read that later. As much as I enjoy this I am at work right now and have spent too much time already.
                  Thanks for your interest and reply.
                  Jim
                  First I must say I know little about semiconductors but am willing to learn

                  If your duty cycle is 50% you will be running more current per pulse at low rpm than high but the same current over a given time, so for you high speed is better for efficiency. Mechanical systems are much like what you are doing but the off is much faster as long as there is no arc. Forget what I was saying, I was thinking about what I am doing and I need high current without saturating the coils

                  What are the numbers of the fets you are using? I am switching 220v at up to 30A, nice ozone smell with a commutator, but cant get the frequency I need.

                  It sounds like the 1000v fets have a lower resistance which is what I need. As little as 5 ohms in my circuit kills it. I have a circuit for a self running Bedini but the 3055 transistor is too high in resistance to make it work. I use not only the radiant spike but the current that follows it fed back to the source to power the next pulse, recycling if you like.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by mnsman View Post
                    The only way I see a bridge implemented is if I add another fet at the top of the coil. One on top and one on bottom. AC input to bridge from the coil. Is this what you mean? And to what advantage? Where r you coming up with all that money? If you keep adding your .02 ur gonna go broke and I'm going to be a millionaire!
                    Your right about the second fet, that's exactly what I am trying to do. I don't use any recovery as an output, it all goes back into the motor, the output is the motor power.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by mnsman View Post
                      The only way I see a bridge implemented is if I add another fet at the top of the coil. One on top and one on bottom. AC input to bridge from the coil. Is this what you mean? And to what advantage? Where r you coming up with all that money? If you keep adding your .02 ur gonna go broke and I'm going to be a millionaire!
                      you should try it .. on a single fet ... perhaps your surprized ...



                      lol

                      ill never go broke ...
                      then place another diode after the bridge .. to catch what is missed !!! then fill a cap .. and bang it on phase 2 to amplfly this effect !



                      there 99 cents ..
                      you will never be a millionare with my work .. as i own it ..

                      now consider this if you were to use the bridge you could utialize it b4 your coil from the fet so you pluse your motor to drive it but it also goes to a cap ... then when you break the pluse the fly back is reruted to the pulse filled cap wich will be at supply voltage ... this cap compounds the free cake.. you can then pull from that cap .. and it also pertects your fets from blowing . works best with pnp fet's ... as for reasons explained ..
                      since you need proof - YouTube
                      W
                      Last edited by willy96; 12-17-2011, 06:55 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Coil on the mend

                        Found the broken solder connection. Will re-solder all connections then re-glue. Down for a couple of days.

                        100_4365.JPG
                        Coil during disassembly.

                        100_4366.JPG
                        Almost apart.

                        100_4382.JPG
                        Broken connection.

                        100_4388.JPG
                        Re-soldered connection.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by willy96 View Post
                          you should try it .. on a single fet ... perhaps your surprized ...



                          lol

                          ill never go broke ...
                          then place another diode after the bridge .. to catch what is missed !!! then fill a cap .. and bang it on phase 2 to amplfly this effect !



                          there 99 cents ..
                          you will never be a millionare with my work .. as i own it ..

                          now consider this if you were to use the bridge you could utialize it b4 your coil from the fet so you pluse your motor to drive it but it also goes to a cap ... then when you break the pluse the fly back is reruted to the pulse filled cap wich will be at supply voltage ... this cap compounds the free cake.. you can then pull from that cap .. and it also pertects your fets from blowing . works best with pnp fet's ... as for reasons explained ..
                          since you need proof - YouTube
                          W
                          Need schmatic. And don't go there.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            P-Motor catastrophic failure video posted youtube

                            Video of entire test. Shows conditions at the moment of coil failure.

                            P-Motor update catastrophic failure12-15-11 - YouTube

                            Coil under repair. About to begin the gluing process. Need a couple of days for curing. Will post another video with coil dis-assembly and repair. Will show short slide show with detail of coil construction. Considered placing piezoelectric device inside the housing but opted not to. It would have been interesting but irreversible without great effort. Will test mounted piezo on the top side (exposed side).

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by mbrownn View Post
                              First I must say I know little about semiconductors but am willing to learn

                              If your duty cycle is 50% you will be running more current per pulse at low rpm than high but the same current over a given time, so for you high speed is better for efficiency. Mechanical systems are much like what you are doing but the off is much faster as long as there is no arc. Forget what I was saying, I was thinking about what I am doing and I need high current without saturating the coils

                              What are the numbers of the fets you are using? I am switching 220v at up to 30A, nice ozone smell with a commutator, but cant get the frequency I need.

                              It sounds like the 1000v fets have a lower resistance which is what I need. As little as 5 ohms in my circuit kills it. I have a circuit for a self running Bedini but the 3055 transistor is too high in resistance to make it work. I use not only the radiant spike but the current that follows it fed back to the source to power the next pulse, recycling if you like.
                              "What are the numbers of the fets you are using?"

                              I have used: stw8nb100 latest run, stw11nk100z, the stw50nb20, and the fairchild fqa5n90. The higer the Vdss rating of the mosfet the higher the recovered voltage. In those terms, to date the two best performing have been the stw8nb100 and stw11nk100z. The Rds of each mosfet also plays a major role in terms of speed and current draw. The stw50nb20 has been the clear winner in terms of speed, reaching 76000rpm and some change on 27.2Vdc input.


                              "It sounds like the 1000v fets have a lower resistance which is what I need."
                              stw50nb20 200V 50A .047 ohm
                              stw8nb100 1000V - 1.3 OHM - 7.3A
                              stw11nk100z 1000V - 1.38 OHM - 8.3A
                              etc.

                              Sounds like you need something closer to the stw50nb20 but it's rating is only 200V. It will handle the 30A. Wow you need 30A.

                              Still need to comment on your post earlier with the link. I printed it and read it just can't intelligently comment on it at the moment. To busy repairing and documenting catastrophe.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                The fix is in

                                Video of the coil reconstruction. The epoxy is curing as I type.

                                See video slide show and narration. P-Motor The Fix 12-18-11 - YouTube

                                Comment

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