Solar Power

[Nick Pappageorgio]

I'm new here so this might be a noob question, but does anyone make solar that can be plugged into a standard electrical recepticle? I've been searching and can't find much, other than Clarian who i think went under.

[kcarring]

I'm new here so this might be a noob question, but does anyone make solar that can be plugged into a standard electrical recepticle? I've been searching and can't find much, other than Clarian who i think went under.

Well , not exactly but I think what you are referring to is an "AC panel", in reality, they are never AC (with one exception, a guy actually made one where the cells spin and create AC, but I don't think it hit the market)... but... what they are referring to is a DC panel, like any other - except it has a microinverter right on the panel, so the cable coming off the roof is sending AC power, which can be used, as such, or more commonly put into a -special- grid tie device. You wouldn't want to plug it into the wall outlet... but when done properly, the overall effect is just that, you are adding to your home grid power. A proper grid tie-in system is sold for each brand of micro inverter giving you your safety and lockout capabilities, stabilization of frequency, maximum power point tracking and such.

i think maybe that might be what you were thinking about!

Cheers

[Nick Pappageorgio]

Thanks for the response! Ok, i appreciate the advice! The other day i was searching through solar panels on amazon and found a company selling what they claim is a 120-volt AC panel. I don't know much about solar (obviously) but they say the panel can be plugged into a standard outside wall outlet because it has a UL compliant micro-inverter attached which shuts off in the event of a power failure as to not backfeed, is this true? Have you heard of the company (SpinRay Energy) Their website was too hard to look at, all neon colors and all lol!

[QuarterPole]

Nick, sounds legit. In areas where we are allowed to feed back in to the grid, "shuts off in the event of a power failure as to not backfeed" is the major concern, for the safety of the guys who have to fix the power failure.
I'm surprised that it just plugs in, but I guess there's no reason why not. Really you're going to need to look in to your local laws to see if grid-tie is ok, and you're going to need to check with your power company to see if the meter can handle it. Where I live, the utilities are required by law to allow this, so long as the equipment is safe and proper.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

Nick, sounds legit. In areas where we are allowed to feed back in to the grid, "shuts off in the event of a power failure as to not backfeed" is the major concern, for the safety of the guys who have to fix the power failure.
I'm surprised that it just plugs in, but I guess there's no reason why not. Really you're going to need to look in to your local laws to see if grid-tie is ok, and you're going to need to check with your power company to see if the meter can handle it. Where I live, the utilities are required by law to allow this, so long as the equipment is safe and proper.

Yeah, they said that since the panel and inverter are UL listed, so it's safe. They did say that most utilitiy companys require a simple interconnect agreement so that you're in compliance with them, but sounds like its easy to just buy one and have it up and running quckly.

[dutchdivco]

Practicality

Seems to me, is something you have to look at; WHY are you wanting to go solar; What is it you are wanting to accomplish?
The technology you are inquiring about, MIGHT be 'practical', someday, under the idea that LOTS of roofs, or even ALL roofs in a city are covered with solar panels, 'grid tied', and the 'grid' acts kind of like a 'battery'.

Each person has to evaluate, based on their own situation, of coarse.
To me, it seems more 'practical' to start out building a small 'back-up system, for emergency power in the event of a power grid failure. Then, based on what you've learned from that, and as finances allow, to increase the system, to the point where eventually you are supplying your own power, and using the "Grid" as your 'backup'.

But, that works for me, in my situation. I have noticed that I and others sometimes develop an 'emotional attachement' toan IDEA, and sometimesit helps to 'go back to square 1", and review WHY we are pursuing a certain coarse, and are there other ways of achieving our goal, and even reviewing "What IS my goal, here?" Jim

[Mad Scientist]

Ditto to everything dutchdivco said.

It takes a lot of solar panels to make relatively small amounts of power. If the single panel you’re talking about works as advertised the amount of power it would produce would have virtually no effect on your meter readings.

If you want to play with solar it would be best to start small and use it for emergency and supplemental lighting using LED’s that can operate directly from its low voltage. I’m doing this and am up to around 200 LED’s scattered all around the house plus some 12V fans.

[totoalas]

Ditto to everything dutchdivco said.

It takes a lot of solar panels to make relatively small amounts of power. If the single panel you’re talking about works as advertised the amount of power it would produce would have virtually no effect on your meter readings.

If you want to play with solar it would be best to start small and use it for emergency and supplemental lighting using LED’s that can operate directly from its low voltage. I’m doing this and am up to around 200 LED’s scattered all around the house plus some 12V fans.

agree on that, in my house im using one 10 w solar panel charging sla 7ah 12 v battery that supplies a joule ringer connecting 10 parallel 220 v ac 5 w led lamps @ 400 ma with 75% brightness if compared to a 220 v supplied led lamp


totoalas

[jibbguy]

LOL its hilarious to watch the present attacks going on throughout the web now on alternative energy.

Solar PV is cheaper than coal or oil. Yes. That is now fact. Look here:


Solar Panels, PV Systems and Inverters Distributor

Less than a dollar a watt.

This is because of the great SUCCESSES that countries like Germany have had with it (the cloudiest country in Continental Europe now has over 17 GIGawatts of Solar PV installed, most of it by homeowners and small business). This popularity has kicked in the Economy of Scale, lowering prices.

And lets get something straight: A 250 watt panel, at 14% efficient, is still 250 watts of usable electricity FREE FROM THE SUN.

We should embrace this movement towards clean and save energy. It is a DECENTRALIZATION of energy production that BREAKS THE MONOPOLIES. That is what we want here, and getting people used to the notion will help later when new exotic techs appear.

Lol i've recently seen statements around the wed claiming alternative energy is "horrible" and a "disaster"... ROFL. Yes, it is a disaster: For the polluting monopolies and their shills.

[dutchdivco]

Again

Not sure of the point?
I live in the Phoenix, Az. area, (lots of sunshine). There is a company that engages in some convoluted financing, in order to make solar 'work'; They approach a high shool; they either 'cover' the parking lot, or use the existing large expanse of roofs, in order to have a large area of solar collectors,which charge batteries and is then tied into the 'grid'. The high school apperently CAN'T take advantage of 'tax breaks', but this company CAN. The company 'sells' the electricity to the high school, at a lower rate than they would be paying the power company.And, this company sells any 'excess' electricity back to the power company.

This IS 'creative', but its also an example of how 'convoluted' one has to get, in order to make a system which is 'inherently' NOT well adapted to a 'centralised' system, (Solar) 'work' in a Centralised society.

There are certainly advantages of scale and efficiency to a centralised system. But, there are ALSO disadvantages. After all, there are advantages and disadvantages to almost everything. Personally, I think we are experiencing a 'tipping' point, in which all of these 'centralised' systems for 'delivering' the 'necesities' of life are beginning to fail.

They are like a building that was built, and then added on to, and shored up, and added onto some more, andthe foundation they were built on was never intended to support a building this big; at a certain point, best thing you can dois evacuate the building, and just let it fall. Thing is, 'no one' wants to deal with starting over, and so the shore up continues.

Healthcare system, Financial system, Energy and transportation, Food and housing, Employment, and on and on,...ALL of these systems are showing MAJOR cracks, and it seems to me will inevitable, at some point, fail/collapse.

Grid-tieing Solar is attempting to take a technology which lends itself well to a De-centralised system, and attempting to apply it to an (outdated and failing) Centralised system. This is just my 'view' of coarse. But, because this is 'where I'm coming from', is why I say "Whats the point?"

Did see a news stroy last night; in Africa, Maternal death rate is up to 1000 times greater than in other parts of the world,and a major reason is unrelible power; the Dr.'s are in the middle of doing a caesarian section, and the LIGHTS GO OUT! So,this couple in Calif. (I believe it is) are making and distributing a system in a suitcase; Solar panels attach tothe roof, suitcase has batteries, and 2 bright LED lights, for use when the power goes out. Does NOT 'tie in' to the grid, and its like 1000 Lawyers at the bottom of the ocean; its a 'good start'! Jim

[kcarring]

@minoly

what would be the point? Do you have an incentive on your power bill, or is the thought that your meter will just roll that much slower, during sun, while you consume power.

seems like you were doing pretty good with the battery setup.

[NickZ]

The point would be that with some panels working, if the shi*t hits the fan, at least you can walk around the house.
We have been warned of what might happen, this year 2012, (may happen).

A solar battery back up system for emergencies, and even everyday use does not cost an arm and a leg.
I would pass on the grid tied system, as during power failures {when you really need it}, you could not use the grid tied system as it turns itself off.

Minoly: Your idea may work for you there, economically, but it brings to mind this crop circle:
Beware of strangers bearing false gifts... he says.

[stargate22]

Emp?

One (1) EMP pulse and yer dead in the water.......

[NickZ]

"Something Useful". Yes, As too many of these threads involve hours, weeks, or even years of building and playing around with something that won't get us anywhere. Other than fun and games...

My idea is also having to do with a small but practical type of back-up solar system that can operate a fan, a Pc, and a few leds lights 24/7, if need be. What would that take, including batteries? $300 - $500, or more?
Maybe Kkarring would have an idea on costs for a small back-up but daily used system like that.

Can you explain what the Xandex inverter does? Is it different than other regular 12v to 120volt inverters that are grid tied?

[dutchdivco]

Emp

If THAT is your major concern, it is possible to 'shield' such a system as described, and not THAT complicated. Besides, there are many scenarios that could result in the 'grid' being down, that DON'T involve an EMP; multitude of weather related disasters, or geologic; earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, Ice storms, etc.Jim