Why perpetual motion machines do not exist

[willy96]

wrong!

i can prove you wrong wrong wrong!

that aint my job to prove anything to a fool ! tho!

W

if you can not build it and understand it yourself im just guessing you aint never gonna have it

[replaced]

i can prove you wrong wrong wrong!

that aint my job to prove anything to a fool ! tho!

W

if you can not build it and understand it yourself im just guessing you aint never gonna have it

If you think something works, build it, and it turns out to not work, then you miscalculated.

Please prove me wrong by producing a perpetual motion machine running in real life. It may look like something is perpetual on paper but when you actually go ahead and build it, it turns out that you didn't account for something causing it to not be perpetual.

I'm just trying to help people not waste their unemployment checks on trying to build machines that won't work.

[shawnnweed]

Nothing in the universe has weight. Gravity is not a force. Gravity is the result of the curvature of the space-time continuum.



There is no different conversion rate of different forms of energy.




RF cooling does not negate the second law of thermodynamics, not at all.



A perpetual motion device that actually works hasn't been completed because it's mathematically impossible. The real truth is that the 2nd law of thermodynamics isn't an absolute law such as 2+2=4, but is more of a law based on the probability of the outcome of things. The probability of something going toward equilibrium is much greater than the probability of something going toward slightly more imbalance.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics simply says that the potential energy of the universe (which is the true closed system) is decreasing as time passes. But of course this also holds true of almost closed systems like a machine.

Virtual particles show that particles can come to existence without net energy being created. A virtual particle can't come into existence unless the opposite of that particle comes into existence with the opposite velocity of the other particle.

We know the conversion rate of kinetic energy. The momentum simply transfers to other particles. Is that too hard to understand?



Your machine will never be perpetual. Do you think you're the first person who put magnets on a wheel?

were you bon in a cave? Atomic wieght has nothing to do with actuall weight it has to do with structure.

DUH, there is no conversion rates for different formes of energy because we have not created them yet. It is much the same as time. Time is not an actual person place or thing. It is a concept. You have to imagine it before you can build it. And if you are silly enough to beleive that energy doesn't exchange on different levels when it is coming from different forms then all batteries, regardless of composition should put out comesurate energy but it doesn't.

And you just swallowed a camel but chocked on the fly. OK 'negate' was a bad and insufficent word to have chosen but you missed the point, the big point; if you know how much heat is generated and you provide a proper amount of cooling then the metal will never break down. You can not place the second law of thermodynamics in check; but you can place it in stalemate for a very long time. A prime example is this individual solar system. If you give a scientist a rock and tell him to give you an estimed tim frame you might get millions, billions or trillions of years and if that is so then this planet has been in rotation around our sun for that long. So do not try to convince me that perpetual motion is not possible. Even with things like solar winds, gravitational wells, etc trying to slow this mudball down it still has not stopped so chew on that for the next trillion or so years.
And how about this...I have come to the conclusion that amorphous silicon solar cells give an 'exchange rate of 42 mAh per 1,000 lumen. So usingthis knowledge would you say that it is probable or improbable that you could create perpetaul energy if you could create that necessary 1,000 lumen at 22 Mah. And if that were possible, could you not create an engine that could run sustained if you placed the core of the engine in a suspended state with zero friction, such as a rodin coil does with a neodymium ball suspended in water to vortex it. Then could you not use that vortex energy to create work. And then use RF cooling to place any heat, caused by motion, into check? You see you do not know everything and what you have been taught was not meaded out with common sense of alternative trains of thought. You were taught what has already been learned and for the most part that knowledge does hold true. I personally believe in the laws of thermodynamics and will say only a fool would disregard them however they do not hold true in all cases. If you have not learned that yet then you have a long way to go. Because the Laws of thermodynamics are nothing more than a foundation to build on; it is not the whole house.
And kinetics is just one way to 'transfer' energy; ONE of many. Do you not understand that?
Now as far as trading quips with you I am done. This arguement like your brainwashed rhetoric is not perpetual and I will not waste any more time with you because you are a lost cause. You will never amount to anything simply because you will never take what you have learned and build something new. All lapdogs, like you, can only replicate becuase you have no imagination; which in indeed IS the driving force behind all 'new' discoveries. So please take your idealogical / one tracked learning and get back in the assembly line where you belong. And leave the discovering up to the crazy people like us. After all; almost all great inventions were made while trying to complete another. Lead, follow; i don't care, but get the Hell out of my way.

[LetsReplicate]

A perpetual motion device that actually works hasn't been completed because it's mathematically impossible. The real truth is that the 2nd law of thermodynamics isn't an absolute law such as 2+2=4, but is more of a law based on the probability of the outcome of things. The probability of something going toward equilibrium is much greater than the probability of something going toward slightly more imbalance.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics simply says that the potential energy of the universe (which is the true closed system) is decreasing as time passes. But of course this also holds true of almost closed systems like a machine.

Virtual particles show that particles can come to existence without net energy being created. A virtual particle can't come into existence unless the opposite of that particle comes into existence with the opposite velocity of the other particle.

We know the conversion rate of kinetic energy. The momentum simply transfers to other particles. Is that too hard to understand?

The second law of thermodynamics IS a law, not a probability, but it's poorly understood by many people. Like many aspects of physics.

A "machine" is no more a closed system than you are.

Have you ever stopped to consider how stupid the idea of a "virtual particle" is? The "particles" are just placeholders for energy quanta, which are actually waves and vortices. "Particles" only act like particles when the when the outermost current is striped off by "observation".

...I really did think you might want a serious discussion, but from your responses in this thread it looks like you are just be here to troll... That's a pity.

[willy96]

If you think something works, build it, and it turns out to not work, then you miscalculated.

Please prove me wrong by producing a perpetual motion machine running in real life. It may look like something is perpetual on paper but when you actually go ahead and build it, it turns out that you didn't account for something causing it to not be perpetual.

I'm just trying to help people not waste their unemployment checks on trying to build machines that won't work.

ok

makes sence
it does work
its hard to make it work ..
i have made this a year or 2 ago ...

i can remove all batteries .. and it will run with out put .. i have closed looped it, it charges its self while powering

as well i built the g6 it recharges its source and puts out 30vdc x 6 as well as rechargeing itsself ..

its fully automatic ..

i have several toys ...

W

need videos ?

[replaced]

were you bon in a cave? Atomic wieght has nothing to do with actuall weight it has to do with structure.

DUH, there is no conversion rates for different formes of energy because we have not created them yet.

E=MC2

It is much the same as time. Time is not an actual person place or thing. It is a concept.

Time is not a concept, it is the 4th dimension described in general relativity. You have yet to understand the physics from a century ago.

You have to imagine it before you can build it. And if you are silly enough to beleive that energy doesn't exchange on different levels when it is coming from different forms then all batteries, regardless of composition should put out comesurate energy but it doesn't.

When you run a battery, you are not actually converting subatomic particles to anything, you are just converting an imbalance of atoms holding lots of electrons with atoms lacking an electron.

And you just swallowed a camel but chocked on the fly. OK 'negate' was a bad and insufficent word to have chosen but you missed the point, the big point; if you know how much heat is generated and you provide a proper amount of cooling then the metal will never break down. You can not place the second law of thermodynamics in check; but you can place it in stalemate for a very long time. A prime example is this individual solar system. If you give a scientist a rock and tell him to give you an estimed tim frame you might get millions, billions or trillions of years and if that is so then this planet has been in rotation around our sun for that long. So do not try to convince me that perpetual motion is not possible.

The moon is constantly going further away from the Earth, it has been measured. The Earth is also going further away from the Sun. There is no perpetual motion. The Earth's rotation is also slowing.

Even with things like solar winds, gravitational wells, etc trying to slow this mudball down it still has not stopped so chew on that for the next trillion or so years.

The Earth is slowing down and moving away from the Sun.

And how about this...I have come to the conclusion that amorphous silicon solar cells give an 'exchange rate of 42 mAh per 1,000 lumen. So usingthis knowledge would you say that it is probable or improbable that you could create perpetaul energy if you could create that necessary 1,000 lumen at 22 Mah.

This is false. Amorphous silicon solar cells at best have 25% efficiency.

And if that were possible, could you not create an engine that could run sustained if you placed the core of the engine in a suspended state with zero friction, such as a rodin coil does with a neodymium ball suspended in water to vortex it.

Zero friction does not exist.

Then could you not use that vortex energy to create work. And then use RF cooling to place any heat, caused by motion, into check? You see you do not know everything and what you have been taught was not meaded out with common sense of alternative trains of thought. You were taught what has already been learned and for the most part that knowledge does hold true. I personally believe in the laws of thermodynamics and will say only a fool would disregard them however they do not hold true in all cases. If you have not learned that yet then you have a long way to go. Because the Laws of thermodynamics are nothing more than a foundation to build on; it is not the whole house.
And kinetics is just one way to 'transfer' energy; ONE of many. Do you not understand that?

The 2nd law of thermodynamics holds true for ALL cases.

[replaced]

The second law of thermodynamics IS a law, not a probability, but it's poorly understood by many people. Like many aspects of physics.

Just as newton's law of motion only give a great approximation of where an object is headed, the 2nd law of thermodynamics gives an even greater approximation of a system losing potential energy. Newton's law of motion is not 100% accurate because of time dilation, wave-particle duality, and entanglement. The second law of thermodynamics doesn't hold absolutely true to a small box holding 20 helium and 20 neon atoms. Given enough time, maybe billions of years, by chance, the helium and neon atoms will both separate themselves and work could be done as a result of this separation.

It is not even possible to create an atomic machine with zero friction because there is a probability function that determines where atoms ago. Wave-particle duality has been observed in carbon 60 buckyballs. So even molecules can be in multiple places at once.

A "machine" is no more a closed system than you are.

Have you ever stopped to consider how stupid the idea of a "virtual particle" is? The "particles" are just placeholders for energy quanta, which are actually waves and vortices. "Particles" only act like particles when the when the outermost current is striped off by "observation".

...I really did think you might want a serious discussion, but from your responses in this thread it looks like you are just be here to troll... That's a pity.

Virtual particles have been observed and proven. There are particles that spontaneously come out of existence and cease existing when they go back together. The particles interact just like regular particles. The Casimir effect is just one of the things that proven virtual particles exist.

[shawnnweed]

E=MC2



Time is not a concept, it is the 4th dimension described in general relativity. You have yet to understand the physics from a century ago.




When you run a battery, you are not actually converting subatomic particles to anything, you are just converting an imbalance of atoms holding lots of electrons with atoms lacking an electron.



The moon is constantly going further away from the Earth, it has been measured. The Earth is also going further away from the Sun. There is no perpetual motion. The Earth's rotation is also slowing.



The Earth is slowing down and moving away from the Sun.



This is false. Amorphous silicon solar cells at best have 25% efficiency.



Zero friction does not exist.



The 2nd law of thermodynamics holds true for ALL cases.

Time is not a dimension unless you have the ability to travel back and forth in it...so do you have a time machine? Noob. Why don't you take time to think before consulting wikipedia.

I know the inner workings of a battery. But once again you failed to see what I was saying. Big surprise.

Yes the earth's roataion is slowing but will you be around to see it end? LOL. NOOB. How about this why don't you take out your big calclator and perform the calculations to tell me when it will stop. Once again you have missed the point. Big surprise.

It is true that zero friction does not exist. Yet suspended objects ARE as close to zero friction as one can get. So what if it is 0.000001. I round to the nearest 0. NOOB. Big surprise that you still just don't get it. All things do have an end but if you know how to delay that end then doesn't it make sense to do so. And tell me. If I leave a neodymium ball suspended in the center of a rodin coil then how many millions of years will it take for that ball, when coming in contact with air, the only friction it will have, to overheat and break down. NOOB. Tell you what why don't you make that your next project. You can have your greatgrandson to the billionth power give us the the result...I demand actual measurements and not calcualtions this time.

Wow...it is true that you have a calcualtor but can not think for yourself. No amorphous silicon does not have that exchange rate but monocrystalline does. Now answer the question and stop chocking on flies.

And I did not say that the second law of thermodynamics doesn not apply in all cases I said it can be placed in stalemate as all things can. If I placed a match, that burned for eternity, under a six feet thick metal vat filled with 100 million gallons of water at what point would the match make the water boil. It will not because the metal and water will disperse the heat generated faster than it can cause a breakdown of the fundamental elements presented. Ok one more time...NOOB.

[LetsReplicate]

Just as newton's law of motion only give a great approximation of where an object is headed, the 2nd law of thermodynamics gives an even greater approximation of a system losing potential energy. Newton's law of motion is not 100% accurate because of time dilation, wave-particle duality, and entanglement. The second law of thermodynamics doesn't hold absolutely true to a small box holding 20 helium and 20 neon atoms. Given enough time, maybe billions of years, by chance, the helium and neon atoms will both separate themselves and work could be done as a result of this separation.

It is not even possible to create an atomic machine with zero friction because there is a probability function that determines where atoms ago. Wave-particle duality has been observed in carbon 60 buckyballs. So even molecules can be in multiple places at once.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics holds true for ALL cases.

*facepalm* Is your box of 40 atoms somewhere in this universe? If so it's still gaining energy from "quantum fluctuations" (aether), which is where the energy comes from. If this theoretical was intended to be a "bottle universe" (closed system) then the energy of the system is of no importance because the energy could not exist outside of it. To make this whole thing more problematic, you'd need an observer inside the box as well, otherwise there would be no result to the experiment (Schrodinger's cat).

The second law of thermodynamics is: entropy exists. You can never escape entropy, but you can "overpower" it by adding energy. Example being: battery + solar + motor = "perpetual motion".

Objects that appear to being in multiple places at the same time are acting as a wave.

Virtual particles have been observed and proven. There are particles that spontaneously come out of existence and cease existing when they go back together. The particles interact just like regular particles. The Casimir effect is just one of the things that proven virtual particles exist.

Did you know that electricity used to be defined backward until electrical engineers NEEDED to flip it around to understand semi-conductors? That's what has happened here: the standard is defined backward.

Vibrations in this field propagate and are governed by the appropriate wave equation for the particular field in question.

A virtual artifact (VA) is an immaterial object that exists in the human mind or in a digital environment, for example the Internet, intranet, virtual reality, cyberspace, etc.

Purposes and uses of virtual artifacts:
* Virtual artifacts are a crucial part of digital, imaginary game worlds.
* Artwork (e.g. paintings, interactive installations, music videos) that is presented/archived in a virtual environment can be considered as a virtual artifact.
* Virtual artifacts (e.g. parts of simulated experiments, models) are used in many areas of scientific research (e.g. medical science, chemistry, astronomy).
* Designers (such as fashion designers, industrial designers, architects) use virtual artifacts (e.g. prototypes, testing environments) in their work process.

We call them "virtual particles" in physics because we're not supposed to talk about the aether, even though it unifies the theory. Particles are an approximation due to observing the quantum level, so it's regarded as probability. The Casimir Effect is caused by aether, not "virtual particles". Aether could also be used to describe how the virtual particles are actually created, something that is completely ignored in quantum mechanics.

[replaced]

*facepalm* Is your box of 40 atoms somewhere in this universe? If so it's still gaining energy from "quantum fluctuations" (aether), which is where the energy comes from. If this theoretical was intended to be a "bottle universe" (closed system) then the energy of the system is of no importance because the energy could not exist outside of it. To make this whole thing more problematic, you'd need an observer inside the box as well, otherwise there would be no result to the experiment (Schrodinger's cat).

Looks like we are talking about 2 different kinds of energies. One is energy that can be strategically used to move an object at a certain velocity, while moving something the opposite velocity. Another energy is matter itself and momentum which is unchanged and what the 2nd law of thermodynamics doesn't necessarily cover. If you move mass in one direction, you have to either move mass the opposite direction or convert energy into momentum such as a nuclear bomb (which also moves mass in opposite directions).

The second law of thermodynamics is: entropy exists. You can never escape entropy, but you can "overpower" it by adding energy. Example being: battery + solar + motor = "perpetual motion".

A motor powered by solar panels is not perpetual motion because the reaction in the Sun will cease.

Objects that appear to being in multiple places at the same time are acting as a wave.

No, molecules can/are really in multiple places at once. The interference pattern caused when a molecule goes through a double slit means that the molecule interacted with itself. Covering one slit destroys the interference pattern.

We call them "virtual particles" in physics because we're not supposed to talk about the aether, even though it unifies the theory. Particles are an approximation due to observing the quantum level, so it's regarded as probability. The Casimir Effect is caused by aether, not "virtual particles". Aether could also be used to describe how the virtual particles are actually created, something that is completely ignored in quantum mechanics.

Aether does not exist. Virtual particles do exist and the math and many experiments prove it. Particles AND atoms are in approximation because they can be in multiple places at once.

[LetsReplicate]

Looks like we are talking about 2 different kinds of energies. One is energy that can be strategically used to move an object at a certain velocity, while moving something the opposite velocity. Another energy is matter itself which is unchanged and what the 2nd law of thermodynamics doesn't necessarily cover.

"Matter" is congealed aether. You know that "curvature in space-time" thing? That's the aetheric density gradient. Aether is the "graviton" and disproves the Higgs boson which have not been observed experimentally because THEY ARE "free space". Aether also cleanly explains both dark matter, dark energy, and red shift without the need for the Big Bang. The LetsReplicate.com article on that hasn't been written yet as I am currently writing about irrational fear of HAARP, I do plan to cover that topic soon and use visuals so that it's easier for people to understand. The theory doesn't dispute quantum theory, only makes it implicitly simple and logical as to WHY it occurs.

Solar is not perpetual motion because the reaction in the Sun will cease.

Read my first comment on that topic in this thread.

No, molecules can/are really in multiple places at once. The interference pattern caused when a molecule goes through a double slit means that the molecule interacted with itself. Covering one slit destroys the interference pattern.

Only waves have interference patterns because they are not a discreet object. The quantum slit proves that all objects can act as either waves or particles, you also seem to fail to understand how the quantum slit works, you don't "cover one slit".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc
Note the key words "becomes a wave of potentials".

Aether does not exist. Virtual particles do exist and the math and many experiments prove it. Particles are in approximation because they are in multiple places at once.

Okay, if you think so, then explain to me why aether is wrong. The "virtual particles" do "exist" (kind of), but the system is defined in a way that is far more complicated than necessary. They've thrown the baby out with the bathwater and now they are trudging through the garbage trying to find it again.

Only a wave can be in multiple places at once.

[willy96]

would it not make sence that .. if infact the earth is slowing down and some how moveing away from the sun ... that the sun is in fact slowing down or speeding up changeing the orbital the earth rides in .... what do ya think or do ya ?
now something tells me that if 1 is changing as you imply that all must follow suit as they ride in the harmonic rings the sun produces... :P

hummmmm

eh!

W

Originally Posted by replaced i must say you are a peice of work ...
if the aether does not exisit .. what par tell are you liveing in ... ?
whats in a vaccume tube ... ?

we all live in a vaccume tube ... a vaccumme tube ....

replaced is nothing more than a negitive charged electron in my vaccumme tube ....
quick we better harvest him he is ripe ...

carefull ill pull the soul right of you !

hahahaha..... so funny! just for you replaced !
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[Kokomoj0]

start here

Entropy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Enthalpy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[tagor]

I agree there is no such thing as perpetual motion everything is being fed by the aether, every atom every planet all the same thing all magnets.

have you seen this boat

ASTROMAN - Consulting, Executive Search

[Aaron]

fradulent use of pepetual motion skepticism

Aether does not exist. Virtual particles do exist and the math and many experiments prove it. Particles AND atoms are in approximation because they can be in multiple places at once.

Aether exists and what is called virtual particles is the aether.

Your claim about not being perpetual motion is ridiculous - on a solar panel?

No it is not but to say it isn't perpetual motion means you think it is a perpetual motion
claim, which is ridiculous.

Perpetual motion is an object in perpetual motion because it overcomes
or has no resistance to its movement. Perpetual motion has nothing to do with
electricity, heat or any other system. It is a myth that these "laws of
motion" carry over to other systems - you need to keep things in context.

Keep in mind that perpetual motion is actually a requirement according to Newton’s First Law of Motion.

First law: The velocity of a body remains constant unless the body is acted upon by an external force.

It says the body remains in perpetual motion unless an external force acts upon the body. Unless is not a requirement; it is a condition. It does not say that a body must have external force acted up on; it says unless there is. It is irrelevant whether or not the probability is extremely high that an external force will act up on the body. So although that perpetual motion is a

requirement that precedes any possible resistance, perpetual motion has
NOTHING to do with an "overunity" electrical, heat or other system that
doesn't involve a mass moving in some mechanical motion without resistance. And claiming that anyone that believes that a heat, electrical,
or other system can output more than is input is perpetual motion, well,
you only show that you have no idea about any of the differences or

distinctions that separate these systems from each other.



It is as ridiculous to claim these are perpetual motion claims as it is to
claim these systems are perpetual motion. Both are ignorant.



And furthermore, Newton believed in the aether too so don't quote someone that believes in the aether to disprove something when you are only selectively taking
parts of his argument to benefit your belief while discarding the others. You have
to take everything in context.



“1. And first I suppose that there is diffused through all places an aethereal substance capable of contraction & dilatation, strongly elastick, & in a word, much like air in all respects, but far more subtile.
2. I suppose this aether pervades all gross bodies, but yet so as to stand rarer in their pores then in free spaces, & so much ye rarer as their pores are less ...
3. I suppose ye rarer aether within bodies & ye denser without them, not to be terminated in a mathematical superficies, but to grow gradually into one another.”
- Sir Isaac Newton