Bi-toroid Transformer of Thane C. Heins

[mr.clean]

Hi Kurt,

You have asked woopy under the video text: btw...how do you check (lamp) ohms while running?

Well, it is not needed to know the "hot" resistance of the lamp for getting the lamp power: once you have the smoothed DC output across the lamp (16.95V) all you would need to do is connect an ampermeter directly in SERIES with the lamp. Even if you use a digital DC ampermeter, it would give a much better lamp current than your using the supposed 34 Ohm lamp resistance, just because you now have a well filtered (smoothed) DC voltage available.
One more notice: if I can see correctly you use a 12V battery as the input power source and you use 12V for the input power calculations. Have you checked the actual battery voltage? because if it has 12.8V for instance, then you underestimate the actual input power, the difference is not too much I know but why not use actual values?

Thanks for all your efforts.

rgds, Gyula

yep all good advice, and the LEDs are great but cant be trusted, i am aware of that and plan to drive some real loads moving forward.

[mr.clean]

ooo fresh page, here's a re-post ..
Bi-Toroid: MetGlass Powerlite Cores, Testing For Input Current Drop, Strong Performance Maintained - YouTube

[Allen Burgess]

Metglass

@mr.clean,

Congratulations. Those Metglass cores must have cost you plenty. Sensational power! Looks like six seperate "C" cores: Two large, four small. The difference the increased permeability makes is really impressive. This new accomplishment is state of the art. Nothing can beat your "Hi-perm" configuration, and it's just simple building block assembly from standard off the shelf cores of the highest permeability. Was it difficult to purchase those Metglass cores? That bi-toroid could be commercially viable.

[bwebb]

thanks Woopy

I had made a bitt transformer a few years back did some testing and got
pretty much nothing to talk about. Then ran across the bitt the other day
and so I checked in on the forum to see what was up. See where Woopy
posted that you had to put a load on both sides to get anything.

Well I tried that and now it get results.

THANKS WOOPY

[Berg]

Congratulations!

ooo fresh page, here's a re-post ..
Bi-Toroid: MetGlass Powerlite Cores, Testing For Input Current Drop, Strong Performance Maintained - YouTube

Interesting video. Thanks for sharing your results with this thread.

Regards,

Berg

[bwebb]

Mr Clean like your cores

Getting ready to start cutting out my new cores and test on a windmill
type set up. just going to use a motor for generator and if results show as
good as my thrown together bitt, will build or get windmill generator for it.
Should be ready for or windy winters here in the midwest.

Just going to use available sheet metal to smash together for cores. This way I
can make it the size I want. Got several transformers but noting big enough
for the outside flux paths.

later Bill

[Hrothgar]

My hybrid

Here is my hybrid concept of the bi-toroidal and the MEG for the simplest generation device ever. one coil, two magnets and three paths of magnetic flow. theoretically you plug it in and it feeds your house power.


PS it's that simple only if it maintains the voltage and only re-enforces the amps

[gyula]

...
PS it's that simple only if it maintains the voltage and only re-enforces the amps

Well, so does it maintain and re-enforces the amps?

[Hrothgar]

Don't have a clue...

Well, so does it maintain and re-enforces the amps?

it just hit me as a logical merger of the concepts to render the simplest possible design concept at the spur of the moment. I'm just working on a an uber M.E.G. atm.

[Berg]

Hexa BiTT

bi-toroid hexa-toroid transformer magnet motor magnetico магнитный двигатель - YouTube

Video on hexa bi-toroid transformer.

Cheers,

Berg

[kavkav]

Hey guys,
I've built my own version of the transformer with metglass and silicon steel (which seems to be typical after seeing many others). I was wondering what sort of power measurements do I have to make in order to have a concrete argument that this device works?

Right now when I measure inductance of the primary, it gives me a value. When I short circuit my secondaries, the inductance of my primary rises by a bit.

I measured the voltage and current of the primary with no load on the secondaries and short circuit on the secondaries. When I short circuit the secondaries, the primary voltage increases slightly and primary current decreases slightly. Both are insignificant amounts but still an obvious change. The overall power consumption in the primary increased ever so slightly when I short circuited my secondaries. However I believe this happened because the impedance of my primary increased when I shorted the secondaries, causing voltage division between the power source resistance (50 ohms) and the primary coil impedance to shift. A shift that gave the primary slightly more voltage.

I wanted to get a second opinion.

I plan to do another test by measuring current and voltage at the secondaries (while on resistive load) and compare it to the change in voltage and current in the primary. If the increase in wattage of the secondary is greater than the increase on the primary, would that be a solid argument that this device is producing more power than it's consuming across the primary?

Thanks.

[gyula]

Hi kavkav,

Your conclusions from the measurements sound correct to me.

Try to load the secondary with a power resistor, choose its value to be equal with the DC resistance of the secondary coil or (coils if they are in series or parallel). Also try to use a (non-electrolytic) capacitor in series with the power resistor to tune out the inductive reactance of the secondary coil(s) at the output frequency, so the secondary coil will have a pure resistive output impedance (i.e. not reactive), this condition insures the best match between it and the load. And when you have this matched condition, just check how the input power draw changes whenever you connect the power resistor (your output circuit will function as a series resonant RLC circuit).

I am not sure that only the changes should be compared, I think the actual output power at the secondary side ought to be compared to the full input power. MAybe this is not in accord with Thane Heins or others' views on this but whatever the input source is (your generator in this case), it should supply ALL the input power in any moment (even if it may be an almost totally reactive input power) to get any useful output power.

greetings, Gyula

[kavkav]

Hi kavkav,

Your conclusions from the measurements sound correct to me.

Try to load the secondary with a power resistor, choose its value to be equal with the DC resistance of the secondary coil or (coils if they are in series or parallel). Also try to use a (non-electrolytic) capacitor in series with the power resistor to tune out the inductive reactance of the secondary coil(s) at the output frequency, so the secondary coil will have a pure resistive output impedance (i.e. not reactive), this condition insures the best match between it and the load. And when you have this matched condition, just check how the input power draw changes whenever you connect the power resistor (your output circuit will function as a series resonant RLC circuit).

I am not sure that only the changes should be compared, I think the actual output power at the secondary side ought to be compared to the full input power. MAybe this is not in accord with Thane Heins or others' views on this but whatever the input source is (your generator in this case), it should supply ALL the input power in any moment (even if it may be an almost totally reactive input power) to get any useful output power.

greetings, Gyula

Thanks for your reply Gyula,

I will post back results when I run my tests.

[Hrothgar]

Woke up this morning with an idea.

Inductive diodes. aka a very small magnet and an air gap for your pulsed DC BITTs just slice a gap between the primary and the secondary and insert a K&J Magnetics - Products wrapped in tape or paper for instance. The gap will help mitigate the push of the magnet and the magnet combined with the air gap will provide an immense resistance to cemf. I believe if gauged right the BITT could see much bigger loads.

[kavkav]

Hey Guys,

I ran my tests and was so happy that lenz's law is actually broken.

Gyula, unfortunately, I did not have time to prepare for the experiment so I didn't add the capacitors for the resonant circuit as well I only had half an hour of lab time at school.

My first test was with a sine wave generator so my input values were low. 1.1volts rms across my primary and 105 micro amps at 395hz. I loaded the secondary with 100 ohm resistor and I also tried shorting it. The primary voltage and current did not change (very insignificant flucuations ie +/- 4 microamps)

My second test I measured both primary and secondary while using an amplifier connected to the primary. I did this to get some significant results.

At 385 Hz, my primary was between 610 to 620 mV pk to pk or 228mV rms. The current was 216 to 218 mA. This was with AND without load. My load on one of my secondaries was a 10 ohm power resistor. The voltage read 32 mV peak to peak or 10 to 11mV rms. It did not matter whether I took the load off or not the primary stayed the same. I would keep the second secondary with no load and then I would short it to see what happens and the voltage of the secondary would go up ever so slightly. My second secondary was a little weird with its windings and its inductance so it wasn't coupling very well.

My overall coupling was not good but it was a good proof of concept that the primary interacts with the secondary but the secondary does not interact with the primary.

My third test, I raised the voltage on the primary just a bit. 1.68 to 1.72 V peak to peak or 637 mV rms. I didn't measure current for the primary on this one. I shorted my secondary and it read a current of 0.835mA. When I measured voltage at the same time the current went down to 0.79mA.

I was running out of time so I just added 100 ohm resistance on the secondary and checked if any fluctuations would happen on the primary and I would also short the second secondary for each scenario to see if any fluctuations occur. None of the situations raised the power of the primary. The voltage would rise secondary as I shorted the second secondary but only by a bit.

So are my results legitimate enough? I ask because I want to know for sure this works before I work on a practical prototype with good coupling and able to power small motors and lights bulbs.