Bi-toroid Transformer of Thane C. Heins

[BroMikey]

Mr Clean Bitt

Thanks Mr Clean for all of the fun you offer on YOUTUBE




Bi-Toroid: MetGlass Powerlite Cores, Testing For Input Current Drop, Strong Performance Maintained - YouTube

[BroMikey]

Core Selections

Here is ONE place to buy C-cores and if anyone can beat these prices please post the website.

Alpha-Core - Standard and Custom Cores from grain oriented silicon steel

Amorphous C-Cores





After finding the size in MM for instance A & B or over all dimentions with both half's together look at this current price list. Use the part number on the far left to identify the part number and price.


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/C-CorePrice.jpg

[kEhYo77]

Hi. Finally I got my handa on a 2 channel scope so my experiments can go forward.
I want to build this BiTT/AuroraTek type of transformer using the core configuration as in the picture.
2 primary coils on those sticking out core legs and secondaries wrapped around those long 3 square parts of the assembly.
This should reduce some flux leakage in comparison to AuroraTek demo xformer.

[sprocket]

Mr Clean says in the comments to that Youtube video that he got his here for $200 Canadian. Those large C-cores look MASSIVE, far bigger than what's available on their site - maybe it's just an optical illusion, like the moon-size.

[BroMikey]

Mr Clean says in the comments to that Youtube video that he got his here for $200 Canadian. Those large C-cores look MASSIVE, far bigger than what's available on their site - maybe it's just an optical illusion, like the moon-size.

Which ones did clean get? $200 for one?

Mike

[sprocket]

Which ones did clean get? $200 for one?

Mike

Well, he implies that it was for both large C-cores, and that a lot of that price included shipping.

[BroMikey]

Well, he implies that it was for both large C-cores, and that a lot of that price included shipping.

Well I bought 2 huge power toroids from Bridge port magnetics about $30 apiece and they only charged me about $15 shipping so I like these guys but that is for my area. Clean is in Canada and it may be harder to get them.

The C-Core is sold and priced for both halfs so I can get two larger ones and two smaller ones for about $50+$50+$30+$30 then shipping. So about $200 is right.

The big dogs are $140 each but I will get them later.

Mike

[Dog-One]

Well guys,

I got in touch with Bill Alek and he would only tell me one thing, you cannot use low frequency to drive a Split Flux Transformer (SFT).

This is somewhat good news because it means we can use fewer turns on our transformers, that means solid toroids are back in. I had thought we could only use C-Cores because of the high winding count, but that's not the case.

So with that, lets start experimenting...

Also, if anyone knows of a powerful, cheap, audio amplifier, please post a link. This can have rather poor audio quality because all I'm looking for is a driver for the SFT, not beautiful sounding audio. And I say powerful meaning at least 250 watts--something that will surely energize the primary of the SFT without burning itself up in the process. Then it should be just a matter of finding a good frequency to use and seeing how the device performs.

[BroMikey]

Contacting Bill

Well guys,

I got in touch with Bill Alek and he would only tell me one thing, you cannot use low frequency to drive a Split Flux Transformer (SFT).

This is somewhat good news because it means we can use fewer turns on our transformers, that means solid toroids are back in. I had thought we could only use C-Cores because of the high winding count, but that's not the case.

So with that, lets start experimenting...

Also, if anyone knows of a powerful, cheap, audio amplifier, please post a link. This can have rather poor audio quality because all I'm looking for is a driver for the SFT, not beautiful sounding audio. And I say powerful meaning at least 250 watts--something that will surely energize the primary of the SFT without burning itself up in the process. Then it should be just a matter of finding a good frequency to use and seeing how the device performs.

Thanks DOG-ONE

Glad to hear Bill can be reached for further advice but after his demo really we should not be second guessing the perimeters set forth.

I can tell you this from looking at Bill BiTT demo transformer. It has some large secondaries that could handle several hundred watts out. 10 Volts input is not the limit of that transformer as you may probably know.

Judging from some of my transformer work from the past using conventional wisdom the primary could handle 75volts and the secondary 250volts if not more. High frequencies of 3200 hz could easily pass 1000 watts through the secondaries.

Mike

[Web000x]

Well guys,

I got in touch with Bill Alek and he would only tell me one thing, you cannot use low frequency to drive a Split Flux Transformer (SFT).

This is somewhat good news because it means we can use fewer turns on our transformers, that means solid toroids are back in. I had thought we could only use C-Cores because of the high winding count, but that's not the case.

So with that, lets start experimenting...

Also, if anyone knows of a powerful, cheap, audio amplifier, please post a link. This can have rather poor audio quality because all I'm looking for is a driver for the SFT, not beautiful sounding audio. And I say powerful meaning at least 250 watts--something that will surely energize the primary of the SFT without burning itself up in the process. Then it should be just a matter of finding a good frequency to use and seeing how the device performs.

Thank you. I've been actively experimenting with this with not much to say. I needed some fresh direction. It makes sense now that Bill's primary was of such few turns.

Dave

[BroMikey]

Dog-ONE Post

Yes it is a great post and the demo says so much. It reminded me when in 1995 many inverter boards started popping up with what we use to call a PASS TRANSFORMER. Today it is called a toroidal but at the time the few windings seemed puzzling.

How could so few winding PASS so much power and not fry in the process? Of course we all know the answer (HIGHER FREQUENCIES)

So I looked on YOUTUBE as I always do and what do you think I noticed? I see a great many people failing and they all say the same thing.

The big problem I see is that a lot of them have a huge spool of thin wire using thousands of cycles per second or just 60hz. Their primary and secondaries look the same. Probably some wire they had on the same roll went on all three windings.

On top of that they ignore the fact that using pulsed DC instead of pure AC ends up chopping off part of the wave for an even bigger disaster.

Then they have no way to vary the frequency for tuning.

It's just roll some wire on three legs pop a transistor on a battery for set half ashed waveform and hope for the best.

That is not good enough obviously.

Bill has even given us the coil inductance. What more can we ask? I hope we can do well with this project and I am sure it would thrill Bill.











Mike

[Dog-One]

Testing

So I looked on YOUTUBE as I always do and what do you think I noticed? I see a great many people failing and they all say the same thing.

It's my understanding that silicon steel cores are only good to about 100 Hz. Can anyone confirm that to be true?

From what I'm seeing with my testing is that the optimal voltage output is showing up around 6 kHz, but the output current is almost nill, which makes me think these cores I'm using simply won't transfer power at that frequency.

The Amorphous C-Cores say they'll do 400 - 20000 Hz--sounds perfect for our use. I'm thinking two BMCC 16As and one BMCC 250 should work nicely. I would recommend a step-up winding ratio with heavier wire on the primary; that way the secondaries can be tied together in parallel which will probably enhance the performance.


Oh BTW, I found my old Pyramid 300 Watt PA amp. Connected to my signal generator this amp will work just fine.

[sprocket]

...
Also, if anyone knows of a powerful, cheap, audio amplifier, please post a link. This can have rather poor audio quality because all I'm looking for is a driver for the SFT, not beautiful sounding audio. And I say powerful meaning at least 250 watts--something that will surely energize the primary of the SFT without burning itself up in the process. Then it should be just a matter of finding a good frequency to use and seeing how the device performs.

Here is a link to a 350W class-AB mono amp. The Seller helpfully provides the below pictorial representation of what else is necessary to get this running. Basically you will need a big-ass toroidal transformer to build your bi-toroid - a bit self-defeating when you think about it. There are lots of high-watts class-D amps also for sale, which in addition to also requiring a hefty power supply, may be a bit too noisy for this because of their digital-mode of operation.

[Dog-One]

Waves

So guys, I have been watching this video over and over, along with the link below:

AT&T Archives: Similiarities of Wave Behavior (Bonus Edition) - YouTube

Focus on figure 6c.
Resonances, waves and fields: 3.20 Derivation of wave properties for transmission lines

Maybe this is simply another way to explain Thane Heins' and Bill Alek's theory of operation. The way I look at it, is somehow we are creating a standing wave in the primary and because of the impedence mismatch between the primary and secondary, we are getting real power out the secondary, using only reactive power in the primary. Sure sounds a lot like the SERPS doesn't it? And maybe even Stan Meyer's VIC.

If you pay very close attention to John Shive's presentation, he walks you through SWR and impedance matching, which is where I think the magic is with this and many other devices. And if you study Figure 6c of the other link, you will see how it is possible for there to be real energy emitted, with only reactive power used to produce the waves. I think this is what is happening with the SFT. You have in effect a transmission line coming into the SFT and two transmission lines leaving it. The transmission line entering the SFT on the primary side sets up a standing wave (i.e. reactive power, amps/volts 90 degrees out of phase). Then these waves exiting the SFT on the two secondary sides are impedance matched to provide real power to the load. The frequency, the ratio in size between the cores and the turns ratio all work together to extract real power from reactive power. And I'll propose this is the same theme for many OU-like devices.

Has anyone fully digested Eric Dollard's Four Quadrant Representation of Electricity, enough to comment?

Here's another quote regarding the SFT that needs to sink in:

A question might arise as to what this means in a real, physical setup where the incident and reflected waves can be physically separated. Where does this extra interaction power manifest itself? It would obviously mean that in the places or devices that combine or separate the wave components, we could see an extra interaction energy entering into the mix. One would need to look at the particulars of the exact setup to discuss this further.

Resonances, waves and fields: 3.21 Reflection and absorption coefficients for transmission lines with loads

[Hrothgar]

Ebay

Metglas "meg" cores can be bought on eBay but if you scour it thoroughly you can find the tape that the cores are made from. So a kHz custom core is attainable.