My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy

[iankoglin]

@ cornboy
Thanks for the quick reply. It puts my mind at ease. The price on the soldering station seems pretty reasonable. Could you send that info to me. Would appreciate it.

Cheers

Garry

G'day Garry
My internet has been down. I have found over the years that a lot of problems with circuits and components is that they are not soldered correctly and a dry solder joint is not a good joint and is hard to detect.
When you solder it is not to good to overheat the joint BUT by the same token the joint must be soldered correctly any solder joint must be heated just enough so that the solder becomes fluid and then the Iron must be removed. Here are some good soldering sites so please look and study them.
EEVblog #180 - Soldering Tutorial Part 1 - Tools - YouTube

EEVblog #183 - Soldering Tutorial Part 2 - YouTube

EEVblog #186 - Soldering Tutorial Part 3 - Surface Mount - YouTube

I am sure after studying these Video's you will be pleased with yourself when you actually solder your parts into your PCB's.

If in the future If you do have a problem and it may be related to your soldering Using your soldering Iron place it onto the solder joint for a split second and raise it again keep doing this and you will notice that the solder becomes fluid/like a puddle remove the Iron and when the solder is solid it must be a shiny surface.

Kindest Regards

[ntc]

Hello NTC

All the diodes are the same. Electronic goldmine is the company and G18945 (Clickable) is the number of motor we use.
Dana

Hi Dana, That's brilliant, thank you for info. All best, ntc

[iankoglin]

Dear Ufopolitics,

I will stick with batteries for now, but may try a PSU later. I am trying to learn as much as I can about your circuit with testing, but I seem to spend a lot of time charging …

All best,

ntc

G'day ntc
Good to see someone new showing interest and the results/findings of their work
When I was replicating UFO's "Happy Motor" circuit I was mainly interested in the aspect of lighting and have built 3 Units of which I use as standby lighting and also use as lighting my workshop on a daily basis.
I did however found that when I applied the circuit to normal wound DC Motors that the torque was nil I did not pursue as UFO suggested/directed to match the coils As I am continuing my building and understanding of asymmetric motors so as to use them as Prime movers first for my Bicycle then onto a mobility type Tricycle and then on to my small Pulsar car.

I did notice you probably intend to use a regulated power supply in place of batteries I did this and damaged my PSU twice and the recommendation from the supplier was to insert a very large capacitor between the PSU and the motor/s I was driving as the spikes will keep damaging it.
Please keep us informed as to your progress

Kindest Regards

Kogs keeping his eyes open

[Ufopolitics]

Hello NTC

Dear Ufopolitics,

Thank you very much for your welcome – I am really glad to be here! – and for your response.

I understand that I have two options to get a conventional brushed motor to run cold (i.e. temperature of motor reduces) – please correct me if I am wrong.

First, I can keep my current coil (3 x 130 turns, 18 AWG, resistance 1.7 ohms - as described in previous post), provided that I find a motor where the total motor coil resistance is less than or equal to the resistance of my coil.

That’s all there is to matching?

Hello ntc and thanks it is my pleasure you see and test all this with your own eyes.

When you "diode-filter" through that coil a High Percentage of just one flow current...no matter if your Symmetric Motor reverses their coils at all times...the B EMF will be canceled. It is the constant reversing of polarity within the symmetrical machines what creates the heavy front end electronic and flux collisions...elevating the temperature of their inner coils that never take a single nano second "brake"...or idling time.

You've got it right...the Supplying Coil must always be Higher Capacity/Impedance than the Motor Coils.

Thank you for explaining to me how to figure out the motor coil resistance, and for suggesting the ‘Goldmine Five Poles (550 body)’. I’m afraid I’m not familiar with that motor, could you point me to where I might find it?

By the way, I neglected to mention that when I run motors off the coil, I have two el capacitors (10uf, 250V) across the wires after the diodes, i.e. on the cold side. (I got that from a post on this forum, thank you netica!) Are they needed? Will they affect the motors cooling down?

I will try this first option as soon as I find a suitable motor, and let you know the results.

The Capacitor must be a Non Polarized one...or an AC Cap, Radiant Energy is a High Frequency current...Electrolytic Polarized Caps are not good to handle it, and they tend to explode (must times through their safety valve, but you will get a high Boom) if too high frequency is applied/stored.

Second, I can build a new coil with a secondary wound over top the primary (i.e. as described in your happy motor diagram). Now, in this case, may I ask you some questions. In order to get the motor to cool down, must the total resistance of the coil be less than or equal to the total coil resistance of the brushed DC motor (as above)? If yes, is it the total resistance of the primary PLUS secondary, or just the resistance of the primary coil alone?

The Supplying Coil(s) that is(are) feeding Directly the Motor...is(are) the one(s) to be balanced, in the Happy Motor Diagram I have set both in series, Primary-Secondary, so, here are Both Coils Supplying, meaning their total resistance sum...you could also try just the Secondary if it is Higher or Equal than Motor...and compare results.

The differences do not have to be that much accurate...I mean, it does not matter a few ohms above or below from either one...

I see that your Happy Motor circuit diagram has been posted – thank you prochiro! – and I find that very useful. Are all diodes the same (e.g. NTE 576), or are there two different types?

All Diodes are NTE576 or UL505 (Same thing)...However, I have explained in previous posts, long time ago...that using 1N4148 AFTER the NTE576, following the Current Flow...it will do a "Final" Filtering which, depending upon the application, it will "clean" even more the Radiant Flow from Hot residues.

I am sorry to have so many questions, and sincerely appreciate your patience, support and explanations.

Thanks for the links to the videos – they are very helpful, and stimulating. The slow-mo replay of the CFL glowing green is quite something.

I am going to find a neon bulb, and hunt the purple plasma!

I will stick with batteries for now, but may try a PSU later. I am trying to learn as much as I can about your circuit with testing, but I seem to spend a lot of time charging …

All best,

ntc

It is ok ntc, I know how you feel...as I know you are anxious to find the truth...be welcome.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello John

Hi Ufo,
still waiting for diagram!
Basically your intention seems to be viable (as I understood your words). The implication is usually that controllers perform all kind of checks and supervision at important circuit parts. This might cause them to enter a safety or emergency mode and that is not what we expect.

@ALL: As Ufo experienced a FET driver needs to be double supervised in order to prevent total loss. The problem is that FETs increase their resistance if they get hot. One FET failing causes others to increase their resistance as well ..... -> that is a so called domino effect!
This is the reason industry likes IGBTs for severe power applications. They behave inversely and hence somewaht more safe. For our applications it is not necessary using IGBTs.

Measures for safe FET operation:
1. Use a fuse being adapted to your current application.
2. Provide an emergency switch at your setup in order to imediately stop current in case of damage.
3. Use of a temperature sensor at FETs (definitely an issue for next driver desing)
JS

Hello John,

Do not worry about it...It did not worked based on an excitation from Hall Sensors...Next I will be using the Throttle Signal, which I did not connected on the test.

I see on this BLDC Controller something I really do not understand...since I am not familiar with this type of switching...However, it does not make sense when it comes to basic FET knowledge and applications.

Controller have 30 N-Channel IRFB4310...Now, 15 are being connected by Batt Negative to Drain?...and the other 15 are connected by Batt Positive to Drain?...and the Source from FET's Legs on this side (Positive feed to Drain) are the ones that go to the BLDC Three Phases A,B and C...

How are they using this N-Channel FET's to work from reversed feeding through Drain, but basically feeding 15 of them with + through Drain, and using the Source legs to Motor Channels, John?

I am completely lost here...sorry


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[JohnStone]

....How are they using this N-Channel FET's to work from reversed feeding through Drain, but basically feeding 15 of them with + through Drain, and using the Source legs to Motor Channels, John?

I am completely lost here...sorry
...

OK, Ufo! Let's dig into your drivers.
You have:

• 30 N-FETs
• 3 phase BLDC motor
• Power recovery

1.
P-FETs suffer from an genuine technology illness and therefore can not be matched to high performance N-Fets like we know it from NPN / PNP transistors. Therefore P-FETs are being used at very special applications only and are expensive.
State of the art is to use N_FETs at high side as well. The control voltage needs to be 12V above battery +.
There are high side drivers available containing a voltage step up converter and they can stand this higher voltage.

2.
Channel driver:
Usually motors are driven by full H-bridge drivers for 4 quadrant operation.


Now imagine a bunch of 5 FETs in parallel as high side driver and same as low side driver. This gives a halve H-bridge.
This is suffitient if you do not intend to operate the motor in reverse.

Depending on smart control pattern two essential functions can be added:

• Current flow continued while PWM-pulse off state
• Power recovery

I fugure that there need to be added some diodes in order to replace the second halve bridge for functions above.

Now I do not know if your motor is connected like above to FET bridges (3 leads) or 6 leads. Both is possible.
John

[GChilders]

soldering tutorials

@Kogs
Hey kogs thanks for the soldering tutorials. This guy sounds Australian from his accent. But a very informative series. I got my soldering station and desoldering pump today and assembled the station. Tested the resistance as explained in the manual and the heating element resistance was perfectly within the range expected but the sensor resistance was high compared to what it called for. The instructions called for a range of 2.4 to 4.5 ohms and the actual resistance was in the neighborhood of 48.5 ohms. Since this should only affect the read out temp slightly I will adjust the temp down or up slightly as needed. Will give it a full work out tomorrow.
@Sampojo
I sent Neal an email yesterday and haven't received an email reply. No change in status of order. Well everything else is here and ready to go. Do a couple of test runs with the soldering station to get the hang of it. Hopefully the monster drives pcbs have been created and are being shipped post haste.

Cheers

Garry

[prochiro]

Hello Garry

That station will make you a pro. Maybe you will get your boards by the week-end and have a ball. Garry, I have a favor to ask. I am beginning to test Imperial with the four fet version of boards and suddenly realized that I do not have a version of your pulsing program set up for a pot control for throttle on the bike that is without anything but one basic function similar to my Quadblink but with your pulse style. Do you have something like this. If not, I will test with the Quad program I have for now.
Dana

[Cornboy 555]

Hello JS, anything in the mail yet?

[JohnStone]

Hello JS, anything in the mail yet?

Unfortunately not! Monsters seem to travel slowly.

[Cornboy 555]

Mailed on the 10th, now the 19th, so much for 3-7 days?

Maybe the postal service has a Monster Filter John.

[GChilders]

Feeling your pain

Unfortunately not! Monsters seem to travel slowly.

@js
I am feeling your pain John as it has been over a month since I ordered the monster pcbs. I wonder if Neal took a vacation to Maui or something?

Cheers

Garry

[GChilders]

capacitors

@JS
Hi John
I have been thinking a lot about capacitors lately and am thinking in particular about the voltage ratings and the storage ratings farads microfarads etc.. Most high voltage rated caps seem to have fairly low storage ratings and most high storage caps 2000 to 3000 farads seem to have pretty low voltage ratings 2.5 to 2.7 volts. Does the low voltage rating indicate that a cap will burn out if it is hit with a burst of energy that is say in the 200 to 500 volt range or does this indicate that the cap after being fully charged will deliver 2.5 to 2.7 volts? And what triggers this release of stored energy in a circuit? I know that there is a common circuit called an R/C circuit that has a resistor in series with a capacitor that is used for smoothing the electric pulses in the circuit. Is this event triggered after the capacitor stores enough electricity to overcome the resistance? And how is it triggered in circuits that have no resistor?

Cheers

Garry

[ntc]

UPS cap protection

[QUOTE=iankoglin;239724]G'day ntc
Good to see someone new showing interest and the results/findings of their work
When I was replicating UFO's "Happy Motor" circuit I was mainly interested in the aspect of lighting and have built 3 Units of which I use as standby lighting and also use as lighting my workshop on a daily basis.
I did however found that when I applied the circuit to normal wound DC Motors that the torque was nil I did not pursue as UFO suggested/directed to match the coils As I am continuing my building and understanding of asymmetric motors so as to use them as Prime movers first for my Bicycle then onto a mobility type Tricycle and then on to my small Pulsar car.

I did notice you probably intend to use a regulated power supply in place of batteries I did this and damaged my PSU twice and the recommendation from the supplier was to insert a very large capacitor between the PSU and the motor/s I was driving as the spikes will keep damaging it.
Please keep us informed as to your progress

Dear Kogs,

Thank you for the info on the PSU – in fact I have already wrecked my PSU when I was playing around with a motor. There was a sudden surge in voltage and that was all she wrote.

When you say ‘large capacitor’, did your supplier provide specs? That would be helpful. Also, how would you wire in the cap – across the voltage, on the PSU side?

I watched your videos on the lighting and motors – great! Very best of luck with the asymmetric motors and transport – that’s a brilliant project.

I have observed the same about torque on the motors. I can't actually measure it, but they seem easy to halt.

I’m just waiting for delivery of another motor with a resistance that is lower than my coil; and will try to cool it. I’ll report on that when I have results. In the meantime, I’ve realized that my output pulse to the mosfet is not very tidy, and can take 20 microseconds or more to drop off; and even more to turn on. Also, with the lower frequencies, there’s a nasty bounce.

All best,

ntc

[JohnStone]

@JS
Hi John
I have been thinking a lot about capacitors lately and am thinking in particular about the voltage ratings and the storage ratings farads microfarads etc.. Most high voltage rated caps seem to have fairly low storage ratings and most high storage caps 2000 to 3000 farads seem to have pretty low voltage ratings 2.5 to 2.7 volts. Does the low voltage rating indicate that a cap will burn out if it is hit with a burst of energy that is say in the 200 to 500 volt range or does this indicate that the cap after being fully charged will deliver 2.5 to 2.7 volts? And what triggers this release of stored energy in a circuit? I know that there is a common circuit called an R/C circuit that has a resistor in series with a capacitor that is used for smoothing the electric pulses in the circuit. Is this event triggered after the capacitor stores enough electricity to overcome the resistance? And how is it triggered in circuits that have no resistor?

Cheers

Garry

Hi Garry,
you hit a very interesting matter and I will explain some facts and add much more facts while you get a bunch of more questions . Do not ask me if you insist on one simple answer only!
In fact we learned out of the textbooks that a cap is an electrical storage bucket. By charging it we store there surplus of electrons at one side while other side of plates loose electrons. They flee because of electrons being present at input side.
I am not convinced that this model reveals the whole range of truth and useful applications. This notion was born 150 years ago and never was refined. Acording to Bedini a cap can convert radiant into charge. The discharge action gives useable hot energy. The notion is that the charging energy can originate from hot charging, radiant charging and ????? For current thinking model this is a nogo as it postulates that we know all details necessary to have an overview to whole matter.
If you ever saw at youtube what they do with Leyden jars you would be pondering much more. A Lyden jar is the very first cap they built at Leyden (Holland). Take a jar, add Al foil outside and inside and you have a cap. Tesla used bottles filled with salt water and dipped them into a vat of salt water and had a good cap as well - Tesla grade. OK, you have your leyden jar charged to say 10KV and now you decompose inner layer, outer layer and naked bottle. None of these 3 parts are charged now!!!! NONE!!! Do you still believe in St. Claus and electrons jammed on a plate of cap?
Then put together those parts and get a trimendous shock!

OK, charged cap has voltage because of electrons being eager to leave it. This property is called voltage. Thre is no trigger for this except we close any circuit by adding a resistor or a switch or any sort of circuit giving path from (-) to (+-) lead. Physically current flows from - to +. Therefore at a N-FET we have the "source" leg being bount to GND potential (battery -) because tehre electrones are "sourced" to teh FET.

Ratings: If we had an infinite good insulator between cap plates we wold not care for voltage. In real world caps use Mylar (polyester) foil, mica, polypropylene, aluminum oxide .... as insulator - being finite in insulating capacity. But we can not make insulation massive because the real capacitance relates to size of plates AND distance. And now you get your answer. We want to have small caps in size and therefore we need to negotiate for size (=> capacitance) and distance (=> capacitance AND voltage).
And please note that like a FET a cap contains some parasitic properties like inductance or resistance. Therefore not every applicatioin can use any cap. I.e. it is essential that any voltage regulator or IC owns a 100nF ceramic cap becaue they can source and sink amperes in short time. An electrolitic cap is somehow a big slow Hippotamus and is used for subsequent storage. The ceramic cap can be compared to a very agile meercat.

And now: overvoltage. At a certain voltage a cap suffers on break through of insulation. It will be punched. Some makes have then a real short and can explode. Others just evaporate the aluminum layer and still feel well while having an infinitesimal less capacitance after this event. They are self healing
The parasitic inductance of caps can act like a tank circuit and thus any cap owns a natural resonance area. If you hit this area in your circuit the cap makes all worse if you add it - no smoothing action. I.e. SMD caps resonate at about 100MHz.......500MHz depending on mechanical size and materials used. Electrolitics much much lower. Switcher PSUs suffer on this parasitic.
On the other hand if you go beyond resonance frequency (might be 500Hz at big electrolitics) they block frequency and claim to be not present in your ciruit. They hide their capacitance behind their parasitic inductance.
There is another issue: Depending on the leads and contacting areas inside a cap they can stand a cartain amperage only. This property needs to be taken in account if we want to store big energy flows like potential energy machines. Tantalum caps and electrolitics will simply explode AND possibly short circuit their plates. If the data sheet says 1A or 6A AC - please do not ignore it - different from God nature knows no grace or pardon.

RC circuit: It acs like a shock absorber. The wheel of your car gets a shock and stores kinetic energy (cap) and the shock absorber (R) tyies to smoothen the mechanical movement by converting kinetic energy to heat (like resistor). If you want to know what a cap does without a resistor think of a car wheel without shock absorber. It will eventually crash at end of movement area (short circuit).

The behaviour of most electronic components can be imagined by a mechanic counterpart. This helps for imagination.

• A cap represents an elestic force like a spring.
• A short circuit of a cap is liek a extended spring being snapped.
• The inductance represents the kinetic energy of a mass.
• Stopping current in a sudden corresponds to a mass being stopped - imagine a car hits a wall).
• Friction corresponds to a resistor (an heat converter).

I confess that only these imaginations make me preemt what a circuit does - reading it from the circuit diagram only. And of course there are limits where we need to calculate and measure.
Now continue pondering and asking - but do not expect simple answers!
JS