My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy

[iankoglin]

@ cornboy555 , prochiro
I sent both of you a pm with the links to the videos that I made in hopes that someone might spot something wrong with my test method or construction of the monster drive. If you have time to view them I would greatly appreciate any input that you might have.

cheers

Garry

G'day Garry
We all here are interested and follow along with your Build
Why did you send the vid by PM we all here are a team and we all I am sure are interested in your Progress even the problems you are having. If you post them on the Forum here we and also future members can also see them and this also helps everyone now and in the future to see and answer/overcome the same problems that you are encountering.
Kindest Regards to you

Kogs Interested TOO

[Cornboy 555]

Very Good point KOGS, please feel free to post all info here Garry, we are all here to learn!.

Warm Regards, and all the best with your knees Kogs, Cornboy.

[iankoglin]

G'day Garry
One other point Garry I have seen over the last 12 or so years with the various forums I have been on that the majority of failures in circuit boards is NOT that they have been copied wrong, wrong parts or parts put in the wrong way around it is the soldering COLD JOINTS that is the soldering is not done correctly. When soldering components the temperature must be hot enough to melt the solder quickly but not TOO hot that the parts can overheat and fail, That being the case it is better to have the Iron a bit too hot rather than too cold.
When soldering wait until the Iron is at the correct temperature (some Irons have a light flashing when the set temperature is reached) have the components in place and the solder ready to apply then bring the Iron to the parts to be soldered it must connect with the component AND the circuit Land to heat up probably 1 second? then bring the solder to the joint and the soldering Iron you will notice that the solder will run towards the heated joint and form a small puddle around the joint remove the Iron straight away the solder when cold should be bright and smooth. If the joint does not puddle and not shiny and smooth when cooled it will not stick and therefore the joint is a cold solder joint and does not really transfer the current It needs to be re soldered.
I have made several JS's Monsters and found a couple did not work as should the problem was a cold Joint around the Mosfets (they take longer to heat up and a bit awkward to solder because of the confined space and the heavy wire that is required connecting the Mosfets to the circuit The heavy wire just took too long to heat up and also because of some sensitive components I did not want to apply too much heat.

On my latest Monsters I actually soldered the heavier wire onto the circuit board prior to soldering any components.

Having said all that I would suggest That you using a hot Iron and solder GO over all the Joints and make sure they puddle then Test the boards again.

I am looking forward to having finished Building my 3 small motors having them Varnished and balanced then fit one to my Bicycle and the 1000w to a Tricycle I still have to build it is on this motor I want to utilise the Arduino Board and your Program to pulse it. I have not had any time as yet to follow and learn your Program but will do so prior to Running my Tricycle.

Kindest Regards to you my friend

Kogs Just trying to be helpful ]

[prochiro]

Hello Garry

Any luck today Garry? If you gave any questions tonight, ask early as leaving for Pittsburgh in 12 hours.
Dana

[GChilders]

test procedure monster boards

@Kogs and all others who feel left out

I put together a few short videos last night because I did not think that pictures would demonstrate clearly enough the test procedure that I am using. I think that I am following your procedure correctly but may be misinterpreting the words as in the words of Led Zeppelin in Stairway to Heaven "For you know sometimes words have two meanings". These are all in my dropbox. The first shows the problem that I have with the first board. I did purchase another voltage regulator and install it in place of the old one that I removed and that did not fix the problem. I will try JS method of cutting the two traces and see if i can get stable voltages then. This link is for the voltage regulator problem that I am having on that board.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mws14oiey2iwgk3/dscf0044.mov

The other three videos are the tests of the other board which may actually be working correctly but I am having voltage fluctuations in the opto isolator section of the test. This may or may not be a problem as the led does light up properly and give a solid light with no flickering. The test of the power supply system part A and B is on this link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c7qayip1oyt1tef/dscf0047.mov

The following two are for the opto isolator and they show the voltage fluctuations that I am talking about, as well as the behavior of the led and the Arduino pulse to drive the leds. The first link shows the test on the power side of the k1 connector and the wiring setup, in case this is wrong and needs correction. That will be found at this link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6y5w777u090elz/dscf0049.mov

The last is the test of the opto isolator and the ic4 pin 9. Once again this shows the voltage fluctuations that I believe start with the Arduino and continue through the opto isolator and on through ic4. This is the link for that video.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k947r2w2zvqtyxe/dscf0052.mov

You should be able to view these videos on quicktime or realplayer as well as windows media player. Hopefully this gives you a more clear idea of what my concerns are.

@Dana

Dana I decided to abandon the first board and did a salvage operation this morning pulling all of the components on it and cleaning them in preparation for populating another board. I ordered two extra boards in case that I needed them. So I tested the components and they all seem okay.

@Kogs
I went over all of the joints and they did seem fine. The solder usually won't wick down through the board to the underside and flow down the wire with a cold joint. This is a feature that I look for in all of my soldered joints and is present in each joint that I soldered on this board. The soldering station that I purchased for this project is truly amazing at keeping the temperature within three degrees of what I set it at. I started off at 400 degrees centigrade but I was getting a lot of whiskering and so I turned the heat down and got better joints. I truly takes one to two seconds to get a nice joint. So I really don't think this is the problem. Anyway one board seems to be working, at least the part A and B are working properly. I am concerned about the voltage fluctuations in the opto-isolator part C of this board. Look at the soldering joints and tell me if you see a problem with them. Anyway John thinks that the board is showing a dead short and I cannot find a bridge anywhere. Anyway I had to work today and I will try to get it back together tomorrow morning.

Cheers

Garry

[MonsieurM]

thought you guys would like this :

Georgia Tech develops inkjet-based circuits at fraction of time and cost

To make the technique possible, researchers optimized commercially available tools and materials including printers, adhesive tape and the silver ink. Designing the circuit itself was accomplished with desktop drawing software, and even a photocopy of a drawing can produce a working circuit.

Read more at:

[JohnStone]

...I put together a few short videos last night because I did not think that pictures would demonstrate clearly enough the test procedure that I am using. ....

Well Garrry, thanks for PM and posting the vids. Sorry for late answer.

I hope you got my answer regarding 1st vid. I assume a dead short within PCB - somehow.

1. Regarding unstable reading of meter. Good news: your meters are OK. They need about one second to stabilize reading in order to avoid hitting some spurious spikes accasionally. Therefore reading arrives about 2.5V after 1/2 second.
Decrease frequency up to get stable reading 5V...0V in order to match the properties of your meter.

2.1 Looking to the circuit diagram you might observe that your power GND from K8 arrives pin1 at K1. This is just for convenience of testing.
Now look at all pins 2...6: they have NO other connection to the rest of circuit and the opto does what it is supposed to do - it isolates pin 1,2 from 3,4. Hence K8 and opto input section perform as isolated island from rest of circuit.

2.2 You have GND connection connected in a way you get bad GND for your setup. I am not aware how exactly you did it but please connect for this test at opto in and out K1 pin 1,2 and connect there your meter GND.

3. BTW: have you shorted K1 pin 3 and 4? This is essential!

4. R2 has the value of 1K in circuit diagram in order to prevent opto damage for those connecting to 12V oscillator. For 5V we need to decrease it. Given Arduino drives 5V and LED consumes 1.6V -> there are 3.4 V left to be consumed at resistor. For 10mA we should make the resistor about 330 Ohm (3x1K in parallel if you have no 330Ohm available).
Less current than 10mA might not control output of opto correctly.

5. If you use a LED connected to an output i.e. Arduino you MUST use a 330 Ohm resistor in series - else you destroy outputs! Please solder a resistor to one LED pin.
In case of opto output it is OK to connect the LED across pin 3,4 directly because the protecting resistor R1 is already there.


You did a good job so far and I am sure you will be happy with your tests if you do some minor corrections as mentioned above.

You are welcome to ask more questions. I want ALL of you to succeed!
BTW @ALL: It will be more easy to help if you could post the circuit diagram along hand written notes and connections to meters, PSU.....

John

[GChilders]

@JS

Yes I got your pm on board one and have concluded that there is a short in board one. I decided to abandon this board for now and have stripped the components off of it.

Board 2

I have the power for board two coming in on K8 pin 4 and the ground coming in on K8 pin 2. I looked at the circuit diagram and it looks like pin one and two on k8 both go to ground and pin 3 and 4 on k8 are to be used for power input. So if I have that part wrong let me know.

I have the pwm coming in from the Arduino on pin 2 and pin 5 k1. Pin 2 being the ground of the Arduino and pin 5 being the output from pin 13 on the Arduino. The Arduino has an independent 5 volt power circuit being powered by a 9 volt battery. I have isolated the Arduino from the power circuit by connecting to pin 5 and 2 on k1. I am not sure if this is correct but this is how I have it wired for testing. If I am incorrect here let me know how the Arduino is to be wired.

"2.2 You have GND connection connected in a way you get bad GND for your setup. I am not aware how exactly you did it but please connect for this test at opto in and out K1 pin 1,2 and connect there your meter GND."

This is probably my problem as I have the ground on the meters connected to k8 pin 2. Let me know if this is correct. Although after reading your previous comment it may be the same result as you say that pin 1 and 2 at k8 go to the ground at pin 1 k1.

"3. BTW: have you shorted K1 pin 3 and 4? This is essential!"

Yes I have soldered a bridge between pin 3 and 4 K1.

"4. R2 has the value of 1K in circuit diagram in order to prevent opto damage for those connecting to 12V oscillator. For 5V we need to decrease it. Given Arduino drives 5V and LED consumes 1.6V -> there are 3.4 V left to be consumed at resistor. For 10mA we should make the resistor about 330 Ohm (3x1K in parallel if you have no 330Ohm available).
Less current than 10mA might not control output of opto correctly.

R1 and R2 have been installed with 330 ohm values each as per the instructions in section C.

"5. If you use a LED connected to an output i.e. Arduino you MUST use a 330 Ohm resistor in series - else you destroy outputs! Please solder a resistor to one LED pin.
In case of opto output it is OK to connect the LED across pin 3,4 directly because the protecting resistor R1 is already there."

pin 13 on the Arduino has a 330 ohm resistor in series for the led that is on board so there is no danger in using pin 13. All other pins are a straight feed and will need a resistor in place to protect the circuit. That brings up a good point. Does the resistor in the Arduino circuit create a problem for the opto Isolater circuit as it may not be getting enough current through the circuit?

Well I will try these cures and see what readings that I get. Thank you John and all that have given advice in this area. I greatly appreciate all of the help that I am getting here.

Cheers,

Garry

[GChilders]

Monster Drive progress

Well I now have two boards that are populated and tested up through tutorial D. I am preparing to populate section E. I had to slow the Arduino down to a 3 second delay to get solid readings from my multimeters. Once I did that the opto Isolater voltage readings stabilized. I believe that the voltage that I am getting is much higher than those John Stone is recommending. The low voltage reading is in the neighborhood of 3.4 volts. at k1 pin 4. All of the voltage readings on the ic4 are correct and the timing of the pulses at pins 8, 12, and 13 are correct and opposite to the action of the pwm generator i.e. Arduino. The pulses at pin 9 and 11 are in sync with the pwm generator and consistent 4.9 volts and then 0 volts. Both boards seem to be working perfectly.

Back at it and hope to finish this week end.

Once again I appreciate all of the coaching that I have gotten here on this project.

Cheers

Garry

[Cornboy 555]

Well I now have two boards that are populated and tested up through tutorial D. I am preparing to populate section E. I had to slow the Arduino down to a 3 second delay to get solid readings from my multimeters. Once I did that the opto Isolater voltage readings stabilized. I believe that the voltage that I am getting is much higher than those John Stone is recommending. The low voltage reading is in the neighborhood of 3.4 volts. at k1 pin 4. All of the voltage readings on the ic4 are correct and the timing of the pulses at pins 8, 12, and 13 are correct and opposite to the action of the pwm generator i.e. Arduino. The pulses at pin 9 and 11 are in sync with the pwm generator and consistent 4.9 volts and then 0 volts. Both boards seem to be working perfectly.

Back at it and hope to finish this week end.

Once again I appreciate all of the coaching that I have gotten here on this project.

Cheers

Garry

Good one Garry, new you could do it. Cornboy.

[GChilders]

P6KE250CA Diodes in tutorial F

If someone could give me a quick answer to this question I would appreciate it. The information that I could get on line about these diodes show that the CA following the part number denote a bidirectional filter. That seems consistent with the symbol that JS shows in his schematic and also the lack of a stripe on the end of the diode. The pcb however shows a stripe on this part. I am assuming that I can install this diode in either direction and that it will simply limit the voltage in the case of spikes to about 250 volts, am I correct in making this assumption?

I have finished tutorial E and both boards seem to be operating perfectly and have prepared to install the parts in F.

The only other question that I have from looking at the 3D diagrams of the populated boards is the mounting of T1 and T2. Am I correct in that they are to be mounted below the board on the opposite side that the other parts were mounted on with the leads left full length on the opposite side of the board? Another quick question, What would be the appropriate height that the body of T1 T2 should be from the pcb? Is 1/4 inch, 6mm, adequate or should I give it more space for cooling. I realize that the heat sink should take most of the heat away but I do not know how much heat these parts will generate.

Thank you for all of your help,

Cheers

Garry

[prochiro]

Hello Garry
You are correct in that diodes that are bidirectional are marked as directional on the PCB. Just put then in any direction. T1 and 2 were but on bottom at first up to the notch. Some of us are using four fets now so leave the fet posts on so you can later put two more on the front if you need to.

Dana

[GChilders]

re:bi-directional diodes

@Dana

Thanks for the quick reply Dana. That should get me through the last of it.

Cheers

Garry

[JohnStone]

....
The only other question that I have from looking at the 3D diagrams of the populated boards is the mounting of T1 and T2. Am I correct in that they are to be mounted below the board on the opposite side that the other parts were mounted on with the leads left full length on the opposite side of the board? Another quick question, What would be the appropriate height that the body of T1 T2 should be from the pcb? Is 1/4 inch, 6mm, adequate or should I give it more space for cooling. I realize that the heat sink should take most of the heat away but I do not know how much heat these parts will generate.....

Congratulations Garry
I agree with Dana.
Additionally:
You may solder T1 / T2 on top side on long legs first for initial testing. For severe load it is essential to have short legs (faster switching, less spurious oscillations, less heat). At same time (searious load) you will have to dissipate more heat through big heatsinks - no space on top. So my advice is to switch to bottom mounting when going to pulse Imperial.
JS

[GChilders]

@Kogs

btw I noticed that I had not responded to you wanting to use the program on the bike that you were building. This program is really for a test platform. Once I have fully tested it with the monster drives that I have almost finished building I want to make a more finished version. Right now I have thrown lots of alternatives into the program in order to test them and cherry pick which are best. Once testing has commenced I will be able to better decide which of these or even other ideas that I have will be best for our goals here. Obviously you are a great replicator and as such will be able to give back valuable feed back in testing it. I appreciate all help in gaining better insight into the work we are doing here. I have finished populating part f on the two boards that I have been building and have been looking at the various approaches that people have been using on the thick wire triangles that connect the mosfets to the pwm out and gnd on the pcbs. It seems Dana went huge on the boards that he built. It looks like at least a battery cable for a motorcycle battery. I went back into many of the previous posts when JS was communicating with Dana on this and it seemed a little bit fuzzy to me. Are we taking a meter as a realistic figure for running a cable from the battery to the monster drive? I am thinking 15 to 20 centimeters ought to be adequate if we place our battery close to the monsters. What gauge wire did you use for the triangles. I am thinking 12 gauge should be more than adequate. I saw what cornboy used and it looked like about 12 or 14 gauge. Anyway I want to prepare for an Imperial because I will want to use these to test on an Imperial later on. Hopefully this will not be too light. I welcome feedback from all on this.

Cheers

Garry