My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy

[Cornboy 555]

Hey Garry, i measured the wire i used for the 100 amp triangles, it's 3mm multistrand, tinned.

I don't know if it is sufficient, yet, but of course it's way larger than the tiny pins that come out of the fets. If you double up the fets you may need larger.

As far as heatsinks required, i do believe from the small amount of testing i have done so far, it depends on how cleanly the fet switches on and off.

If you have the slightest occillation, at on or off, the fets heat up.

I can't wait to get back to building and testing again, just flooded with making a living at the moment.

Regards Cornboy.

[GChilders]

Wire size monsters

@ cornboy

Thanks for the quick reply. 3 mm is about an eighth of an inch, almost the same size as 12 gauge stranded wire. That was about what I thought you were using. It looks like Dana was using something considerably thicker than that. I am going to try that. I think that for what I am working on it will be enough. If it works out that I am having overheating problems then I may double up on the 12 gauge wire by soldering another couple of wires on the existing wires. We are still at the experimental stage in a lot of this stuff anyway.

Cheers

Garry

[JohnStone]

Hi Garry,
want to explain the sense of FAT wires.
Any resistance reduces our success. Of course those tiny pins of FETs introduce resistance but they are short and thus they contribute less amount of loss.
Do not worry about FAT wires for first testing. If you prove function with i.e. a normal H4/H7 bulb as load you are in the play. For those few amps you do not need FAT wires.

But if you drive serious loads and approach to 50...100A then you should add those FAT wires.

Please think in terms of steps. If you have a heap of 7 tons of sand there and own a shovel only you will get moved your heap shovel by shovel only - but you get it moved!!!!!

Secure first properties and then explore more. Want to say: Test basic properties of switching with known ohmic load first. Then add a small motor (inducive) and test, then add another bigger motor .....

It is far more important to have short wires. If your battery is 2 feet away then get those wires (+ / -) in parallel and add a cap at the end. It will feed sudden amperage for short time and get those wires out of play. It is essential to have the circuit: cap + / load/ FET / GND-driver / GND-cap short. Best is to keep them below 4" each.

If you like please post pics of your respective setup and I will comment them. Currently I have no time left for own experimenting but I will spend some time helping others.

BTW: Did youe have some success with data aquisition setup?
JS

[warrensk]

What are R3 and R9? (MONSTER DRIVER)

Hello, I am wondering what the values are for R3 and R9 in regards to the monster driver circuit (it says 1R). I want to make sure I get all the right stuff. I plan to run this driver around 30 khz, so I will be switching the optocoupler...other than that I think I know what everything else is!

Thanks,

Warrensk

EDIT: Any recommendations for a different optocoupler?

[GChilders]

R3 R9 Monster Drive

@WarrenSK
R3 and R9 are placeholders for the resistor that may or may not be needed.
Each set up will be different and so the values of these resistors are going to
be different.

In the tutorials that John Stone wrote he talks about the job that these resistors do. Please read all of the tutorials before you attempt to build this project, it will help you understand the goal at each section. Here is what John said the purpose of these resistors are on page 79 post 2379 of this thread.

". In case of oscillations apart from minor signal quality our FETs will suffer from heat problems. At every edge it sweeps over a range of mid resistance but increasing current (P = I*R^2).
You will not get these oscillations for sure but you never know when and where they occur. You might suffer of premature FET death.
As you know we can counteract oscillations with resistance. This is true in mechanic matter and electric as well.

Here R3, R9 come into play. They need to be tuned to be as low as possible and as high as to dampen oscillations. The value 1R is a place holder only. Some circuits need 5 Ohm others up to 47 Ohm. It can't be predicted.
If you have no scope please use 22 Ohm or 33 Ohm and check for heat later on.
If you own a scope you will start with 0Ohm (simple wire) and check for oscillations. Then you increase up to the state where you have no oscillations left. You will perform this test with resistive load i.e. a car headlamp connected to 12V. (see procedure below)"

So if you have no scope put a 22 or 33 ohm resistor here and if you have a scope you can tune it for better speed and signal quality.

Cheers

Garry

[JohnStone]

Hi Garry,
wellsaid! You got it.
JS

[GChilders]

pwr gnd and pwm out

@JS
Concerning the pwr gnd in particular, there seems to be no circuitry in the monster drive that connects this to the T1 and T2, except the fat wires. I am a little confused at how the fat wires can be eliminated and have a viable circuit. Although the test points are connected to the gnd in the circuits and the pwm out is connected both at the test points and the pwm out. I am a little foggy on how the load is being handled. My understanding of electronics is enough to be a little dangerous.

I have used transistors in circuits before and it is my understanding that T1 and T2 act somewhat like a transistor. The gate is usually hooked up to a low voltage signal and when powered completes the circuit for the high powered circuit that carries the load. The load in this case being the goal of powering a powerful motor like the Imperial.

I understand so far how you have separated the pulser, i.e. Arduino, from the driver, via the opto coupler. Is there an additional separation of the driver from the load, i.e. motor through the mosfets T1 and T2? And another question since I haven't clearly seen everyone's complete setup are there 3 independent battery or power sources? 1 for the Arduino, 1 for the driver which enters at K8, and one for the load which connects to pwm out and pwr gnd which ultimately is connected to the source and drain pins on the mosfets. This is how I have seen transistors used in the past for symmetrical motors. If this is not so could someone enlighten me as to how the final piece of the puzzle fits together. I really haven't seen a clear picture of how those big batteries are connected to the load.
Sorry for the trouble, my inexperience in this area is great, but I am a quick study once I have the concept in my mind on how things work. The Tutorials that you have provided are exceptional. This seems to be the only gap that a nubie like me can find. I appreciate your help and thank you in advance.

Cheers

Garry

[JohnStone]

... I am a little confused at how the fat wires can be eliminated and have a viable circuit. Although the test points are connected to the gnd in the circuits and the pwm out is connected both at the test points and the pwm out. I am a little foggy on how the load is being handled. My understanding of electronics is enough to be a little dangerous.
....

You are wellcome with your question !
Thre is ONE essential and central GND point in the whole circuit. It is at source pins of FETs. There you connect your power batteries GND with fat and short cable. Thus current flows from batteries PLUS to motor and from there to FETs drain pins and back via source pins and battery GND.
The driver electronics is connected to this central GND point internally at PCB.
The power for driver electronics shall be provided (at least for first tests separately and indepedently. I use and recommend a wall charger of about 15....18V (i.e. from your cordless drill). It prvides good separation and safe operation. Old lap top PSU will do fine as well (ca. 19V) This measure might save you possibly some burnt components at first steps.
Of course if you use one battery only you can connect driver power to it as well - but might be dangerous upt to the time you know your whole circuit does well. But I do not recommend it.
I like to use a step by step approach - one single new condition at a time. It is not the fastest and easyest way but it is more safe and offers lots of safe chances to learn and study. But everybody is invited to procede differently.

BTW: I like your coutious proceeding!
JS

[GChilders]

@JS
Thanks for the quick response John. So just to be clear, the batteries positive pole is connected to the motor, the motor out connects to the pwm out the fat wire goes from the pwm out to the drain pin. Then the source pin is connected to the fat wire going to the pwr gnd which is connected to the negative terminal on the battery. This single battery connection eliminataes the need to connect to the k8 connector because the connection is made through the pcb. The opto-isolater and all of the 5 volt bits of the circuit receive power through this battery connection. The Arduino still maintains a separate and independent power source. The only time we need to use the k8 connector is during the initial testing period, right?

I Think I have it right.

Cheers

Garry

[prochiro]

Hi Garry
I feel more comfortable with three power supplies on anything of medium size motor up to and thru Imperial.
Arduino gets 6 to 9 volts.
PCB gets 18 to 24 volts.
Power to motor and fets gets 12 thru 120 volts, your choice.
Common Ground on PCB and power to motor only, each go to battery only, not combined in any other way.

Sounds as though we are going to be hearing the roar of motors soon.
Dana

[GChilders]

@Dana
Thanks Dana, I think that is what I had in mind but wasn't sure if that was the way things were set up. I guess there is some flexibility in set ups. I was concerned that the large batteries might overpower the low voltage circuitry. Apparently JS believes it can take it once it is burned in. The motors that I will be testing this week end will be the goldmine r/s winding, a goldmine with Y winding, and the large goldmine with four armatures wound with the Y winding which is quite a bit larger and will require more voltage than the other two. I am still working on acquiring the pieces for the data acquisition system. I have the tachometer parts and the blue tooth receivers are here so I should be able to give a test as far as the motor control is concerned. Should be able to check amps and volts and temp with hand held equipment. Should be enough to get some preliminary data on the program so that I can speak with a little bit of confidence on the changes we can make on the program and help people understand it a little better. We can work together and map out any problem areas and make corrections and quickly change them. It will probably be late December before I can order the two Imperials that I want to acquire next. And probably late January or early February before I will be able to test them.
I can't wait to get away from these tiny motors and get into something with some real power. More power, more power, ahh, ahh, ahh, in the words of Tim the tool man Taylor.

Cheers

Garry

[JohnStone]

....
So just to be clear, the batteries positive pole is connected to the motor, the motor out connects to the pwm out the fat wire goes from the pwm out to the drain pin. Then the source pin is connected to the fat wire going to the pwr gnd which is connected to the negative terminal on the battery. This single battery connection eliminataes the need to connect to the k8 connector because the connection is made through the pcb. The opto-isolater and all of the 5 volt bits of the circuit receive power through this battery connection. The Arduino still maintains a separate and independent power source. The only time we need to use the k8 connector is during the initial testing period, right?
...

Yes well! You described the power circuit right. If you love risk and power with 12V only you can tie Arduino and driver elecronics to one singel battery. I do not recommend that. I have tons of wall chrgers in my scrap box and some of you might be blessed as well with those blackware. Then use them. It is teh most safe way.
JS

[Dupe]

@ iankoglin


Just glancing over the forum entries here, and noticed your reply regarding correct soldering techniques... takes me back to my technical college days when we were given soldering instruction and practiced the art of making good solder joints. Just good advice and spot on of course, many a project has failed to work due to bad soldering alone. Kind Regards Dupe

[sampojo]

Board info at OSHPark

for pcb of John Stone's monster driver at OSH Park use the following link:
OSH Park ~ John Stone Monster Driver V5.1
or
OSH Park ~ Profile for sampojoe

PS: Thanks to all of you
and
PS2: the board's description on the osh park website could be more extensive - I mean there IS the space ;-)

Roger Marxist. Wow things are moving around at OSHPark. None of my older links seem to work anymore. Had a nice write up somewhere there. Now the only way to find it seems to be under my profile. Guess we may need to repost it from time to time. I can't even seem to find it with their search?

[African]

Ufopolitics your circuit

Hi Ufopolitics

Did you have any luck with this circuit or new developments

Ufo Photo by johanjg40 | Photobucket

I played with a similar circuit for some time now my problem is that it blows
my components, it builds up to high volts up to 3Kv cannot say for sure my
multimeter only read to 600 volts dc and ac. I believe that to drive this
circuit that your signal generator should be separated from the rest of the
device.

Any thoughts would be appreciated
Thank you
Regards Johan
PS IF somebody can help me to post an image directly into my post
i wil be most gratefull