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  • ok john,

    Here's a video of the small light, hi/lo, before I tried coil.

    Pictures by Thugugly - Photobucket.

    I know this is not much but it's as far as I have gone. The cap across the 8-5 pin of opto was .1uf/50v.

    I hoped it would work, as I won't be home for 1-2 weeks, I can't wait till I'm back, i'm sure john you will have it working, and I can save some money

    Peace and good luck JohnStone

    Thug

    Comment


    • Originally posted by kEhYo77 View Post
      @thug & All

      I tried the high-low side driven switch like that and had similar problems. Smoked some silicone too
      In the driver's datasheet there info on suppressing negative transients when hard switching inductive loads by adding more resistance to the gate lead. Eventually I abandoned that config and I am working with low side only MOSFETs and IGBTs with low RdsON and high dv/dt
      Tesla did abrupt switching with spark gap and mercury type low resistance commutators and others confirm that the BEMF effect is most powerful when the time to turn on/off the transistor approaches 0!

      kEhYo
      Thanks for tip kEhYo77, This is same behavior I got when I tried the ir2101, thought I would give it one last try with opto's, still have a few left, and two dc/dc converters, so I'm not quite done yet, Go JohnStone Go.

      So far the best hi/lo driver was the homemade n-fet, driving the hi pfets, it worked for 24 v, vnice, but i can't get these factory drivers to switch 24v without frying something.

      BTW, Nice setup.

      I would love to know more about your shorting technique, you should start another thread, sounds really interesting.

      Peace

      Thug

      Comment


      • Maybe we should be using a higher coil resistance to drive hi/lo. I measured the incandesent light (il) resistance (5.7 ohms), will unhook the bifilar (1.2 ohm), and use a (2.4 ohm) coil, and add (3 parallel,10 ohms resistance) to bring it up to the (il) resistance, and try once more before i go. I could at least have a few more converters for when i get home... I'm sure JohnStone or Dana it have it working by then.

        I think i will use a higher gate resistance as well, 2.2 k, Larry mentioned that he thought it might need to be higher as well, I think. It worked with the homemade shifter.

        But not tonight

        Thug

        Comment


        • RE Pots

          Originally posted by larryross View Post
          Ian
          I see 2 pots on your circuit board. I assume the 50K pot is for the frequency adjust, but what is the other one for?

          Regards
          Larry
          G'Day Larry,Thugugly
          I have loaded some detailed pics in my PhotoBucker here for a clearer view

          Sun 8 July 2012 pictures by Kogs1 - Photobucket

          In the above pic it is the same one I used but was an old pic where I had left out 2 jumpers I had included the jumpers in the cuit under test
          @ Larry
          There is only one pot in my circuit in the photo at the bottom there are 2 blue wires they go to each side of the 50k pot the brown one goes to the wiper.
          The green wire at the bottom is running under the board to connected to the earth bus that runs along at the top of the picture along the underside where all the earths are it connects to the regulator earth.
          At the left the red wire comes from the regulator and the brown wire goes to the input of the Mosfets.

          Larry If I leave this oscillator out of the Machine and remove the coil and large Diodes from the circuit and replace the CLF with an 36v bulb then connect the output from the regulator direct to the input of the mosfets the 36v bulb lights up bright

          Please Larry in your circuit LM339 /4 comparitor it shows R5 as 38k the only resistors I can get here are 38k3 would these be OK

          @ Thugugly
          The pic above is my circuit exactly except it does not show two blue jumpers though they were in the circuit when tested . The copper wires are woven through the board to each component and where there is a line where you do not see the wire as it would connect with/crossover the other wire it actually runs under the board I have tried 3 different 555 timers

          I do appreciate Your help
          Regards

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ampsvolts View Post
            Hi to all my US friends.. Nice to Know UFO is OK -



            Any suggestions as to where I can buy a couple of these motors.. Seems that there is no shipping to international customers and I am "down under"

            I would appreciate any suggestions.
            Cheers
            AmpsVolts
            G'Day AmpsVolts
            Try here
            Super Speed 9-18VDC Hobby Motor | eBay

            Regards

            Comment


            • Thanks Ian for your consideration,
              Checked the link out but others beat me to it.. will keep looking
              Cheers - Waiting for the next UFO installment

              Found the motors in the UK at Miscellaneous components
              Last edited by ampsvolts; 07-08-2012, 12:24 PM. Reason: update

              Comment


              • Ian I thought you said your oscillator worked except when you connected it to the FET board.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by iankoglin View Post
                  G'Day Larry,Thugugly
                  I have loaded some detailed pics in my PhotoBucker here for a clearer view

                  Sun 8 July 2012 pictures by Kogs1 - Photobucket

                  In the above pic it is the same one I used but was an old pic where I had left out 2 jumpers I had included the jumpers in the cuit under test
                  @ Larry
                  There is only one pot in my circuit in the photo at the bottom there are 2 blue wires they go to each side of the 50k pot the brown one goes to the wiper.
                  The green wire at the bottom is running under the board to connected to the earth bus that runs along at the top of the picture along the underside where all the earths are it connects to the regulator earth.
                  At the left the red wire comes from the regulator and the brown wire goes to the input of the Mosfets.

                  Larry If I leave this oscillator out of the Machine and remove the coil and large Diodes from the circuit and replace the CLF with an 36v bulb then connect the output from the regulator direct to the input of the mosfets the 36v bulb lights up bright
                  As I tried to explain to you before... if you connected the you circuit the way you explained here (of course I don't know if by the input of the FET you mean the gate or the drain), you should not have gotten the light to light. You need something to turn on the FET. The input of the FET is the drain and the output of the FET is the source. If you did hook it to the gate, did you try to disconnect it to see if it would turn off the bulb. You should be able to turn the bulb off and on by connecting and disconnecting the regulator. Try this and let me know.

                  Please Larry in your circuit LM339 /4 comparitor it shows R5 as 38k the only resistors I can get here are 38k3 would these be OK
                  Yes that resistor would work... the original resistor was 45K.

                  @ Thugugly
                  The pic above is my circuit exactly except it does not show two blue jumpers though they were in the circuit when tested . The copper wires are woven through the board to each component and where there is a line where you do not see the wire as it would connect with/crossover the other wire it actually runs under the board I have tried 3 different 555 timers

                  I do appreciate Your help
                  Regards

                  Regards
                  Larry

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by thugugly View Post
                    ....
                    4. Hooked up coil, and puff, I lost my dc/dc converter, on the high side, at least it got very hot, I shut it down and had to leave, so I'm not sure what has happened yet.
                    Hi Thug,
                    I am so sorry you smoked silicon because of my circuit being still under contruction. Thanks for daring to pioneer! As Larry mentioned some protection diodes might be necessary. I plan to investigate this matter by measuring the voltage spikes on all terminals with 12V and a resistor and coil in series as load. Tender approach is a MUST if you love your circuit.
                    @ALL: Some know how regarding increased gate resistance:
                    A gate can be driven via a higher gate resistance at low frequency and low load - only. The restrictions above are to be obeyed! Why?
                    Different from transistors our FETs make use of the whole silicon chip if full opened only (full conductive DS-channel). Below full conduction - the usable conduction channel is being tied up by the electric field of the gate (imagine a flexible hourglass being choked at the constriction area). We get a higher resistance and additionally the increased heat losses focus an the choked area only. We obsereve a multiple positive feedback! Different from transistors the conductive channel increases its resistance at increased temperature. (Different from transistors FETs are happy if operating in parallel!)
                    If we drive the rated DS current (IDS) and higher frequencies the FET will give smoke signs of pain! The silicon will be punched by molten areas.
                    Usual FETs are not built for analog operation. Special makes are available for this task where special precautons are made in order to dissipate the heat generated inside.

                    We learn that for initial testing with low stress in our circuit higher gate resitstance might be helpful in order to detect problematic behaviour but later on the switching action shall be as fast as possible.
                    The small gate resistance serves for dampening resonant oscillations between gate capacitance and inductance of the wire. Those oscillations will give poor switching property because the FET shows multiple transitions while oscillating from on to off state -> RF disturbance, losses!.
                    You should know that FETs are extremely fast semiconductors. Their limit in switching originates from the gate capacity and the aibility to pump electrons there to in order to generate the electric field. There are circuits out there where quite normal FETs show switching speeds in the picosecond range! This explains their inclination for HF oscillations.

                    Sorry, for complexity. If we leave proved and dead safe areas some conditions start to become essential!


                    Summed up: The low side switch seems to be proved and can be built by others but not the high side switch.
                    Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

                    Comment


                    • For all you brave pioneers in opto matters:
                      Corrected circuit for high side drivers:
                      • DC/DC converter -> pin 1/2 now correct
                      • Protection diodes added -> D1/2 shall be of of low capacitance type . Normal 1N4007 will do for lower frequencies.


                      @Larry: What was your idea of inserting protecting diodes?

                      ADVICE: Please start with low stress on your circuit: voltage, load, duty cycle, frequency. Increase stress conforming your expertise you learned from operating your circuit.
                      Last edited by JohnStone; 07-08-2012, 11:10 PM.
                      Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

                      Comment


                      • JohnStone

                        Hi John
                        Do you have a secret source for the DC-DC converters. Everywhere I check has no stock or 25 min. order. Maybe a cross ref #???
                        Dana
                        "Today's scientist have substituted mathematics for experiments and they wander off through equation after equation and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality."
                        Nikola Tesla

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JohnStone View Post
                          For all you brave pioneers in opto matters:
                          Corrected circuit for high side drivers:
                          • DC/DC converter -> pin 1/2 now correct
                          • Protection diodes added -> D1/2 shall be of of low capacitance type . Normal 1N4007 will do for lower frequencies.


                          @Larry: What was your idea of inserting protecting diodes?
                          External diode parallel with FET internal diode. Suggested earlier by someone else and I read in a couple of other places that it is a good idea as the internal one is barely sufficient. If you have cut the drain pin off your FET then it will be difficult to install.

                          [COLOR="Red"]ADVICE: Please start with low stress on your circuit: voltage, load, duty cycle, frequency. Increase stress conforming your expertise you learned from operating your circuit.
                          Regards
                          Larry
                          Last edited by larryross; 07-09-2012, 05:10 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by larryross View Post
                            As I tried to explain to you before... if you connected the you circuit the way you explained here (of course I don't know if by the input of the FET you mean the gate or the drain), you should not have gotten the light to light. You need something to turn on the FET. The input of the FET is the drain and the output of the FET is the source. If you did hook it to the gate, did you try to disconnect it to see if it would turn off the bulb. You should be able to turn the bulb off and on by connecting and disconnecting the regulator. Try this and let me know.



                            Larry
                            G'Day Larry

                            When I say I connected the output from the Oscillator or the output from the Regulator I presume I am connecting to the input of the mosfet circuit when I connect to the Mosfet circuit Gate Bus
                            I actually connected to the Mosfet circuit Gate bus, when I connect the Oscillator this way No Light ON when I By pass the Oscillator by connecting the Regulator to the Mosfet circuit Gate Bus the the light comes on Bright and when I disconnect it goes Off so I am the Regulator and the Mosfet circuits are working

                            I have purchased of Ebay on of these

                            Square Wave Signal Generate Generator Module * Frequency / Duty Ratio Adjustable | eBay
                            it will probably take a week or 2 to get here then when I connect it Up everything will work fine or perhaps

                            Regards



                            Still working at it

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by prochiro View Post
                              ... source for the DC-DC converters....
                              In Europe we have a big ditributor Conrad - Ihr Online Shop für Elektronik, Computer, Multimedia, Modellbau & Technik. They sell DC/DC-converters from TRACO, TDK Lambda, HN-Power, RECOM.
                              Other manufacturer: Aimtec

                              You need to know that you get two kind of DC/DC convertes:
                              1. no isolation in/out = 3 pin
                              2. isolation in/out minimum 4 pin

                              We need the types of second item with minimum 1000V isolation capability.
                              I used RECOM.

                              There are other sources for bare PCB type (open frame / no case around). @Larry: you got such a simple bare bone DC/DC converter. Do they sell what we need here?

                              Every region all over the world sells components differently. So there is no general source. @all: please contribute sources for UK, US, AU ..... I don't know where you all sit in our global village and contribute.
                              rgds John
                              Last edited by JohnStone; 07-09-2012, 12:02 PM.
                              Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by iankoglin View Post
                                Nice module!
                                1.
                                Please note that they use the CMOS type of 555 timer. The output is source/sink about 8mA (not 200mA like NMOS type). No problem so far but you need to account for that.

                                2.
                                Can you share the schematic? My schematic posted originates from a bought kit as well.
                                Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

                                Comment

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