My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy

[GChilders]

lm7805 problem revisited

@ JS
This line in your tutorial on page 76 post 2275 is what I am trying to solve with the board. I have found the problem with the jumper and solved it on one board only. The second board has this problem, see below, when the jumper is installed.

"3.
Connect GND of your meter to GND on connector X8 and let it sit there for rest of test procedure. You will move the active probe only.
Measure input voltage at connector X8 and check if it is still around the value you measured before in idle mode.
If you read some few volts or less you have a short circuit. Switch off instantly and check."

The voltage at the input is drawn down on the entire board from about 18 volts to 3.88 volts. Not just at the lm7805. But along all of the 12 volt circuit from the input to the diode the lm7812 and the 7805. No matter where I test it is the same when the jumper between the 7812 and the MIC4452YN is installed in the circuit on this board only. After removal the voltage readings return to a normal reading. In test number 3 I would consider this to be low voltage in these readings. This would indicate a short but since it only occurs when the jumper is installed it leads me to believe that the short is in the 7805, am I correct in assuming this? Or is there another explanation?

These regulators only cost about 60 cents each, I will order some more. It hardly seems worth the fuss.

Cheers

Garry

[GChilders]

voltage fluctuations

@JS
I have been thinking about these voltage fluctuations and am thinking that this may be because of the sampling method of the multi-meters that I am using. I have two multi-meters that are true rms. One is an Ideal model 61-360 and the other is a klein MM1000. The led seems to come on strong and solid with no fluctuation in the intensity of the light and then switches off. I am going to continue populating this board as I now believe that this is probably normal behavior. If I am in error I can change the resistors later.

I hope everything is well with your family, I wish all of you the best in the upcoming holiday seasons.

Cheers

Garry

[ewizard]

I beg your understanding for my interruption here. I am working on an idea with this motor for free energy but I am very lacking in basic motor knowledge at this point - especially on bigger motors like this. While this is not directly related to the work here I am hoping UFOPolitics (who I believe said he is part Italian and this is apparently an Italian made motor) may have some light to shed on this problem. Or anyone else who might have an answer to a probably stupid simple question. I just got this motor and my first thought was to turn the shaft. I can't turn it by hand. I tried very very gently with a large crescent wrench against the key on the shaft but it won't turn.

I was told this motor was pulled from a 'working environment' but it looks like it is new and still has plastic plugs in the electrical box where you would have conduit coming in. I need to find out soon if it really has a problem (eBay fleabay deal). It's a 3 phase motor so I don't have a way to quickly hook it up and wouldn't want to do that anyway if the motor is frozen. Do these type motors have some sort of shaft stop installed to prevent it from turning before installation? If it's frozen due to a problem what is the most likely problem causing this? Thank you for any help on this!

[ewizard]

And one more clue that this has not been used: inside the electrical box was Italian directions for wiring and a sealed bag of small terminal parts (jumpers and nuts).

I do have information on how to wire this for my purpose though so I don't need interpretation on the Italian wiring text. My first plan is to wire it by the Rotoverter method so it can run on single phase input voltage.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Ewizard

I beg your understanding for my interruption here. I am working on an idea with this motor for free energy but I am very lacking in basic motor knowledge at this point - especially on bigger motors like this. While this is not directly related to the work here I am hoping UFOPolitics (who I believe said he is part Italian and this is apparently an Italian made motor) may have some light to shed on this problem. Or anyone else who might have an answer to a probably stupid simple question. I just got this motor and my first thought was to turn the shaft. I can't turn it by hand. I tried very very gently with a large crescent wrench against the key on the shaft but it won't turn.

I was told this motor was pulled from a 'working environment' but it looks like it is new and still has plastic plugs in the electrical box where you would have conduit coming in. I need to find out soon if it really has a problem (eBay fleabay deal). It's a 3 phase motor so I don't have a way to quickly hook it up and wouldn't want to do that anyway if the motor is frozen. Do these type motors have some sort of shaft stop installed to prevent it from turning before installation? If it's frozen due to a problem what is the most likely problem causing this? Thank you for any help on this!

Hello Ewizard,

Nice to see you around!, as You always be welcome here anytime...


Now it seems that this Motor is a "Servo Ventilati" Motor...which means it could have a fan that is geared to shaft...as it also reads "Auto frenanti" that means automatically braking...

In the indications please read on the Third line...

Autoventilati Autofrenanti senza Alimentatore...That means this Motor has a breaking capability when it is not being fed.

Senza= Without
Alimentatore= Being Energized, Fed...


It could help if you take it apart, basically the rear shiny cap...in order to see if there are gears or fan that is stuck.

On the first line it just shows that Coils could be wired to be a Delta or a "Y" WYE Configuration...

Even though, Ewizard...I see some small surface rust right at shaft near bearing...so I would try a bit of penetrating oil there as well...

If there are gears within Motor...or a Solenoid Type Braking Mechanism when power is not applied...shaft will not turn


Hope this helps you


Warm Regards


Ufopolitics

[ewizard]

Thank you so much kind sir!

I think you are exactly right about it having a brake. After I wrote the last message I pulled off the end piece covering the fan and it does indeed look like there could be some sort of brake setup between the fan and the motor. I will probably pull that apart soon. Motor says 1.1KW which I think would be about 1.5 HP (guessing but I believe that sounds right). Price was $20 but shipping was double that but still I think a fairly good deal (if it runs ) I'll add some oil by the bearings too...

[ewizard]

Just a quick confirmation - that was indeed the only thing keeping it from turning. I pulled the brake off the end and it now turns freely. Thanks again!

[GChilders]

ic sockets

@JS
John take a look at this site for ic sockets when you have a minute.

IC Sockets

This site seems to offer high quality sockets for a reasonable price. Let me know if you think these would be overkill. Some can handle up to 3 amps of current. Also Amazon offers ic sockets and screw terminals. I was thinking of ordering screw terminals for K1 K2 K3 and K8. Seems like it would be easier to test and change parts out with screw terminals. I did not use sockets on these two boards because there were none listed in the BOM and so I had not ordered any. Because I wanted to move ahead with building the first two for my goldmine motors I proceeded without them. I did not think replacing parts would be of issue, Lower voltage, small motor etc.. That was probably a mistake because it is much easier to swap out parts that are bad or become bad after a period of time with sockets installed. On the next four boards I definitely want to use sockets. I am wondering what quality that you think are necessary. They do have some with gold inserts for about .25 to 1.00 American each. the zinc plated are much less from .04 to .15 depending on the number of pins although these are rated at 1 amp. They also have some very expensive gold insert wire wrapped sockets at .80 to 2.90 each. I am not sure of the advantage of the wire wrap. Both gold terminal types are rated at 3 amps.

No hurry I will continue with the first two boards without the sockets. I appreciate your advice, when it comes to the electronics you are the master and I am your humble student. Thank you for all the help you have given us here not only to me personally but to all on the forum. These boards only seem hard to solder because everything is very close to everything else. Your tutorials broke it down into very manageable pieces. The Testing procedure seemed a little bit difficult to me because the header pins are so close together. I thought that the screw terminals or this ic socket might work more easily. I use alligator clips to permanently connect a multi-meter and other components such as an led, power source etc. to a pin. There are probably better methods but these are what I had at hand. The screw terminal would eliminate the need for alligator clips which I had difficulty managing to get between pins without shorting out. The temporary solution that I came up with was to sacrifice a breadboard and use jumpers with the pins bent at 90 degrees to bring the wires out. Then I would slip the breadboard pieces over the pins on k1 and k8 and this gave me up to four jumpers for each pin. So the breadboard piece for k1 was 6 sockets wide with the typical 5 sockets deep all connected together, the one for k8 was 4 sockets wide and 5 sockets deep This made it much easier to test by connecting the alligator clips to the jumpers. Necessity being the mother of invention and all.

Anyway hope you understand that this is a first for me. I have always plugged in the electronic circuits that someone else created. Never built them myself. Very interesting though and I wish I knew more about troubleshooting these circuits. All of my experience has been in troubleshooting automotive circuits and that goes back to a time before computer modules took over the market. I hope that I am not overloading your schedule with my novice questions. Curious minds must know.

Cheers

Garry

[Cornboy 555]

Hello Garry, i too come from a background in working on old automotive electrics, and fitting and machining.

At first, dealing with this tiny stuff, was daunting, i got a large illuminated magnifing lamp, and that helped a lot.

I believe sockets are the way to go, you can heat them up to solder properly, without any fear of damaging any components.

These tiny little fiddly bits don't like being hot!!

I use the macnined sockets that are on that link Garry, and it makes changing components a breeze, for fast troubleshooting.

Hope you are succesfull with the drivers, i am looking forward to you pulsing your motors.

Regards Cornboy.

[GChilders]

sockets

@cornBoy
Thanks for the reply cornboy. I thought that these were the choice that I would make also. Price is reasonable and I think 3 amps is probably sufficient. Did you use sockets for all of the ic's? What about the cool mosfets? I think everyone that has had them burn out had them soldered in permanently with extra heavy wires. I do not know the amperage on that circuit but I imagine it is greater than 3 amps. Do you know the amperage the mosfets are pulling down? What have you come up with for testing the sections to connect to those tiny pins on k1 k2 k3 k8 with only .1 inch space between centers? Wow talk about tight spacing!

Cheers

Garry

[Cornboy 555]

@cornBoy
Thanks for the reply cornboy. I thought that these were the choice that I would make also. Price is reasonable and I think 3 amps is probably sufficient. Did you use sockets for all of the ic's? What about the cool mosfets? I think everyone that has had them burn out had them soldered in permanently with extra heavy wires. I do not know the amperage on that circuit but I imagine it is greater than 3 amps. Do you know the amperage the mosfets are pulling down? What have you come up with for testing the sections to connect to those tiny pins on k1 k2 k3 k8 with only .1 inch space between centers? Wow talk about tight spacing!

Cheers

Garry

Hey Garry, yeah i used sockets for all IC's, not Fets.

Fets pass large amps, in small burst's, 10-100amp, as you will see.

Have you got our Mr John Stone's driver download?, it is available from UFO's website, ufopolitics.com , it clearly shows, the 100 amp paths to build.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Some pics of what i did, the brass screws are 3/16", and i fitted 3 100v neons, in series, across the screws, to show when the lady is becoming overzelous and ready to take out your Fets.

Even using 12v with this driver, if you don't have an escape path for her magisty, those neons will light up. It's a great safety check.

Hope this helps,

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[JohnStone]

Hi Garry, Cornboy,
sorry or delayed answer. There are some days I can not switch on my PC and if I do sometimes DSL line is broken.
Now i will try to anser some issues:

@Cornboy:
I am proud of your work!!! You understood what I tought and you did it! @ALL: Cornboy and I talked before and agreed to populate those FETs on top side. But for serious cooling FETs shall be populated at bottom side in order to get serious heat sinks mounted.

@Garry:
Sockets:
The best quality of IC sockets are those with machined and gold plated round contacts. I agree with the advice of Cornboy. Those in your link I do not like because you can damage them easily. But for our lab tests any of them are OK. We will talk of premium quality if we have our flying machines running an intercontinetal jurney I refer to Cornboy's garlic delivery service!
Garry, do not worry of amps! The 14 pin IC will take some mA and the FET driver will shoot high amps for very short time - no time left for generating any heat.
And NO do not buy wire wrap

Connectors:
Do not try to buy screw terminals for 1/10". They will be rare and not easy to by. Most screw termnals are 3.5mm or 5.08mm - no fit to this PCB.
But you can solder short wires at bottom side and connect there what you want.
And thre are female sockets available for these terminals as well, where ypu can solder your wires.

Fluctatuions:
I doubt your both meters cause those readings themselves. I understand you have one PCB being well and other with fluctuations.
If you cut those pink tracks for test, then you have regulators without any load. Then you need to have stable values at meter.

Please note the view is from top and shown like PCB were transparent.
If you bridge the gaps you cut 12V or 5V you will find out where you have your short circuit.
There is no other procedure in order to find that dead short at your PCB.
Later on you may bridge the gap cut with solder or you solder a wire on top of the copper track.

GND connection:
what I tried to say in my totorial is that the very input circuit to opto is placed at K1 and you wil use pins 2...6. You will measure there for testing input circuitry connected to frequncy generator.

K1/Pin 1 connected with circuit GND is there for convenience of testing only. You should NOT use it at input circuit.
All circuitry after opto you will measure referred to K8/GND - for all further measurements.


Garry, it might help if you post some pics of your PCBs. We might find some irregularities. I feel with you and admire your courage jumpiong into matters. You will be successful in the end!!!
JS

[GChilders]

Monster drives

@John Stone
John I made some short videos of the test procedure on the two boards and
sent the links to my dropbox in a pm, no need to take time from anyone else. Hope this clarifies what the problem is.

cheers

Garry

[GChilders]

@ cornboy555 , prochiro
I sent both of you a pm with the links to the videos that I made in hopes that someone might spot something wrong with my test method or construction of the monster drive. If you have time to view them I would greatly appreciate any input that you might have.

cheers

Garry

[Cornboy 555]

Hey Garry, sorry you are having problems with your drivers, watched your vids, thanks, i will have to revisit my driver that i built, (i still have to build 8 more ), and do some measurements for you.

Am extremley busy right now sorry, will respond when i can.

Just some small things:
1. Do yourself a favour and lose as many loose jumper wires as you can, ie. use hard wire and solder in your 3 jumpers.
2. i don't like using small batteries like your 9 v's. I use 2x 12v 7a sla's in series, for 24v imput to monster, so as to eliminate the power supply as a possible problem, and be more than what is needed, to test for extended periods.

Talk to you soon, Cornboy.