3 Battery Generating System

[Turion]

...Which is why I have been so interested in the designs of UFO that appear to be most efficient while still generating extra energy. I had some great success running one on the 3BGS system for several days. However, Matt has come up with a motor design we have been trying and recent events have allowed us to use a standard off the shelf DC motor, so we will continue to investigate how we can get the most power out of a brushed PM DC motor. Research, research, research.

[JJUK]

Hi Dave,

I had a modicum of success for an hour or so before the dead battery started to charge. I was running a PM DC motor in series and a brushless PC fan in parallel with the dead battery. How are you preventing the dead battery from charging now?

JJUK

[Turion]

JJUK,
When we KNOW we have a long term solution and have taken the proper steps, we'll be glad to share. ....Just like we promised. Until then, everyone has the opportunity to figure it out for themselves.

Dave

[boguslaw]

If you think more about how current interacts with battery then you will know how to replace dead battery with capacitor. Dead battery is a dead path imho Turion I think you can figure it out. Your idea about higher state running to lower state is a very correct one and strictly related....

[Turion]

boguslaw,
Unfortunately, we have never been able to get a cap to work in the third position, though I invite folks to TRY. It would be an easy replacement for a bad battery. For some reason the chemistry of the bad battery or its reaction to voltage and amperage or pulses or SOMETHING is what makes this thing work. Or at least that has been my observation. I have tried with many, MANY different caps. If someone can get it to work with a cap, I will bow down and acknowledge them as the master and I sincerely MEAN that. I have NO EGO when it comes to this thing. It is just a search for truth and the answers we are all looking for.

Dave

[Turion]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. So how much is video worth??

3BGS - YouTube

I don't quite have this setup tuned yet. My tuner is inside the piece of pvc pipe that has two wires coming out of it, and the wires are attached to battery 3.

I started my first run at 12.58 volts and 12.48 volts on my batteries. I finished at...............................12.68........and 12.52 on the primaries. YOu can see how the high voltage pulses from the motor make the meter jump all over the place, but the numbers continue to go UP.
I ran the motor for about 20 minutes at 300 rpm. I need 1100 rpm to turn our Lenz free generator, so gearing is necessary, or an additional battery or two or three to get the voltage up.

Battery three held steady for a while, but then started climbing. Matt had his hold steady for 16 hours, so we know HOW to do it...just got to play with it. I've got to order some more equipment to take some measurements I can't take right now in order to tune things, so for me it's a hit and miss process still. But we'll get there. And when we do, we will share.

YOU should be working on this guys. I keep telling you that, but nobody wants to listen. The answers are all here. All you have to do is look for them.

Dave

[mbrownn]

boguslaw,
Unfortunately, we have never been able to get a cap to work in the third position, though I invite folks to TRY. It would be an easy replacement for a bad battery. For some reason the chemistry of the bad battery or its reaction to voltage and amperage or pulses or SOMETHING is what makes this thing work. Or at least that has been my observation. I have tried with many, MANY different caps. If someone can get it to work with a cap, I will bow down and acknowledge them as the master and I sincerely MEAN that. I have NO EGO when it comes to this thing. It is just a search for truth and the answers we are all looking for.

Dave

A thought on the cap problem, A cap has a very low impedance when it is discharged moving to a high impedance when charged. A battery has a very high impedance when in the dead state moving to a low impedance when charging and going back to high when fully charged. I think this is the reason for the failure with caps.

Normally we could replace the cap with an inductor to get this high impedance but I think it would have to be a big inductor. The other problem for the inductor is the DC supply as the current will charge the inductor lowering impedance just like the battery charging.

Can we combine the two? have an inductor either in series or parallel with the cap. In series would provide the impedance when needed with the cap providing the impedance at higher charges. The load should be placed across the cap/inductor pair. The load is therefore a low impedance pathway for the current where the cap/inductor pair is high impedance but with capacitance.

With just a quick look at this, the cap/inductor pair could possibly mimic a dead battery but we would need to choose their values carefully.

It could also be a cap, inductor, cap triplet.

[Matthew Jones]

A thought on the cap problem, A cap has a very low impedance when it is discharged moving to a high impedance when charged. A battery has a very high impedance when in the dead state moving to a low impedance when charging and going back to high when fully charged. I think this is the reason for the failure with caps.

Normally we could replace the cap with an inductor to get this high impedance but I think it would have to be a big inductor. The other problem for the inductor is the DC supply as the current will charge the inductor lowering impedance just like the battery charging.

Can we combine the two? have an inductor either in series or parallel with the cap. In series would provide the impedance when needed with the cap providing the impedance at higher charges. The load should be placed across the cap/inductor pair. The load is therefore a low impedance pathway for the current where the cap/inductor pair is high impedance but with capacitance.

With just a quick look at this, the cap/inductor pair could possibly mimic a dead battery but we would need to choose their values carefully.

It could also be a cap, inductor, cap triplet.

Didn't you just see what David posted? A cap and an inductor will not work either. You must flip the polarity of the current and send it back to the primaries.

NO CONVENTIONAL COMBINATION WILL DO THIS WHILE THE POWER FLOWS ON ONE WIRE !!!!! ERRRR!!!!

TRAPPED IN BOX, WITH NO WAY OUT!!!!

I sure would like to see video or pictures from people who try every once in while instead of this endless speculation.

UNHAPPY AND DEFINITELY NOT READY TO SHARE !!!

[Turion]

I guess I'll have to get my scope out and make a movie... Cause no one gets it. I gotta find a camera somewhere..

The motor Steps the voltage up. About 150% of what ever the current potential difference is. IE 12 volt of difference shows 15 to 18 volt coming out of the motor Also the motor seems to add some current to the system at the point the brush engages the coil.

This hits the dead battery and FOR SOME REASON. The battery kicks out the opposite potential. IE the 18 volt that went in the dead battery come out of the Negative pole as -15 to -18 volt.
This voltage than now has a negative potential, more charge, and can charge the primaries. This process take a bit time and when you look at it you rarely have both positive and negative potential on the Battery at the same time. It loads up one side and then dumps the other side.. More on that in second.

You can watch this happen. You watch the current flow all the way around the system. And you can clearly see all the changing potentials.

So inevitably we should be able to put a load (Inverter) on Battery 3 and do more work while stile maintaining or charging the primary battery. That was Davids original experience anyway.

This becomes possible when you start to look at battery 3 behavior. Now we get to point when you either have 0 volt (-pole) and 15 volt (+pole) that then will shift to -15 (-pole) and 0 volt (+pole). Does the caps in the inverter care? No. the cap just charges based on the potential difference.

But as the caps charge they force new polarity onto the existing energy and the transformer runs the voltage up. So now you have this situation that no matter where the Cap gets the power from, the system runs it through, get the work done and deposits the low voltage end of it back onto the opposite pole which at any given time could be exactly where that power needs to go to be retained.
Mind you this part is theory I have not been able to witness it happening. But I have set up the very same thing in a Tesla Switch several times.

I wish people who have the ability to look would look at this with a scope, and note the behavior I have listed. Its very easy to see with few small modification to the system. If the entire thing were witnessed then maybe we could figure away around the dead battery. Or not.

Matt

We don't just THINK this is what's happening, we KNOW it's what's happening. Yes, a couple things are an educated guess, but not a lot of it. You can see it with a scope. We've put scopes on it and diodes to control direction of flow. YOU can do the same.

This is NOT going to get solved by folks sitting around talking about it. It is going to get solved by someone with a running system trying different things to make it work. We have a working solution right now, but that doesn't mean it's the BEST solution. If you had read this thread from front to back as many times as I have you would notice that SEVERAL TIMES Matt got setups up and running that were exhibiting the kind of behavior we wanted....we just never got it consistently. We're getting REAL consistent now, and we think we know WHY, but that remains to be seen. A really long run of a couple weeks is necessary to prove that, and we need to be running the generator as a load, so that is what I'm working on right now.

We need MORE people building this and reporting on what you see. When was the last time somebody besides me posted a video here? Look back and see. I do.....all the time. You share your ammunition with the guy fighting in the trenches beside you, not with the guy sitting behind a desk back at camp.
Dave

[JJUK]

We don't just THINK this is what's happening, we KNOW it's what's happening. Yes, a couple things are an educated guess, but not a lot of it. You can see it with a scope. We've put scopes on it and diodes to control direction of flow. YOU can do the same.

This is NOT going to get solved by folks sitting around talking about it. It is going to get solved by someone with a running system trying different things to make it work. We have a working solution right now, but that doesn't mean it's the BEST solution. If you had read this thread from front to back as many times as I have you would notice that SEVERAL TIMES Matt got setups up and running that were exhibiting the kind of behavior we wanted....we just never got it consistently. We're getting REAL consistent now, and we think we know WHY, but that remains to be seen. A really long run of a couple weeks is necessary to prove that, and we need to be running the generator as a load, so that is what I'm working on right now.

We need MORE people building this and reporting on what you see. When was the last time somebody besides me posted a video here? Look back and see. I do.....all the time. You share your ammunition with the guy fighting in the trenches beside you, not with the guy sitting behind a desk back at camp.
Dave

Glad to hear you're having success Dave and Matt. I suspect that I'm not the only one trying to follow your lead in a practical sense. However, I am some way behind you at the moment so it's likely to take a while to work through the permutations and combinations to arrive at anything close to a stable solution. As you say, your way may not be the only way and there are any number of blind alleys to avoid.

Comments like "When we KNOW we have a long term solution and have taken the proper steps, we'll be glad to share. ....Just like we promised. Until then, everyone has the opportunity to figure it out for themselves" are not particularly encouraging though! Remember that the two of you are working on this together and have been for a number of years. If you want others to join in, you need to continue to communicate. If not then others may feel less inclined to do so themselves.

Having seen for myself (if only briefly) what I believe to be the phenomenon you describe, I will continue pressing on to see what more I can learn. When I have something useful to add then I will post. In the meantime, if you are able to answer questions when they are posed then that would be very much appreciated.

I’m now off to pull apart a UPS!

JJUK

[Matthew Jones]

If you can get your hands on a Razor scooter motor or 2, 2 good batteries and a Dead AGM battery. Take a picture or something I'll be happy to give you the recipe. And thats just a starting point...

The problem with people posting without showing any attempt, is discouraging. We can spend a week putting everything together for replications and no one will go get what they need. They'll just continue to speculate.

Matt

[Turion]

JJUK,
I brought this to the forum so we could all work together on COLLABORATIVE effort to find the answer. But look at the number of folks actively posting here, look at the number actually SHOWING they have anything up and running besides their mouth, and you will see why we are hesitant to share. We were not and HAVE not been seeing a "collaborative effort." For a little while we had a bunch of folks trying, and we were sharing everything. But as fewer and fewer folks continued to participate, we began to share less and less. Who is contributing anything in the way of actual results from working setups that they are experimenting with and showing us ANY kind of proof that they have something running? And are they using the correct stuff in their setups so we can make sure they will get the same results we are getting? There are any NUMBER of people on these forums spouting disinformation and trying to derail or discourage active successful projects. When I first brought this to Overunity.com over five years ago, NOBODY who replicated my setup (supposedly) got any good results, so I began to doubt myself, and eventually just put this on the shelf and forgot about it, taking it out once in a while to see if I could get it to work. It wasn't until Luther contacted me by email and told me that he knew I was right, and we began working on this together that I started to get some good results. Mostly that was because I was five years older and knew a lot more about circuits and batteries by this point. But it was also because I had someone to share with and bounce ideas off of.

Yesterday I did a run with a standard Razor scooter motor. I didn't get good results. I replaced only the motor with the motor Matt designed, recharged the batteries to full again, and ran the exact same test. I had the same connections, same length of wires, same everything except the motor. And it worked like a charm. I ran it for a few hours, replaced the batteries with a fresh pair of charged batteries to see if the results could be repeated, and they were. I switched back to the first motor late last night with fresh batteries again, and it didn't work. So my system is fairly well tuned to one motor, but not to the other. But will it run for 6 months or a year. I don't know until I run it for 6 months or a year. Some folks have had theirs run for two days. Some for two weeks. Mine ran a month the first time. Our current WORKING setup might run 4 weeks and quit. We need to be doing looooooooooong test runs with multiple setups, and that takes time and money to build, OR it takes several people with the SAME setup each doing a different length of test run.

Matt was able to run his with a modified Razor Scooter motor and then switch to an off the shelf treadmill motor and get great results off of both. We are trying to standardize things and figure out how to adjust the system so that it will work no matter what. This is potentially a multibillion dollar concept, and folks just want us to hand it over for free when they haven't even shown us they have spent the time and effort to replicate with the parts we've told them we're using with success? Probably not gonna happen. We DO want this to get out there. We do NOT want this to go the way of so many free energy devices of the past and get buried (along with US). But chances are it may NOT get posted here on the forum for a while.

We want to file a provisional patent on this, so sharing with the masses just ain't-a-gonna happen for a while. We have kinda been putting together a little team of folks who are actively working on this thing, and sharing results off site. How do you think we decided on who to invite into that little group? Do you think it might possibly have been folks who were ACTIVELY working on this thing and showing us results....sending us e-mails, links to videos of their setups, etc.? Communicating to a small group of researchers does not constitute disclosure in the public domain. We can do that. So this isn't going to go away, and I have friends and family who know what I'm up to who have enough info to replicate, so it will NOT just disappear.

You can get a new MY1016 Razor scooter motor for $39.00. You can buy one on eBay for anywhere from $16-$30. I have bought 10 of them this way.
Other than that, you need two good 12 volt batteries (18 amp hour or better) and a bad AGM battery of any size as long as it is 12 volt. Three volt meters would be nice so you don't have to move them around. I bought a bunch of meters for $5.00 each. You'll need a battery charger to charge your batteries, and it is nice to have a couple extra batteries so you can work with two while two are charging up. You will also need some wire and test leads to connect stuff up. A lot of folks have this stuff already. Some might have to buy it. That costs money. I know things are tight for folks. They are for me too. I haven't worked in three years now, but that also means I have the time to spend on this. It is my FULL TIME job, and my wife supports me about 2,000 % because she has seen the results and understands the potential. I only mention the fact that I am unemployed to let you know I don't accept "lack of money" as an excuse. If this is important to you, you will find a way. I do. I'm not asking folks for money and wouldn't accept it if offered.

So this is real. There's no doubt about that in my mind or I wouldn't be spending money I don't have on this stuff. Just yesterday Matt told me I needed to order a specific kind of meter and another part which I shall not name here. The meter is ordered already. I still need to talk to Matt about the other part so I can get it ordered from where he found it. I will spend the money it takes to make this thing happen. I will spend the $5,000 to begin the process to file the provisional patent. And THEN we will dump everything here for all of you to build your own.

But understand, if we share everything on a public forum, it could affect our ability to get a provisional patent, and we can't afford to let that happen. That is one of the reasons my first post here included the Creative Commons License at the bottom. We just aren't going to do that .....yet.

Dave

[JJUK]

I had been trying to get results with kit I've got lying about but I can understand why you want an exact replication and so I'm happy to go with that. I've got my eye on a used MY1016. With any luck that'll be with me next week. As for the dead battery, I'm having a bit of difficulty there. The UPS that I dismantled yesterday looked to be a perfect donor. One battery was taking a charge and the other had a voltage across the terminals but wouldn't take a charge. I thought I'd run it down to make sure it was completely dead but in the process managed to revive it. I took video of most of the process as it was pretty interesting. I used a 12V PC fan to run the battery down but instead of the voltage reducing, it actually rose whilst the fan was spinning. After some time I attempted charging it again and it worked. It now appears to have taken a full charge. I'm very pleased to be able to recommision the UPS but slightly disgruntled by the fact that I am still without a dead battery. The search goes on...

[minoly]

JJUK,
I brought this to the forum so we could all work together on COLLABORATIVE effort to find the answer. But look at the number of folks actively posting here, look at the number actually SHOWING they have anything up and running besides their mouth, and you will see why we are hesitant to share. We were not and HAVE not been seeing a "collaborative effort." For a little while we had a bunch of folks trying, and we were sharing everything. But as fewer and fewer folks continued to participate, we began to share less and less. Who is contributing anything in the way of actual results from working setups that they are experimenting with and showing us ANY kind of proof that they have something running? And are they using the correct stuff in their setups so we can make sure they will get the same results we are getting? There are any NUMBER of people on these forums spouting disinformation and trying to derail or discourage active successful projects. When I first brought this to Overunity.com over five years ago, NOBODY who replicated my setup (supposedly) got any good results, so I began to doubt myself, and eventually just put this on the shelf and forgot about it, taking it out once in a while to see if I could get it to work. It wasn't until Luther contacted me by email and told me that he knew I was right, and we began working on this together that I started to get some good results. Mostly that was because I was five years older and knew a lot more about circuits and batteries by this point. But it was also because I had someone to share with and bounce ideas off of.

Yesterday I did a run with a standard Razor scooter motor. I didn't get good results. I replaced only the motor with the motor Matt designed, recharged the batteries to full again, and ran the exact same test. I had the same connections, same length of wires, same everything except the motor. And it worked like a charm. I ran it for a few hours, replaced the batteries with a fresh pair of charged batteries to see if the results could be repeated, and they were. I switched back to the first motor late last night with fresh batteries again, and it didn't work. So my system is fairly well tuned to one motor, but not to the other. But will it run for 6 months or a year. I don't know until I run it for 6 months or a year. Some folks have had theirs run for two days. Some for two weeks. Mine ran a month the first time. Our current WORKING setup might run 4 weeks and quit. We need to be doing looooooooooong test runs with multiple setups, and that takes time and money to build, OR it takes several people with the SAME setup each doing a different length of test run.

Matt was able to run his with a modified Razor Scooter motor and then switch to an off the shelf treadmill motor and get great results off of both. We are trying to standardize things and figure out how to adjust the system so that it will work no matter what. This is potentially a multibillion dollar concept, and folks just want us to hand it over for free when they haven't even shown us they have spent the time and effort to replicate with the parts we've told them we're using with success? Probably not gonna happen. We DO want this to get out there. We do NOT want this to go the way of so many free energy devices of the past and get buried (along with US). But chances are it may NOT get posted here on the forum for a while.

We want to file a provisional patent on this, so sharing with the masses just ain't-a-gonna happen for a while. We have kinda been putting together a little team of folks who are actively working on this thing, and sharing results off site. How do you think we decided on who to invite into that little group? Do you think it might possibly have been folks who were ACTIVELY working on this thing and showing us results....sending us e-mails, links to videos of their setups, etc.? Communicating to a small group of researchers does not constitute disclosure in the public domain. We can do that. So this isn't going to go away, and I have friends and family who know what I'm up to who have enough info to replicate, so it will NOT just disappear.

You can get a new MY1016 Razor scooter motor for $39.00. You can buy one on eBay for anywhere from $16-$30. I have bought 10 of them this way.
Other than that, you need two good 12 volt batteries (18 amp hour or better) and a bad AGM battery of any size as long as it is 12 volt. Three volt meters would be nice so you don't have to move them around. I bought a bunch of meters for $5.00 each. You'll need a battery charger to charge your batteries, and it is nice to have a couple extra batteries so you can work with two while two are charging up. You will also need some wire and test leads to connect stuff up. A lot of folks have this stuff already. Some might have to buy it. That costs money. I know things are tight for folks. They are for me too. I haven't worked in three years now, but that also means I have the time to spend on this. It is my FULL TIME job, and my wife supports me about 2,000 % because she has seen the results and understands the potential. I only mention the fact that I am unemployed to let you know I don't accept "lack of money" as an excuse. If this is important to you, you will find a way. I do. I'm not asking folks for money and wouldn't accept it if offered.

So this is real. There's no doubt about that in my mind or I wouldn't be spending money I don't have on this stuff. Just yesterday Matt told me I needed to order a specific kind of meter and another part which I shall not name here. The meter is ordered already. I still need to talk to Matt about the other part so I can get it ordered from where he found it. I will spend the money it takes to make this thing happen. I will spend the $5,000 to begin the process to file the provisional patent. And THEN we will dump everything here for all of you to build your own.

But understand, if we share everything on a public forum, it could affect our ability to get a provisional patent, and we can't afford to let that happen. That is one of the reasons my first post here included the Creative Commons License at the bottom. We just aren't going to do that .....yet.

Dave

Dave,
from what I'm reading and seeing from you as well as my own attempts, I'm a believer. Do you have a website I missed someplace? Link me up and put a little donation tab. The earth and it's worthy inhabitants need this out there.
Kind regards,
Patrick

[Turion]

minoly,
No web site other than this one. We aren't looking for donations. We want a working prototype of this thing so we can get a provisional patent, and then go after research money from venture capitalists to really do it right.

JJUK,
I don't know how many "bad batteries" that others have thrown away I have restored to better than perfect health using this setup. Even ones I couldn't restore with my monopole 5. So it does have its advantages, but it can also make me really angry because I WANT bad batteries that can't be fixed. LOL

Dave