3 Battery Generating System

[Matthew Jones]

No one knows for sure that sulfation has anything to do with anything. But if you want the Dead battery you have now to get to that form you can just charge it again then discharge it fully. Let it sit a couple of days shorted out, then do it again.
4-5 times or so should be all you get and at that point its highly sulfated. As such you may or may not start seeing results.

Matt

[ehsanco1062]

A few places that have bad batteries:
Medical supply - Wheelchairs, IV pumps, most medical monitoring devices
Computer Supply - UPSes
Home Security System Supplier - Yep, 7Ah in those things.
Walmart - Ask what you can do about getting rid of your old Tyco kid car battery. They will then tell you where to find those SLAs.
Scooter Dealers - nuff said
Dental suppliers - More medical devices that use those SLAs.
Data Centers - Use a ton (literally) of these batteries.

While most of these places get regular pickup of their bad batteries, if you talk nice to them, they will supply you with the bad batteries you need for free or a nominal charge. Like Dave, I get mine for free.
Good Luck,
Randy

Thank you Randy I will try to look in these places and mean while I will continue reading and follow the thread and I will even experiment with the bad battery I made ,but what I understand from you and from our experiments to make bad battery is that the magic is in the sulfating not only with a low voltage of the battery so even if I find a battery with a low voltage then it should be full of sulfating in order to be consider as a good dead battery other wise It will not work in the 3BGS.
But do you mean that any SLAs will work because I thought that only SLA AGM battery will work is that right ?

Thank you again
Ehsan

[MonsieurM]

Hehe, You just keep getting closer and closer.

Randy

Thank you

a page that many ignored

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...onization.html .... On the Dissipation of the Electrical Energy of the Hertz Resonator from The Electrical Engineer, December 21st, 1892

http://i.imgur.com/AtLpn.png

title of image:

Division of electric light with the aid of Condensers

a similar design / idea can be found here : Palmer Craig: Hall Effect Device (Battery, rectifier, amplifier)

The bismuth-based ceramic dielectrics have excellent electrical resistivity greater than 1014 ohm-cm

The device is called an "electromagnetic detector and amplifier" and consists of a series of bismuth plates stacked in a pile and interlaced with copper wires. The bismuth plates are protected by a coating of sulfur because bismuth, a very brittle substance, is likely to crumble

For the bifilar pancake coil. Do you mean literally the coil is under one of the transducer batteries?
Brian

ps: sorry for the repeat



wonder if you replace copper oxide with a bismuth ( powder / liquid with sulfur maybe ) , it would work as well

sort of Epsom salt battery turned into Bismuth battery

( the spiral inside the battery can be seen as a mini bifilar pancake )

A New Oxide Of Copper Battery

By MM. F. DE LALANDE and G. CHAPERON.

We have succeeded in forming a new battery with a single liquid and with a solid depolarizing element by associating oxide of copper, caustic potash, and zinc.

This battery possesses remarkable properties. Depolarizing electrodes are easily formed of oxide of copper. It is enough to keep it in contact with a plate or a cell of iron or copper constituting the positive pole of the element.

Fig. 1 represents a very simple arrangement. At the bottom of a glass jar, V, we place a box of sheet iron, A, containing oxide of copper, B. To this box is attached a copper wire insulated from the zinc by a piece of India rubber tube. The zinc is formed of a thick wire of this metal coiled in the form of a flat spiral, D, and suspended from a cover, E, which carries a terminal, F, connected with the zinc; an India-rubber tube, G, covers the zinc at the place where it dips into the liquid, to prevent its being eaten away at this level.

The jar is filled with a solution containing 30 or 40 per cent. of potash. This arrangement is similar to that of a Callaud element, with this difference - that the depolarizing element is solid and insoluble.


Read more: A New Oxide Of Copper Battery

[tachyoncatcher]

Closer

if properly adapted .... it looks like an oscillator within an oscillator

Hehe, You just keep getting closer and closer.

Randy

[MonsieurM]

just wanted to bring the following to your attention :

Stainless steel and Epsom salt Rechargeable Battery --Boxed - YouTube


Same "composition" :

Sulfate

Oscillations

"plates" ( stainless steel )

For the bifilar pancake coil. Do you mean literally the coil is under one of the transducer batteries?
Brian

if properly adapted .... it looks like an oscillator within an oscillator

[tachyoncatcher]

Her in Sweden I couldn't find battery scrap piles so my only chance to keep one experimenting on the 3BGS or 5BGS is to make bad battery no to find bad battery because it seems to me impossible .

A few places that have bad batteries:
Medical supply - Wheelchairs, IV pumps, most medical monitoring devices
Computer Supply - UPSes
Home Security System Supplier - Yep, 7Ah in those things.
Walmart - Ask what you can do about getting rid of your old Tyco kid car battery. They will then tell you where to find those SLAs.
Scooter Dealers - nuff said
Dental suppliers - More medical devices that use those SLAs.
Data Centers - Use a ton (literally) of these batteries.

While most of these places get regular pickup of their bad batteries, if you talk nice to them, they will supply you with the bad batteries you need for free or a nominal charge. Like Dave, I get mine for free.
Good Luck,
Randy

[Turion]

Ehsan,

The bad batteries I made by flipping the polarity aren't working well. I am losing voltage on the primaries. But I am still able to get some long run times with them. The best bad batteries are, as Randy said, old ones that show low voltage. I go to a "Batteries +" store here and get as many of them as I want, all reading 4 volts or less. Finding bad batteries has always been the problem with this system.

I hope Luther will post here soon. One of the things we have noticed using BIG motors is that the setup is more forgiving. He has a BIG motor setup he is going to start running, and maybe he will give us some data on what he sees with the larger 12 volt motors. I want to do it to, but am really busy right now.

Dave

[ehsanco1062]

You are using a different manufactured motor than us, take it apart and see if there is any caps, diodes, or control circuitry and remove them. Depending on the impedance of your transducers, you should be able to get voltages up to 24v. As I said before, if your impedance is low on your transducers, you will have trouble. Try a cap rated over 24v between the two transducers. If your voltage climbs over 12.5, then your impedance is too low. I have never had success using new/good batteries as transducers, even converted ones. But, others have reported otherwise. I use old, dead, sulfate bloated, batteries for my transducers. My best transducers give me a voltage at the buffer of ~19v if unloaded. Personally, I go to the battery scrap piles and look for 7Ah sealed batteries with less than 4v. If it is swelled from the sulfate, bonus!

So are mine.

If you think it, it is probably a good test. You will find the bouncier your meters, the better. Use the motor direction that causes the most bounce on your meters.

Keep up the good work,
Randy

I took my motor a part and I didn't find any diode or cap or any control circuitry and even with the cap between the transducer won't go above 12.40 and change the motor connection to the primary with no noticeable change .
Her in Sweden I couldn't find battery scrap piles so my only chance to keep one experimenting on the 3BGS or 5BGS is to make bad battery no to find bad battery because it seems to me impossible .

Dave I know you are busy but I wander if You can tell me weather the bad battery you made is working good or not because as Randy said it seems that my transducer batteries has low impedance and that want be good to use as a bad battery.

Thank you all in advance

Ehsan

[tachyoncatcher]

Hi Randy,

No matter what I did I can never get mor than 12.50v on the buffer battery how can you get 13.8 to 14.3 is it because I am using 120w motor and maybe you are using bigger motor or what ?

You are using a different manufactured motor than us, take it apart and see if there is any caps, diodes, or control circuitry and remove them. Depending on the impedance of your transducers, you should be able to get voltages up to 24v. As I said before, if your impedance is low on your transducers, you will have trouble. Try a cap rated over 24v between the two transducers. If your voltage climbs over 12.5, then your impedance is too low. I have never had success using new/good batteries as transducers, even converted ones. But, others have reported otherwise. I use old, dead, sulfate bloated, batteries for my transducers. My best transducers give me a voltage at the buffer of ~19v if unloaded. Personally, I go to the battery scrap piles and look for 7Ah sealed batteries with less than 4v. If it is swelled from the sulfate, bonus!

My batteries are all 7.2 Ah

So are mine.

I am using the red wire of the motor on the positive of the primary maybe I should put the black wire of the motor on the positive of the primary and see what difference that make .
Ehsan

If you think it, it is probably a good test. You will find the bouncier your meters, the better. Use the motor direction that causes the most bounce on your meters.

Keep up the good work,
Randy

[ehsanco1062]

I have had the best results with 13.8 to 14.3. Anything outside of that drains my primaries.

Good Luck,
Randy

Hi Randy,

No matter what I did I can never get mor than 12.50v on the buffer battery how can you get 13.8 to 14.3 is it because I am using 120w motor and maybe you are using bigger motor or what ?
My batteries are all 7.2 Ah and I am using the red wire of the motor on the positive of the primary maybe I should put the black wire of the motor on the positive of the primary and see what difference that make .
I am still losing voltage on the primaries but very slowly .

Good luck all
Ehsan

[tachyoncatcher]

I would like to replace the 7W 12V bulb with a feed back to the primaries.
Question 1: Could a Joule Thief be helpfull to step up the 9.5V DC to a level to load the batteries, probably pulsing them with 50V?

Other idea is to change the chain transmission from 1:1 now to 3:1, running the generator 3 times faster than the motor and produce 25V DC for positiv feedback.

Question 2: Will I need diodes to prevent possible backflow?

Regards
cubalibre

cubalibre,
Sounds like some great tests to conduct. I like the idea of a Joule Thief in place of the Tesla Bifilar Coil . Remember, when you increase the load on the motor ( 1:1 to 3:1 ) you will have to increase the load on the buffer to balance. You must be careful of the placement of your diodes. They can kill the harmonics from the motor and between the transducers and buffer. The transient AC is very important.
Good Luck,
Randy

[ehsanco1062]

Ehsan, We all live in a sea of magnetic flux. This flux is like the eddys of a river. For each of us the direction is different due to geographic influences. I place my two transducers together like this [|] , then I rotate them together, while watching for best voltage to the primary on the negative side (it does make a difference) while testing a run. You only have to do it once to find the optimum position. Yes Duncan, like aiming an antenna.
Good Luck,
Randy

Thank you Randy I really appreciate your help ,now I got it . I have all the time to do many runs per day but I don't have the place to do it so the only way to do run is when there is no one at home and that is rear but I am doing my best to do mor tests and get more observation and get mor experience about the system because each time I do test I find some thing I didn't noticed it before .
Mor runs to do .

Ehsan

[tachyoncatcher]

Thank you Randy ,that was really help but I think that you have mention or some one else that we should direct the transducers batteries towards the north or some thing like that and that was not understood to ,me how can I do that ?
Thank you again

Ehsan

Ehsan, We all live in a sea of magnetic flux. This flux is like the eddys of a river. For each of us the direction is different due to geographic influences. I place my two transducers together like this [|] , then I rotate them together, while watching for best voltage to the primary on the negative side (it does make a difference) while testing a run. You only have to do it once to find the optimum position. Yes Duncan, like aiming an antenna.
Good Luck,
Randy

[ehsanco1062]

We all equals in this endeavor.

I have done both with equal success. When applying a physical load on the motor, I use a second motor coupled to it with 12v bulbs on the output of the 2nd motor/generator. I use a old, wire wound, 100k rheostat in parallel with one of the bulbs to fine tune the load. I have not figured out how to loop that power back to the primaries so I consider this loss. I am currently running my motor without a physical load and balance my buffer load going for primary charging and long runs.

I have had the best results with 13.8 to 14.3. Anything outside of that drains my primaries.

Sure! I lay the coil flat on the bench, then I set my 2 transducers on top of it.


Congratulations Ehsan!!! You are learning by doing and observing. Thought is merely the precursor to possibilities. Doing, is the forming of those possibilities into a successful outcome. Failures are more important than the successes as they are more apt to give us definitive knowledge than success. Therefore, we never really fail, we just learn the better path. Doers are awesome! Way to go Ehsan and the other builders in this thread!!!

Good Luck,
Randy

Thank you Randy ,that was really help but I think that you have mention or some one else that we should direct the transducers batteries towards the north or some thing like that and that was not understood to ,me how can I do that ?
Thank you again

Ehsan

[cubalibre]

Feed back with Joule Thief ?

Hi

There was only a little time left to run my 5BGS.
The buffer is going down slowly with 28W bulb on the inverter.
The buffer is going up slowly with 25W bulb on the inverter.
Until now, my primaries are going down slowly.
The load on the generator is a 7W 12V bulb, the generator produces 9.5V then.

I would like to replace the 7W 12V bulb with a feed back to the primaries.
Question 1: Could a Joule Thief be helpfull to step up the 9.5V DC to a level to load the batteries, probably pulsing them with 50V?

Other idea is to change the chain transmission from 1:1 now to 3:1, running the generator 3 times faster than the motor and produce 25V DC for positiv feedback.

Question 2: Will I need diodes to prevent possible backflow?

Regards
cubalibre