3 Battery Generating System

[zapzap]

A solution to "making" a really dead appearing battery?

I recalled coming across this tidbit and hope it is of use. From here:http://www.theorionproject.org/en/documents/Gary_V.pdf

On page 44:

There's one other little thing. At that same International Tesla Conference in Colorado Springs, the folks who were in charge (for the energy barons) of suppressing all successful over-unity devices in the Western world were also there when Watson demonstrated his 8-kilowatt device. There is a certain effect which happens in a battery sometimes for a large over-unity battery popper unit like that, if the device is "for real". Time-reversal operations and wave transductions can occur, resulting in time-excitation charging inside the battery materials, in a negative time charge sense (remember, the over-unity operation is a negentropic operation). After a machine of that type and with that particular internal effects has been used to furnish energy for quite a while, you can make a definitive test on it. Simply hook it to a normal battery charger for that size battery, and start to charge it. You then may find to your surprise that the power will just seem to "disappear" in that battery, without charging the needle one iota, for 16 to 48 hours or longer, and in a rare case for two weeks.

Here comes the explanation:

The reason is that wave transduction occurs of your charging spatial energy into time-energy, and so you have to furnish rather enormous energy to get a little bit of that negative-time charge reversed. After you fill that seemingly "bottomless pit", then suddenly the negative time-charge will have been eliminated, and at that point the battery will start to charge up in quite normal fashion.

[Turion]

citfta,
I KNOW it can be incredibly frustrating trying to find a bad battery that will work with this setup. I buy "bad" batteries (AGM) from Batteries+ for $5.00 per battery. So I have dumped a butt load of money into searching for the perfect battery. And I have found MANY batteries that work in this setup...some much longer than others. Sooner or later we will figure this thing out, and it will be worth it. And you are right in that once you have SEEN it with your own eyes, it's pretty hard to forget. I'm just glad I'm not the ONLY one who has seen it. For a long time I was, and I know folks thought I was a crack-pot. But you never get anywhere if you don't stick your neck out and move forward.

zapzap,
That was interesting stuff. I'm not sure which battery to test that on. The primaries seem to charge ok on a standard charger, and we don't WANT to charge battery 3, but I will for sure keep that in the back of my mind as I work on this thing.

Dave

[shylo]

The Dead Battery

I think the dead battery holds memeory, after extended use ,it retains that memory...??
But if you can innterupt the flow , you can intterupt the memory..
There by staying in the zone?
How do you charge batteries?
Can you pulse them with caps?
Sorry lot's of q shylo

[Turion]

The first requirement of the bad battery is that it does not let the motor start when you hook it up. The battery definitely has some kind of memory, because any battery that did not let the motor start immediately but eventually lets it start will now let the motor start immediately any time during the next 24 hours, no matter how you load it down and try to drain it or discharge it, including shorting directly across it. However, after about 24 hours of rest with NO LOAD or WITH A LOAD, you can hook that battery up and the motor will not start immediately. So what kind of "memory" is this? It isn't voltage, because you can drain and/or short out the battery. I believe it is some kind of magnetic change that takes place, but I'm no battery expert.

I charge my batteries with a standard charger. I need to get my monopole 5 up and running, but it seems like I never have the time.

Dave

[Michaeltorres]

Greetings all,
Over four years ago I stumbled upon something by accident.

THE STORY:
We assembled a circuit similar to one first posted by John Bedini some years ago. It called for two charged batteries, one discharged battery and a load. I chose to use a 12 volt DC motor as the load. We had a battery that would neither take, nor hold a charge, and decided to use it for our third battery. When we initially put the system together and threw the switch, nothing happened. About ten to fifteen minutes later the motor suddenly started up. The voltage on the bad battery would suddenly jump to 24 volts. It would go down to about 18 volts, and then the motor would slowly start and begin to run, speeding up gradually. The voltage would continue to drop down to around nine volts, at which time the motor would suddenly shut off and the voltage would immediately jump back to 24 volts and the cycle would repeat.

To try and get the system to keep from shutting off, I ASSUMED I needed to keep the battery in the third position from becoming charged, so I began to hook loads to it. I used an inverter and powered all kinds of loads, balancing the load on battery three by putting an additional load on the motor. To make a long story short, it did amazing things. Then it quit, or I killed it by taking it apart and putting it back together with the motor wires switched, which I have since discovered, is CRITICAL.

I posted a whole bunch of stuff at OU at the time (David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device)

Recently, I have been trying to replicate this and MANY PEOPLE have had success. Hence this post.

CAUTION: You build AT YOUR OWN RISK. This system uses lead acid batteries which can EXPLODE. Take all proper precautions.

CONSTRUCTION OF THE DEVICE:
Take a brushed DC motor and connect one wire to the negative of battery 1. Connect the positive of battery 1 to the negative of battery 2. Connect the positive of battery 2 to the positive of battery 3. Connect the negative of battery 3 to the other wire on the motor. The motor is now connected between the negatives of two batteries.

REQUIREMENTS:
1. Battery 3 should be a "bad" battery. One that doesn't want to hold more than 4 to 6 volts.
2. Battery 3 must ba a battery that WILL NOT ALLOW THE MOTOR TO START WHEN FIRST CONNECTED.
3. Battery 3 MUST be an AGM battery
4. You need a LOAD ON THE MOTOR for this to work
5. A PULSE motor works better than a standard motor, but a standard motor WILL work.
6. Switching the connections on the motor will produce better results in one direction of motor rotation over the other.

PROCESS:
FOLLOW THESE STEPS EXACTLY OR DON’T BOTHER ASKING FOR HELP!
1. Connect up the setup
2. When you flip the switch the very first time, the motor SHOULD NOT START immediately. (If it does, you do not have a battery that will work in the third position so DON'T WASTE your 3. In a few minutes the motor will start running. If the motor hasn’t started within 24 hours, this battery will not work in the third position BUT is perfect for our battery modification experiments.
4. If, however, you can spin the motor by hand and the system begins to work, you can use this battery.

If you have an analogue meter on battery 3, you should see the voltage jump (when the switch is thrown) to 24+ volts. It will go slowly down to around 18 volts, and THEN the motor will start. The voltage will go down to around 12 or 13 volts, and stabilize. IF the voltage continues to go down to around 9 volts, and the motor shuts off, the voltage jumps back up to 24 volts and the cycle repeats, you probably have the perfect battery.

This experiment is to make sure you have the RIGHT kind of battery. At this point you need to stop and let your primary batteries sit and rest overnight, recharging them if they don't recover. You also need to drain battery three by connecting a light to it and leaving it overnight.

AFTER DOING ALL THAT AND LETTING THE SYSTEM REST OVERNIGHT, reconnect everything. Flip the switch to start the system and you will find that this time the motor starts IMMEDIATELY. Shut it off, add a small load like an auto dome light or even an auto headlight...something to keep battery three from charging. I only had you start it so you could ponder the following.

So…..if the delay in starting you saw yesterday were because of a difference in potential between the set of two batteries in series and the single battery, when could that potential possibly be GREATER than when you have just charged the two main batteries while at the same time, discharging the bad battery all night long with a bulb on it?

If the delay was because there was not enough juice in the bad battery, how could there possibly be LESS juice than there is right now, when you have drained the bad battery ALL NIGHT LONG. It should have NO juice. None. So you should be having to put some juice into the battery for the motor to start. It should take LONGER to start than it did yesterday, and yet the motor started immediately.

It is my belief that we are talking about some kind of magnetic alignment that takes place in a bad battery and continues as long as there is a load on the battery, and also lasts for a couple days after the load is removed. If you can let it sit for a couple days, hook it back into the system, flip the switch, and once again the motor will NOT start immediately.

Once you have the two batteries fully charged, the bad battery drained, and a small load connected between the terminals on battery 3, you are ready for the experimenting to really begin.

You must MATCH the load on the motor with a load on battery 3.
UNTIL THE LOADS ARE MATCHED YOU ARE DRAINING THE PRIMARIES. I use a bunch of small bulbs with switches to connect each one to battery three. Flip a switch to turn on one of these lights and the motor will immediately speed up. Let it run for five minutes. If the loads are matched, the motor will suddenly speed up AGAIN. When you are in this "zone", the speed and torque will be awesome. You can continue to add loads to battery three, but add a load, wait five minutes, add a load, wait five minutes. At some point the load will cause the motor to drop out of the "zone" Now you have two choices. Reduce the load on battery 3, or INCREASE the load on the motor to get it back in the zone.

We are NOT trying to build a device that will charge battery #3. We know we can do that....or use a Bedini charger which is probably more efficient, although a little more complicated.

We are, at a minimum, trying to get the use of the motor without the draw down on the primary batteries. This would involve the use of the energy produced by the motor to recharge those batteries.

But MORE than that. My original device ran loads off battery three that could not POSSIBLY have been run by the energy produced by the motor if it is only EQUAL to that provided to the motor by batteries one and two. It is my belief that battery three opens a "gate" to energy that comes in to charge the battery and as long as we put loads on battery three to PREVENT it from becoming charged, we get a WHOLE LOT of that energy.

If we balance the load on battery three and the load on the motor, there is NO drawdown on batteries one and two. BUT just because you load down battery three doesn’t mean it hasn’t reached a state where it wants to charge up. When that happens, the setup quits working, so it is NOT just a matter of putting loads on battery 3. Even with a perfectly balanced setup, this happens eventually with every battery 3 we have tried. WE need to understand what it takes to replicate my original or find a replacement. THAT IS OUR GOAL HERE.

Good Luck!
Dave Bowling

Nice to hear your story and your experience is surely helpful for others. Keep the good work going man

[GlenWV]

Update...

Greetings:

Well, I went back and read, copied, pasted most of the previous postings and will print off a booklet for home. Reading through from the beginning is giving me a better handle on what is going on.

I did two long runs last weekend. The first was from Friday evening until Sunday evening. The motor ran until the B2 bank had a zero output reading on a meter. M1 was still turning M2, but very slowly. Friday night, the output from M2 was connected to a 6700AH 12vdc battery bank. This was loading M1 too much, so I disconnected it Saturday morning.

When M1 began to turn, it ran at about 450 rpm. After connecting a load across B3(bad), the rpms increased to a bit over 1100. Loading M2 down brought the rpms back down. I never did get B1 or B2 to stabalize or charge.

I charged the source batteries Sunday night and did another run on Monday. This time, I didn't load down M2. Same results.

My B2 bank has a really bad battery in it, so I need to change it out. That'll get done this weekend. (I fooled around and broke my old 12 volt BSA headlamp bulb, so I gotta come up with something else.)

I gotta get some 12 volt stuff! (Amazes me how little of that I have.)
_________________________________________
In the earlier posts, I see that some folks are using a pcb that Matt designed. Does anyone have a spare that they'd care to sell or swap?

My browser settings were preventing me from seeing attachments/links on Matt's posts. Got that figured out, so all is well.

Also, am watching for a good motor candidate to rewind.
More runs this weekend - both original setup and multi-bad battery jobbers.

Keep chugging folks...

glen

[zapzap]

A "Negative resistor" battery maker:

zapzap,
That was interesting stuff. I'm not sure which battery to test that on. The primaries seem to charge ok on a standard charger, and we don't WANT to charge battery 3, but I will for sure keep that in the back of my mind as I work on this thing. Dave

Doesn’t this sound exactly like your holy grail? “…In other words, there are processes available in the battery that allow -- under very precise conditions -- parts of the battery to perform as negative resistors.” From here: The Tom Bearden Website

There is much there, but one more tidbit: “One of John's battery-powered electrical motors, e.g., ran continuously off its battery for about five years, and kept the battery charged. When you realize that such a small electric motor is only about 35% efficient, then you realize that about 65% of the energy flowing out of the battery was being dissipated in the motor as heat, core losses, etc. So the unit was continuously performing work for that five years. The 1/8 hp motor represented a load in which the continuous rate of work being done (the rate of energy dissipation) was about 0. 08 hp. The little device was a battery-popper, and we have already covered the theory of such units in the treatise above.”

Recapping, you seem to be looking for a battery (or parts of it) that performs and continues to perform as a negative resistor. Mr. Bedini has repeatedly made successful “battery poppers” according to that link. Battery poppers can make properly conditioned batteries that act as “negative resistors. Doesn’t it make sense to ask Mr. Bedini to sell at least one properly conditioned battery to see if it meets your criteria? If so you’re third battery issue is resolved?

Or is there some other reason to avoid Mr. Bedini's battery conversion process I should be aware of?

[tachyoncatcher]

Balanced

@zapzap,
the Bedini system you reference was a carefully, balanced system. JB has stated, he was careful to "tune" that system so as not to overcharge the battery. This was a system with a consistent load. The 3BGS is a little more complex in that it has an additional component with the 3rd battery/translator and a varying load. When working, as the load changes, the translator provides the need. I like to think of the translator as a sort of buffer. When the load changes, the system can be out-of-balance, but it is not proportionate to the load placed on it. The 3rd battery/translator adds additional power. The trick has been two fold. Balancing the system for the new load, and keeping the translator from repairing itself. Balancing has been done by adding/subtracting physical load on the pulse motor.

Conditioned batteries are best for the primaries as they accept radiant better than conventional (unconditioned) batteries. This makes the balancing act less critical. Anyone with a Bedini can condition their batteries with repeated drain/charge cycles. I use only "popped" charged batteries for my primaries.
Randy

[Turion]

zapzap,
I've substituted everything I can think of for battery three (except my dog, and she ran when she saw those alligator clips), including batteries that were conditioned on a Monopole 3, and they don't give me the same effect as the proper bad battery. But you're welcome to try and pursue that avenue of investigation.

Dave

[JJUK]

Battery 3 Voltage

Hi Dave,

With your original fully operational setup, did you make a record of the voltage reading for battery 3 when it was operating in the 'zone'? Shame that the meter failed when you were running the UFO motor that you captured on video...

Also, do you know the history of the original battery 3? Specifically, do you know if it became bad through an extended period of discharge and neglect or whether it was damaged by excessive current during a charge?

JJUK

[Turion]

JJUK,
The meter didn't fail during that video. If you will notice, I had the leads plugged into the opposite ports on the meter. In other words, positive was plugged in where neg goes and neg was plugged in where pos goes. I just THOUGHT it was not working. Someone who saw the video pointed this out to me, and I confirmed it by watching the video.

On my original setup the voltage would jump to 24 and then go slowly down to 9 volts where it shut off. As long as I kept it from getting down to 9 volts (which means only a 3 volt potential difference, which is why the motor shut off) it would work.

Dave

[zapzap]

Shakespeare: The negative resistor's the thing, wherein I'll catch radiant energy...

Opps, well he kind of did. Please let's focus on the practical aspect for a moment.

Q. Can Bedini (if he wishes) produce a battery with with negative resistance aspects?

A. According to the quoted articles, YES.

Q. Is Mr. Bedini willing to sell, lease, loan, donate, such a battery for Turien's experiment?

A. Someone who can intelligently describe this experiment might ask him.

Why? Because at here it says: http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/Bedini.pdf: He has built many units which exhibited the overunity effect by creating and using a negative resistor in the battery, and some which also exhibited the self-powering effect. And who knows, he might explain in somewhat plain English other methodologies to let the Genie out of the battery?

And J.B. must have at least one special really dead-appearing battery under a bench somewhere?

I understand the replies tendered and appreciate them, I simply don't understand the reluctance of someone asking on a proper forum (assuming perhaps this one isn't). You see, the articles are clear that any ol' popped battery won't necessarily work, here are 2 quotes:
There is a certain effect which happens in a battery sometimes...

…there are processes available in the battery that allow -- under very precise conditions -- parts of the battery to perform as negative resistors.

By his own admission Turion has tried almost every battery under the sun (joking) so why the negative resistance to giving a Bedini "special" popped battery a shot?

And yes, when I come across one of those batteries, obviously, I will give it a shot. Do I believe it's the only shot? No, it is mentioned that others got such effects by other means (Bill Nelson, who shared the concept with Bedini/Bearden). Best wishes, I will quietly look into this further.

[JJUK]

Battery Death

Sorry Dave, I added this question to my post in an edit so you may not have picked up on it:

Also, do you know the history of the original battery 3? Specifically, do you know if it became bad through an extended period of discharge and neglect or whether it was damaged by excessive current during a charge?

JJUK

[Turion]

zapzap,
I brought this whole thing to JB's forum, and he made but one brief comment. I will post there and ask him if he has such a formula. It is truly the geni in the bottle, so the chances that it will just be given away are slim to none, but you are correct. It can't hurt to ask.

JJUK, I did see that part of the post. I didn't answer it because I simply forgot. LOL. Anyway, the battery in question was just one that was sitting around on the shelf with a bunch of other parts from previous years of building robotics. We thought it was a good battery until it didn't hold the charge.

If you think about it, the events of my first run of my original tell us a lot about that battery.
1. It would take a charge....evidence...the voltage on battery three would jump to 24 volts and then go slowly down to 18, at which point the motor would come on (we have seen this happen hundreds of times trying to replicate)

2. It wouldn't hold a charge....evidence...When the motor shut off, the voltage on battery 3 would JUMP to 24 again (from down around 9 volts) and the sequence would start over. It was acting almost like a cap, in that the instant the motor shut off, the battery would DUMP all its stored voltage and leap to that 24 volts in potential difference immediately. (We have NOT SEEN THIS happen with any batteries in our replication attempts that I know of)

3. BUT ALSO INTERESTING TO ME
When connected, the voltage on the battery would jump to 24 volts....it would go slowly down to 18, at which point the motor would start, and then it would go slowly down to around 8 or 9 volts. The motor would shut off and it would jump back up.

A. Why did the motor shut off when batt 3 got down to 9 volts?
B. Why do batteries that I try NOW level off at 12 or 13 and NEVER go down to 9?

No answers, just lots more questions.

Dave

[Matthew Jones]

@ZAPZAP
This is the only time I will chime in on this. This is not the same effect. I can at this moment go out and set my Ten Coiler up to do any number of things you spoke of. I have seen batteries that continue to stay charged from no where several times and I can show you at least 10 setups of various things that will do that. Including batteries that seemingly charge on there own.

This is not the same thing! I have explained several times exactly what is happening and I can watch it all on the scope. But to date with all the suggestion and all the talk no one has gone out to look and see if I was right or wrong and see if they find anything else.

But feel free to go get anybody or anything involved in this you want. But if ends up sidetracking anything, your to blame. And thats how it always seem to go in that camp. Endless mysteries...

This is not a mystery, and what I am finding through ALOT OF TESTING. Is almost all dead batteries contribute to this effect. Maybe not to the same extent but they all seem to run the same way. They flip the polarity of the current that resides on the wire as a dipole.

But go play with your toys, I want to solve this without any of that, and I know its not needed.

Matt