3 Battery Generating System

[Turion]

Still no yes or no answer

It was a simple yes or no question. What is the answer.

Again you attempt to baffle with BS instead of answering the simple question.

Let me ask you once again. Is the amp draw of the motor turning a rotor with magnets on it higher when coils with iron cores are in place as compared to when no coils are in place? You avoided answering that question.

YES or NO?

[bistander]

Cogging again

bi,

None of what you mentioned is relevant.
Is the amp draw of the motor turning a rotor with magnets on it higher when coils with iron cores are in place as compared to when no coils are in place? You avoided answering that question. It’s a simple yes or no.

Turion,

It is precisely relevant. You were referring to cogging. Cogging has nothing to do with coils. Iron cores , yes. But cogging is not responsible for increased current draw in the motor driving the generator as the RPM is increased. That is due to core loss. Or as Mr. Potatohead said "braking torque due to Eddy currents and core loss."

There will be core loss anytime you have a changing magnetic field in a ferrous core. If you attempt to eliminate the changing magnetic field in the core then you are defeating the purpose of the core and in fact the purpose of the generator as a whole; that is to induce a changing magnetic flux thru the coil.

But whatever works for you. Like I said, details, so what? Show the proof of results. 2000W out / 300W in.

Regards,

bi

[Iamnuts]

Cadman says.

Cadman says “anyone can quote from text books” and I totally agree.
The weak link is that many can read the words but how many of them
really understand what those words infer?
If a pulse motor puts out more than it takes to run, it must be able to
self sustain. Has anyone ever seen a pulse motor running with no input?
One of the most famous attempts was the Steorn debacle, we all know
how that one ended!
One thing for sure is that if Turion attempts to take a patent there will
be one sure winner..........the patent attorney.
Ever thought about all the power systems in use? Do you think people
just have an idea and go ahead and build it? No, they have qualified engineers
who work it all out with their textbooks and believe it or not they use those
equations that so many on here consider to not hold water.
I find it saddening that a few here are investing their hard-earned dollars
and a lot of time, ruining good batteries to boot, just to build something
that’s totally unproven.
John.

[Turion]

Still no response

bi,

None of what you mentioned is relevant.
Is the amp draw of the motor turning a rotor with magnets on it higher when coils with iron cores are in place as compared to when no coils are in place? You avoided answering that question. It’s a simple yes or no.

[bistander]

Cogging again

bi,
I thought about it last night, and I just couldn’t let your misinformation slide.


And what YOU don’t seem to understand is that while the physical act of cogging “goes away” or is at least unobservable at load, instruments will STILL read an increased amp draw in the motor from having to turn the magnets on the rotor past the iron in the coil cores. Are you saying that this ALSO goes away “at load”? So at load there is no magnetic attraction of the magnets to the iron cores? Is THAT your belief? What I have observed, because I have actually BUILT and TESTED a large machine is that without coils present my motor has a specific amp draw when turning a rotor. When the coils are added and the rotor is turned at a low speed the scope shows spikes in the amp draw of the motor as the magnets on the rotor pass the iron cores. The faster the motor turns, the more these spikes level out until you reach a speed where there seem to be no spikes at all. But guess what, the amp draw on the motor is HIGHER than it was without the coils present. Are you saying it is not? If it IS, then what I have explained how to do is beneficial. If it is NOT, then I would agree that the magnetic neutralization is not necessary. So which is it? Is my scope reading wrong or is it YOU who are incorrect, since you say my magnetic neutralization is worthless?

Been there. Explained that.

Mr. Potato Head says that eliminating magnetic cogging happens at high speed, so magnetic neutralization is of NO importance. Has no value. Is as worthless as Mr. Potato Head.

Would your son like to do a simple experiment that ANY CHILD can do to prove him WRONG?

Run your motor turning a rotor with magnets on it at the top voltage for which it is rated. In other words, if it is a 24 volt motor, run it on 24 volts. Observe the amp draw on a meter. Now bring a nice FAT coil with a nice fat iron core into proximity of the rotor without even a load on it, and watch the amp draw on the motor go up.

Isn't the motor ALREADY running on the highest voltage for which it is rated? If so, how are you going to make it run any faster to get that "high speed" you need to eliminate magnetic cogging. If there is NO magnetic cogging taking place, why did the amp draw on the motor go up. Mr. Potatoe Head apparently has ALL the answers. He is the Mr. Wizard of free energy.

Stay tuned for the further adventures of Mr. Potato Head.

Turion,

Mr. Potato Head says such an experiment as you described would only demonstrate braking torque due to Eddy currents and core loss. You would need a sensitive torque transducer to actually see the cogging torque. If the drive motor isn't too noisy you might be able to see current ripple caused by cogging. But you knew that, right?

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

Serps

The dynalfux or the SERPS will always require energy input, it’s just that they need less energy and can create more power. You can even send back more power than you are using, however you can not send back more energy than you are using.

From:
Jim Murray ? Dynaflux & SERPS ? Gestalt Reality

Not sure I see the big deal. Energy storage devices or systems are used all the time for this. Batteries, capacitors, flywheels, etc.

bi

[Cadman]

You're right. I am not interested in building one. I want to build 500 million. But I need more than double talk from these guys. Proof please.

bi

Great! When Turion gets the patent be sure to tell us when you reach a licensing agreement with him. I'm sure serious offers will be considered, and proof offered for them at that time. Be sure to tell us when to expect it on the market.

[bistander]

Not one

Well, if you're not interested in building a complete system yourself then I guess that means you'll have to wait for the patent. Quit worrying about the claim. Get real, he isn't going to give everything away to anyone for free. On the other hand Turion & Matt have given out a lot of information for anyone to make use of. Information that is not worthless.

.

You're right. I am not interested in building one. I want to build 500 million. But I need more than double talk from these guys. Proof please. Otherwise it is just another like the hundreds of miracle machine blueprints I've seen come before. I said those didn't work. So far, I'm batting 1000. Actually I'd love Turion to break my streak.

bi

[bistander]

Words

PS. Are you going to argue semantics now?

No, I prefer not to. One of the reasons I hesitate to engage Aaron. But....

The first thing to get through your heads is the fact that electricity is not "consumed" when it powers the load

I never said or otherwise indicated I thought electricity was "consumed". Power, or energy, is converted or stored regardless of its form including electrical.

Regards,

bi

[Turion]

bi,
I thought about it last night, and I just couldn’t let your misinformation slide.

Turion,

Been through cogging with you. You don't get it. It is insignificant at load.

bi

And what YOU don’t seem to understand is that while the physical act of cogging “goes away” or is at least unobservable at load, instruments will STILL read an increased amp draw in the motor from having to turn the magnets on the rotor past the iron in the coil cores. Are you saying that this ALSO goes away “at load”? So at load there is no magnetic attraction of the magnets to the iron cores? Is THAT your belief? What I have observed, because I have actually BUILT and TESTED a large machine is that without coils present my motor has a specific amp draw when turning a rotor. When the coils are added and the rotor is turned at a low speed the scope shows spikes in the amp draw of the motor as the magnets on the rotor pass the iron cores. The faster the motor turns, the more these spikes level out until you reach a speed where there seem to be no spikes at all. But guess what, the amp draw on the motor is HIGHER than it was without the coils present. Are you saying it is not? If it IS, then what I have explained how to do is beneficial. If it is NOT, then I would agree that the magnetic neutralization is not necessary. So which is it? Is my scope reading wrong or is it YOU who are incorrect, since you say my magnetic neutralization is worthless?

[Cadman]

Counter-electromotive force (abbreviated counter EMF or simply CEMF),[1] also known as back electromotive force (or back EMF), is the electromotive force or "voltage" that opposes the change in current which induced it. CEMF is the EMF caused by magnetic induction (see Faraday's law of induction, electromagnetic induction, Lenz's Law).

For example, the voltage appearing across an inductor or "coil" is due to a change in current which causes a change in the magnetic field within the coil, and therefore the self-induced voltage.[1][2] The polarity of the voltage at every moment opposes that of the change in applied voltage to keep the current constant.[1][3]

The term back electromotive force is also commonly used to refer to the voltage that occurs in electric motors where there is relative motion between the armature and the magnetic field produced by the motor's field coils, thus also acting as a generator while running as a motor. This effect is not due to the motor's inductance but a separate phenomenon.

Anyone can quote textbooks. So what?
.

[Cadman]

Hi Cadman,

No, I do not want the details. I am really not interested where he puts a magnet or how he winds a coil. All I want is proof of his claim. 2000 watts out / 300 watts in. I have said previously, put it in a black box. Two ports. In and out. Instrument both ports. Demonstrate 2000 watts out while only 300 watts going in for long enough to rule out energy storage inside the box being responsible for any of the output. Simple.

Regards,

bi

Well, if you're not interested in building a complete system yourself then I guess that means you'll have to wait for the patent. Quit worrying about the claim. Get real, he isn't going to give everything away to anyone for free. On the other hand Turion & Matt have given out a lot of information for anyone to make use of. Information that is not worthless.

.

[Iamnuts]

Cemf.

Counter-electromotive force (abbreviated counter EMF or simply CEMF),[1] also known as back electromotive force (or back EMF), is the electromotive force or "voltage" that opposes the change in current which induced it. CEMF is the EMF caused by magnetic induction (see Faraday's law of induction, electromagnetic induction, Lenz's Law).

For example, the voltage appearing across an inductor or "coil" is due to a change in current which causes a change in the magnetic field within the coil, and therefore the self-induced voltage.[1][2] The polarity of the voltage at every moment opposes that of the change in applied voltage to keep the current constant.[1][3]

The term back electromotive force is also commonly used to refer to the voltage that occurs in electric motors where there is relative motion between the armature and the magnetic field produced by the motor's field coils, thus also acting as a generator while running as a motor. This effect is not due to the motor's inductance but a separate phenomenon.

[bistander]

No details

...
Bi, the only real complaint you have is that he refuses to hand all the details over to you. ...
Regards
Cadman

PS. Are you going to argue semantics now?

Hi Cadman,

No, I do not want the details. I am really not interested where he puts a magnet or how he winds a coil. All I want is proof of his claim. 2000 watts out / 300 watts in. I have said previously, put it in a black box. Two ports. In and out. Instrument both ports. Demonstrate 2000 watts out while only 300 watts going in for long enough to rule out energy storage inside the box being responsible for any of the output. Simple.

Regards,

bi

[Cadman]

Simplified

Maybe I can explain it in a way that Iamnuts & Bistander can comprehend. The working knowledge was discovered well over a century ago, and I am sure you know it.

Start with a single motor coil. Not a modern motor winding, a coil, a solenoid. You know full well that the electrical energy applied to any solenoid gets stored in the magnetic field of that coil. Breaking the input to the coil causes the magnetic field to collapse and the energy stored in the field is returned to the coil winding minus losses. This is indisputable.

That energy is what is returned to the storage batteries or reused for other purposes. The majority of it is recovered and reused, just as Turion has been saying about his 3 battery system all along. That is why the motor has to be pulsed, to recover the energy stored in the magnetic fields of the motor coils.
Several things affect the time it takes to build the magnetic field in those coils too.

The excess comes from a generator attached to that pulse motor and Turion has recently described the operational requirements of that generator and provided a video of how to construct a version of one. If you are as experienced and knowledgeable as you say, then you should have no trouble building one of these generators that doesn't overheat.

Bi, the only real complaint you have is that he refuses to hand all the details over to you. Trying to goad him into PROVING IT to you isn't going to make that happen. Put forth some real effort to build your own complete system. Or, when he gets it patented you can look at that.

Regards
Cadman

PS. Are you going to argue semantics now?