3 Battery Generating System

[citfta]

Very Dangerous Circuit

I had decided I wasn't going to post on this forum anymore because I was tired of arguing with the know-it-alls on here that don't want to learn anything. However when I saw this piece of crap battery charging circuit being posted again I had to respond.

There is already a thread about this type of battery charger on this forum. I posted there about the dangers of using it. As Matt has already pointed out it is dangerous to the batteries. It is also very dangerous to the user. Because there is no transformer in the circuit there is no isolation between the AC power and the leads going to the battery. With the bridge rectifier connected the way it is both the positive and negative leads are hot in reference to true ground. There is approximately 70 volts pulsing DC on both of the leads in reference to ground. And the cap does not limit the current enough to keep that 70 volts from killing you! DO NOT USE THIS CIRCUIT!

I know from past experience there will be several fools that will come on here now and tell me I don't know what I am talking about. I will not waste my time arguing with them. I am hoping the wise will recognize what I am saying and heed my advice. If some fool goes ahead and uses this circuit and gets killed they at least have been warned.

Respectfully, Carroll

[Turion]

Matt is right, I DO have one of the best capacitive battery chargers out there, if not THE best. I have been using it and and testing it for a while now and it is flat awesome for conditioning and restoring batteries. So on THAT score we already know what can be done and it DOES work. It WAS expensive, but that's because the PARTS to make it were expensive and when you use quality materials, you get what you pay for. This was a prototype unit, and it was determined that because the parts were so expensive, it would be a tough sell on the open market, so I don't know if it will EVER be for sale to the general public. Not many folks want to shell out the money for a "battery charger" when they can get a cheap one at K-mart. Because they just don't understand the difference. There is charging, and then there is charging, maintenance and restoration.

But as both Matt and Carroll said, THAT circuit is dangerous, especially for people who are new to electronics, and I wouldn't touch it with a 10 ft pole. If you read the entire thread, everyone who worked with it decided it wasn't OU, and there are other much safer circuits that will charge a battery.

Dave

[Duncan]

Most circuits are “very dangerous” Carroll set up a video and then go and stick your tongue in the wall socket . You'll find out !
I have already posted “one touch lethal” .. however so is a lorry if your crossing a road stupidly ! It doesn't need endlessly repeating by you or anybody else . The dangers have been pointed out by me they are amplified in every publication It really doesn't require your injection endlessly repeating the same thing ! As if Nanny knows best !
I also resent the implication that any builders or indeed George Wiseman who is a very respected researcher in his own right are “fools” because of your opinion . This is an adult forum with plenty of knowledgeable researchers who are quite capable of gauging the hazards and benefits without your constant nanny whining.
As for Matts observation on the benefits of charging by this method I have so far only used it it for 3 cycles and cant really offer a personal opinion on long term effects . (And I'm trained to work at far higher voltages than this so no more of your sissy nonsense for my benefit thank you Carroll)
however the many articles on capacitive “pulse” charging particularly in and around the resonant point of the battery tell a very different story to yours Matt … But please don' t take my word for it
stick it in your own search engine and check yourself … but here's a few to start with

Da Pimp - Capacitive Battery Charger, Tester and Desulfator
http://www.freewebs.com/acselectroni...erypulser.html
Capacitor, Capacitive Battery Charger Circuit. | Miscellaneous Circuits and a link.

there are many more …. each without exception says (unlike Matt) the reaction of the batteries is phenomenal .. indeed in some cases unbelievable! Mary Poppins may think your a fool and Matt may know better than all these people and their reports … you may think I'm a liar but what I would advise you do is..
a/ be aware of the danger and take precautions .. then it isn't a danger
b/ do your own research
c/ go with the accurate results if 100 people say the systems phenomenal and Matt says it isn’t judge for yourself
d/ consider why you are researching this subject .. you may consider the possibility of a 200 volt zap because you have done something bloody silly .. absolutely beyond the pail like Mary. However I would suggest compared to what this little girl considers dangerous and the difference a few old car batteries could possibly make .. puts Carroll's constant and annoying bleating into perspective.



I have already pointed out that a percentage of forums are made up of folks with a different agenda I advise as a matter of course .. research , test , learn and make up your own minds !

[Turion]

Duncan,
Matt isn't saying capacitive battery chargers don't work! GO back and read what he said. In fact, he BUILT the capacitive battery charger I was talking about that is the best I have seen! What he is saying is that the particular circuit is garbage and dangerous. We agree that capacitive battery charging works and works VERY WELL. But there are OTHER safer capacitive battery charging circuits out there, many of which have been patented and are much safer for people new to electronics to work with. That is all Carroll is saying too. You know what you're doing with electronic circuits, but too many people don't, and a word to the wise is never a bad thing.

[Matthew Jones]

Alright Duncan when you get some benefit from one them you let us know.

I worked on mine and experimented for 5 years. I read alot and I understand why people what think what they are seeing is phenomenal from these high chargers, but in the long run you will gain no capacity on your plates and you will burn the very material that form the crystal and sooner rather later that battery will fail.

High voltages on very limited scale will help clean the battery but there are better ways to go about it than to use rectified AC mains to power your contraption.

Getting back to the subject of the 3bgs and the new material that has come to light, I fell like David, all theories should lead somewhere and if they don't then its just info for nothing.

So if anybody has any plans I for one am open to trying them. I few of my own and I am going through them to see can benefit towards our goal. I just don't believe capacitive battery chargers are going to take us that way.

But... PM if you feel you need one and I can give you several circuits will safetly improve your batteries and condition them for longer term.

Cheers
Matt

[Turion]

Test setup

Ok, guys here is something for everyone to test.
1. Connect up the basic 3BGS setup with a load on the motor and a load on battery three. Battery three should be a low voltage "bad" battery. Any battery that is sitting at a low voltage and won't take a charge.
2. Connect two meters to battery three. One meter should be connected pos to pos and neg to neg on battery three. The second meter should be connected pos to neg and neg to pos on battery three. You should get the same reading on both meters, right? Except one reads negative voltage.
3. Now run the setup and try to balance your loads and watch those two meters. At some point, which I believe is the point that battery 3 flips polarity, you suddenly get a BIG difference in the voltage readings on the two meters. When this happens, DISCONNECT the primaries and see how long you can run your load off that bad battery.

4. If you NEVER see that big difference between the two meters, your battery is NOT flipping magnetic polarity and you aren't getting the effect, so you need a different bad battery. I believe this becomes our test...and I can't wait to see what kind of runs folks get off just that dead bad battery.

Not sure if this is gonna work. With battery three isolated it is a perfect way for you to tell that the magnetic polarity has flipped (the difference between the two meters that is), but I don't know if it will work when battery 3 is part of the circuit. Haven't tried it.

Dave

[garrypm]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the test procedure looking to determine an ideal battery.

When you state the "basic" setup, are you implying your setup or Randy's
modified?

Cheers, Garry

[Turion]

garrypm,

I am hoping to get some folks to try it with the basic setup, because I have seen the third battery flip polarity on mine a few times, now that I know what to look for...and we have had a report that when that happens, if you isolate the third battery from the two primaries so that they do not flip it back, you can run loads off the third battery.....for a REALLY LONG TIME. I want to test that today, but running around getting stuff done, and we need several folks to give that a shot and see what they get.

We have also had reported that the same thing happens when you run Randy's setup and flip polarity on the transducers, but how to tell you have DONE that may not be as cut and dried. I haven't had time to figure that out yet. Maybe the two meter test would work the same way, but I don't know. I DO know it works on one isolated battery to tell if the magnetic polarity has flipped.

Dave

[garrypm]

Thanks Dave

[Mario]

Hi Dave,

did you see what polarity battery 3 has when disconnected and running the load? Have you ever put a scope on it?

Since I've burned the high speed motor I had some time ago... what is the best razor motor for this setup, I know it's 24V but there are different wattages? I'll be using 7Ah batts.

Mario

[Turion]

Polarity Reversal

Mario,

I have not put a scope on the reversed 3rd battery or run loads off it while disconnected from the setup. Others have, but not me. I HAVE seen the third battery reverse electrical polarity. I have not yet proven that it can reverse magnetic polarity. I have only been TOLD that it can, and shown that when it does, your volt meter will get one reading when connected pos to pos on the battery and a SIGNIFICANTLY different reading connected pos to neg on the battery. This is the indication that it has reversed magnetic polarity.
Battery weirdness - YouTube

Dave

[garrypm]

Hi Dave,

I have not pulled apart my MY1016 motor yet but, would like to know
if there is any connection at all to the casing.

Have got something weird going on ( 3 times so far) and trying to repeat
it. This would really help me understand what maybe happening if I knew
there were any caps or components wired to the casing.


Cheers, Garry

[Matthew Jones]

Hi Dave,

I have not pulled apart my MY1016 motor yet but, would like to know
if there is any connection at all to the casing.

Have got something weird going on ( 3 times so far) and trying to repeat
it. This would really help me understand what maybe happening if I knew
there were any caps or components wired to the casing.


Cheers, Garry

The MY1016 is just straight permanent magnet motor. 4 magnets are attached to the inside of the case. The brush's are board mounted on the back aluminum piece. The rotor is a straight rotor with 18 slots and 18 windings.
They are real versatile and easy to work on. Thats why we use them so much.

Matt

[garrypm]

Thanks for that Matt.

I did not want to open the motor and risk loosing what has happened three
times. Some motors I have opened have caps to the casing I think to help
reduce arcing.

If I can get this weird thing to happen again, I will report - as long as it is
not one of my silly errors.


Cheers, Garry

[Turion]

Gary,

I agree with Matt. I have had probably 25 of these motors apart at different times, and have never seen anything connected to the casing. So you can be pretty sure that unless something got inside your motor and shorted something out somehow, there isn't anything like that.

Mario,
Any of the 24 volt Razor Scooter motors will work. They have two sets of brushes, which make them perfect for doing "input" and "output" experiments, winding UFO type motors and generally messing about with.

Dave