3 Battery Generating System

[Aaron]

Bedini's chargers/rejuvenators

Aaron,
With John's passing, is anyone manufacturing battery chargers based on his tech. I mean besides "you know who"?

Short answer: Tom & Eric are making some solar charge controllers available and I've been testing some prototypes based on John's circuits that I'm putting into production soon.

Long answer: see below...

Tom & Eric I think have a couple solar charge controllers. Those are straight linear current regulator chargers so are not the best for rejuvenating old batteries but are good for keeping good batteries in good condition.

Soon, I'll be putting a 5 amp 12 volt solar charge controller back into production - actually, John only made one of those for me for to test, but it will be produced instead of the 3 amp 12v one, which was very popular. It is also a linear current regulator circuit.

If you get a constant current constant voltage adjustable dc power supply - you can set it to charge up to 15.1-15.3 for flooded cell batteries - just short the leads and adjust how much current you want it to max out at and when hooking it to a battery, it will for the most part act just the same. Just with the solar charge controllers, they can always receive solar input easily.

I've been testing one of John's prototypes that is more efficient than the older charge controllers (Solar Trackers) - still linear current regulator circuit, but more efficient. He considered it to be the best one he ever designed but never had a chance to put it into production. I'm waiting for some of the components so I can build a few more prototypes for testing. This one will obsolete all linear current chargers that he produced in the past.

Any of these solar circuits can of course be operated with a power supply instead of panels - like the one described above to mimic a solar panel for testing.

For rejuvenation of older batteries, the only charger John came out with that did that with inductive discharges (spikes) was the original Generation 1 - 2A12 - 2 amp 12 volt. It was short lived because the batteries charged or rejuvenated that way long enough didn't like to get charged with normal straight current chargers anymore. All 2A12 models after that went to cap discharge.

The last model (5th generation) 2A12 that was released was the EX or Extreme version, which was the best. It was actually identical to the 3rd generation model. The 4th generation was less aggressive and discharged a cap about half as fast - still excellent but the 5th generation was a reintroduction of the 3rd generation because it was stronger. Magically, after John died, the pic chip source code for that model disappeared. I might just put the 4th generation one back into production - still an excellent unit and nothing else touched it for what it was compared to anything on the market.

I have also been experimenting with some of the old Tesla Switch Solar Amplifier circuits prototypes. I may put those back into production as well and they are also excellent rejuvenators. The charged the caps in parallel and discharged in series.

First one I'll put back into production will be the S5A12 solar charge controller. Second will be either the 2A12 Generation 4 model or the Tesla Switch Solar Amplifier or the linear current one that is the most efficient one that John never put into production. Anyway, the 2nd one to be put in production will be one of those 3 - haven't decided yet.

Other than these future plans, nobody is producing anything worth mentioning in my opinion.

[Turion]

Battery Chargers???

Aaron,
With John's passing, is anyone manufacturing battery chargers based on his tech. I mean besides "you know who"?

[Aaron]

topping charge

chart_lead1.jpg

It's very simple - I agree that chart is accurate, but only shows what happens when a topping charge is not attained. Why limit your possibilities to only that, which has been thoroughly conditioned into the mass mindset? That doesn't apply to what I told you, however. Again, any conventional charger pushing batteries to 13.8-14.8 will have a decline in capacity over time because on each charge cycle, there is still sulfation left on the plates.

That is the entire point to what I was telling you.

Here is the pdf with the chart for anyone to see - there is a lot of good info in there on lead acid charging chemistry: http://freesolarsecrets.com/solarsecrets.pdf

This is the most important chart ever made for lead acid battery science, in my opinion.





You must charge the battery until you get the voltage dip transition from P to R. When you do, you have reversed the chemistry to like-new condition. The dip is a drop in impedance as I said, the final layers of sulfation dissolved into the solution. If you do this on every charge cycle, the battery life cycle is theoretically INFINITE. If you have a solar setup with battery backup, the batteries can outlast the solar panels, which are expected to last 20-25 years, if the batteries were able to get pushed to the topping charge.

That chart is 100 years old - that is how long this has been known but the lead acid battery industry has quietly ignored this because they're in the business of selling batteries.

About 1-2 years ago, I met with a Linear Technology rep and we were talking about batteries. He used to be in the nicad industry and he said that is very well known that if you charge nicads without experiencing the dip, you will wind up damaging the batteries - yet, nobody seems to know this is exactly what lead acid batteries need as well.

If the batteries are AMG or gel cells, then 14.6-14.8 is the limit or you will dry them out - they also display the same voltage drop when they are truly topped out.


John, it would behoove you to understand this because if you failed in achieving results experimenting with the methods Bedini made popular, then you weren't applying all the information. I like John Koorn's rule of thumb if I recall it correctly - with a Bedini type system, 1 watt per 1 Ah is about what you need to do it right. So a single coil SG with 7-8 power windings will be roughly a 20-25 watt machine so is only good for getting a battery that is 20-25 Ah pushed to 15.1-15.3 volts.



I've seen the results go up in a very non-linear fashion. With Bedini's 10-coiler, that would be around a 200 watt machine - however, it could fully charge a 1200 Ah cell phone tower battery bank being run on an identical 1200 Ah battery bank. Each battery in the string was 2 volts 1200 Ah as far as what I can recall. And, when the output bank was charged, Peter discharged that output bank and got 10 times more than what left the input battery. That is a COP of 10.0 - that is some serious "overunity", but most people can't afford those banks. I wouldn't want them because they're a pain to handle. The reason is because of the ultra-low impedance on a bank that big. With the radiant impulses, any resistance dissipates it so with a large battery bank like that, it sucks it up like a vacuum. The round trip efficiency is irrelevant with these methods because what you get out of the battery is related, but is absolutely NOT directly proportional to what went in into the battery. The chemistry converts that radiant into charge separation and the amount of charge separation is clearly INDEPENDENT of the amount of electricity that went into the battery because it is an open system. The coils on the SG are open and the battery is also part of the open system. I don't know if I agree exactly with all the subtle nuances of Bearden's Negative Resistor explanation of the batteries being charged in this method, but the output battery definitely is put into a negative resistor mode.



Every time you have an impulse (sharp gradient), you are polarizing the aether at the coordinates in space where the terminals are, dipole or each bit of chemical charge separation. The aether then polarizes and condenses and moves into the circuit at those points meaning with the impulses, you are causing those points to become locations where environmental source potential enters the system. That polarized aether is the emf (electromotive force), which moves from positive to neutral and that causes electrons from the circuit to start moving in the opposite direction, which is the source of current - the copper wire, not magical charge that people think is stored in the battery.



This is why it is important to use as big of batteries as you can and is why most people have never seen anything unusual with small batteries. Dave here has mentioned big batteries many times and this is one of the main reason why - the lower the impedance, the more the battery chemistry will convert radiant to charge separation. You don't need 1200 Ah batteries.


I use 35Ah AMGs all the time for just testing things out and getting a feel for what I'm doing in my experiments. 100Ah at minimum is more time-worthy if you're looking for something interesting but I like my T-105s the best - those are 6v 225Ah batteries.

[bistander]

I'd like to replicate

Just a quick update.
As I told you, my test now it's using a booster, set on 14,7 volts on the output.
Total time running, so far, is 6 hours, 43 min, and battery 3 seems to be charged faster, BUT, C20 rate are exceeded, because current draw on the input of the booster (which was in the beginning at 2 amps) now is on 2,62 Amp, and it's increasing (differential voltage on the input = 11,47 volts). On the output of the DC booster (going to the inverter), current draw is 1,74 amp.
Not sure what to do, though. I think I am going to let the system to work for 2 more hours, and I am going to measure the current draw before stop it. If it will exceed 4 Amp, I think I am going to shut down my test. I cannot afford to kill a good battery...
Now I am using a 150 watt, like the first image in the attachment, with no current limit.
I have also a bigger one (1200 watt - second image in the attachment) which have an option to limit current... this should be better?
Best regards,
Teodor

Hi Teodor,

Did you get more data? Also, please post or refer to a circuit diagram. I am considering doing the test here.

Thanks,

bi

[Iamnuts]

In the light.

In the light of overwhelming evidence from Aaron I’ll admit defeat on my
take on LA battery performance.
John.

[axxelxavier]

Connect the second boost convertor to battery 3, Bat 3 pos to boost2 in pos, bat 3 neg to boost2 in neg, boost2 out pos to bat 2 pos (top positive of series connected batteries 1 and 2). Slowly adjust the boost2 output to slow down the drain on the series batteries by recirculating current going to bat 3. At one point you can come to a balance where the voltages stay very steady for a long time.

@hherby, thank you for your reply. I've done the modification to my setup, and now I'm watching the numbers...
L.E. Booster 2 is quite hot... I hope it will resist to this treatment... :-)
Best regards,
Teodor

[Turion]

... post truth, facts, evidence and proof.

Simple, right?

bi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA

[hherby]

Just a quick update.
As I told you, my test now it's using a booster, set on 14,7 volts on the output.
Total time running, so far, is 6 hours, 43 min, and battery 3 seems to be charged faster, BUT, C20 rate are exceeded, because current draw on the input of the booster (which was in the beginning at 2 amps) now is on 2,62 Amp, and it's increasing (differential voltage on the input = 11,47 volts). On the output of the DC booster (going to the inverter), current draw is 1,74 amp.
Not sure what to do, though. I think I am going to let the system to work for 2 more hours, and I am going to measure the current draw before stop it. If it will exceed 4 Amp, I think I am going to shut down my test. I cannot afford to kill a good battery...
Now I am using a 150 watt, like the first image in the attachment, with no current limit.
I have also a bigger one (1200 watt - second image in the attachment) which have an option to limit current... this should be better?
Best regards,
Teodor

Connect the second boost convertor to battery 3, Bat 3 pos to boost2 in pos, bat 3 neg to boost2 in neg, boost2 out pos to bat 2 pos (top positive of series connected batteries 1 and 2). Slowly adjust the boost2 output to slow down the drain on the series batteries by recirculating current going to bat 3. At one point you can come to a balance where the voltages stay very steady for a long time.

[Iamnuts]

Graph.

chart_lead1.jpg

[Aaron]

increase in capacity

Sorry Aaron,but you don’t even understand RTE.

John.

I told you a battery can gain in capacity on each charge cycle until it gets to a plateau and you disputed that. My hands on experience proving that true is infinitely more valuable than your claims of failure. You've already disqualified yourself as knowing anything about the nature of batteries, especially if you've never experienced an increase in the batteries capacity with each successive discharge/charge cycle. This is the CONTEXT I am writing about. Saying a battery loses 5% every time it is charged is like saying a gas tank loses 5% every time it gets filled up - perhaps English is not your native language.

Charging a battery with spikes - you're lucky if you can measure 20% leaving the coil on a SG for example, yet what do you get out of the battery? 80-85% at minimum with a decent build or 90-95% with an excellent build - that is compared to what left the input battery and not compared to what is measured leaving the output of the SG. If I compared it to what is measured leaving the SG in spikes, I could claim the round trip efficiency is 400%. You would argue that without ever asking if it is a comparison to what left the input battery of the SG or what left the output of the SG.

"I find it rather sad that quite a few guys are getting egged on to spend
their hard earned,and time, building inefficient,inappropriate systems
and ruining batteries to boot."

Is that your opinion of what has been shared and taught in this discussion thread?

This image shows REAL results that countless people have achieved with charging lead acid batteries - rejuvenating old batteries and having an increase in capacity on each charge cycle - same thing with new batteries to a lesser degree. Putting a 2A12 on a Harbor Freight 35Ah battery for one charge cycle will allow it to discharge about 39Ah on the very next cycle - increase in capacity whether you like it or not.

[Iamnuts]

Sorry.

Sorry Aaron,but you don’t even understand RTE.
John.

[Aaron]

this thread

Looking for proof of claims of free energy and/or over unity made people like you. And in the process to expose falsehoods whether they be honest mistakes or deliberate fraud. I have learned a great deal not only about science but also about human nature. This is an open forum and as long as I don't rub Aaron too much, I am entitled to post reasonable questions and pertinent statements. The method to make me stop is to post truth, facts, evidence and proof.

Simple, right?

bi

I already asked you to leave this thread due to your disruptions. You came back in and Turion continued the conversation with you so feel free to post until you are asked to leave by him.

I have seen you have not done what Turion has recommended. That's up to you, but if you don't replicate exactly without putting your own spin on things, then what do you expect? You don't have to answer - I'm just saying.



You're always free to start your own thread to critique the work here without getting in the way of progress of filling up the thread with a bunch of posts that people have to filter out in order to get to the message.

[Aaron]

RTA irrelevant

Just point me to the empirical and I’ll believe you.
Bedini sparked my interest and I wasted a shed load of time on that.
Nobody I know ever had success with Bedini motors.
I’ve ruined a good few batteries in my time.
It’s all to easy to make a claim but far more difficult to prove it!

Nearly $2 million in R & D went into proving just that showing the charging chart in the "battery bible" is correct. I don't need to prove anything to you. Thousands of customers around the world have benefited over the years with the EnergenX chargers that accomplish this topping charge.

I know people that have not gotten results and most have not paid attention to what has been said - sounds like you fit this category. Has been proven time and time again. There are countless charge and discharge graphs that have been posted for years showing an increase in capacity with each successive charge. This is indisputable. That is with old batteries that have been brought back. With new batteries, you can keep the full capacity almost indefinitely if topped properly.

The topping charge chart from the battery bible is in this free book and has been there for years Free Solar Secrets or you can download the battery bible. Anyone can put a CBA-IV or similar on a battery while charging it up for the charge graph, charge it until you see the voltage dip at the top around 15.1-15.3, then it is done.

Taking the S2A12 and putting it on a brand new battery such as a 100Ah lead acid will instantly push the capacity to about 110Ah on the very first charge. I've done that countless times and so many many others.

Losing 5% on each charge? That's beyond ridiculous - why don't you show a chart of losing 5% on each cycle and show all of us here when a deep cycle drops below 10.5 volts? You can do that in Excel - start with full capacity then reduce by 5%, then from that total reduce by 5% and so on. You will prove one thing - you are spreading nonsense that has no basis in reality because everyone's experience will show that their deep cycles last many more charge cycles than what you are claiming.

What you claim can only apply to those who do not charge their batteries properly by using conventional charges that only go to 13.8 to 14.8 if you're lucky. Too many are conditioned to believe you can charge a battery to those low voltages, then the voltage settles at 12.6 or above and they think that is evidence the battery is charged when it is not. So obviously with those low voltages, there will be sulfation left over, but this forum is full of members who know better who have followed the methods that provide better results for a long time.

With a 35Ah deep cycle, your bogus claim means after the 10th charge cycle, the battery's capacity is only 22Ah. Do you actually expect anyone to believe that? After 10 charge cycles a battery has lost 1/3 of it's capacity? Even with a conventional charger that chronically under charges a battery, you will have way more than 2/3 of the capacity left after 10 charges.

There are 225Ah deep cycle flooded cell lead acids that used to be at EnergenX that are 10-15 years old, which have had hundreds if not thousands of charge/discharge cycles and they are still almost like new. All the plug in and solar charge controllers were tested on the bench before getting shipped. The "load box" would drain the battery(s), then the charger would charge them back up. This was done countless times showing that obviously when giving the true topping charge, it throws out your belief system on the matter, which is irrelevant to those charging their batteries properly. And the forklift? Those batteries were dead and abused when they got that forklift many years ago. We still have that forklift and the batteries are still in excellent shape.

I would challenge you or anyone else who thinks like you to a simple test. Get a CBA-IV or anything that can graph the charging cycle on a laptop. Get a constant voltage constant current adjustable power supply and set it at 15.3 volts, short the output leads and adjust the current to about 2 amps - use a 35Ah deep cycle for example and un-short the leads. Turn power off and wait until the battery is drained. Make sure it is full charged as in like new charge. Drain with 20 hour load until it drops to 10.5 volts. Remove load and hook up the power supply. When you see the voltage get to about 15.1-15.3 volts, you will see a point when the voltage dips. That dip means the impedance of the battery dropped because the final layers of sulfation dissolved back to solution making it more conductive, therefore, there is less back pressure to the voltage so it drops. That is the even you need to look for, which means you reversed the chemistry 100% to like new condition. Repeat that 10 times and tell me if you have lost 5% on each cycle. According to you, on the 10th charge cycle, the battery will only have 22Ah remaining with a 5% loss of the remaining total on each cycle. You will become bored with this test because you will see you get the same capacity out of it every single time. The RTA concept is only necessary to explain the phenomena of losing capacity with crappy charging with crappy chargers but who wants crappy charging methods when batteries cost so much? Not me!

[bistander]

I'll tell you why

If you want proof, build an accurate replication. Then you will have it. I will not provide it. Because what YOU know or don't know is up to YOU and YOUR research. It is not up to me or mine. If you don't want to do that, why hang around here? You cannot seem to answer THAT question.

Looking for proof of claims of free energy and/or over unity made people like you. And in the process to expose falsehoods whether they be honest mistakes or deliberate fraud. I have learned a great deal not only about science but also about human nature. This is an open forum and as long as I don't rub Aaron too much, I am entitled to post reasonable questions and pertinent statements. The method to make me stop is to post truth, facts, evidence and proof.

Simple, right?

bi

[axxelxavier]

Just a quick update.
As I told you, my test now it's using a booster, set on 14,7 volts on the output.
Total time running, so far, is 6 hours, 43 min, and battery 3 seems to be charged faster, BUT, C20 rate are exceeded, because current draw on the input of the booster (which was in the beginning at 2 amps) now is on 2,62 Amp, and it's increasing (differential voltage on the input = 11,47 volts). On the output of the DC booster (going to the inverter), current draw is 1,74 amp.
Not sure what to do, though. I think I am going to let the system to work for 2 more hours, and I am going to measure the current draw before stop it. If it will exceed 4 Amp, I think I am going to shut down my test. I cannot afford to kill a good battery...
Now I am using a 150 watt, like the first image in the attachment, with no current limit.
I have also a bigger one (1200 watt - second image in the attachment) which have an option to limit current... this should be better?
Best regards,
Teodor