3 Battery Generating System

[Sawt2]

As I’m rewinding another motor, I’m curious if anyone has experimented with more windings. Would more wire help or hinder? Just a thought.

[wantomake]

Once

As I’m rewinding another motor, I’m curious if anyone has experimented with more windings. Would more wire help or hinder? Just a thought.

I did try once a thicker awg wire multiple filar. Motor got very hot. But satisfied my unscientific curiosity. If I remember right Matt did try many different windings before finding best one.

But no harm trying it if teaches something.

Just sitting and watching snow/sleet storm with hot coffee. Let us know if you find anything different.

wantomake

[RAMSET]

maybe... just maybe ??

Note
as always i will remove this post in a heartbeat if asked by Matt or Dave
-----------------------------------------

below is for Matt and Dave [and all IMO]

Matts motor ran/runs hot [real hot] ,and has lots of iron


some are starting a Daniel McFarland Cook replication [which will be shared here too in dedicated thread],and trying to source the proper [period correct] iron wire.....Jim Boot shared this link yesterday

Iron Rod - online catalogue source - supplier of research materials in small quantities - Goodfellow

snip from the link
Depending upon the temperature, pure iron can exist in three forms, namely alpha-, gamma- and delta-iron; alpha iron is a polymorphic form of iron which is stable below 906C; it has a body centred cubic lattice (bcc) and is magnetic up to 768C. Gamma iron is a polymorphic form of iron which is stable between 906C and 1403C; it has a face centred cubic lattice (fcc) and is nonmagnetic (n.b. its range of stability is reduced by the presence of carbon, manganese and nickel and it is the basis of the austenite solid solutions). Delta iron is the polymorphic form of iron which is stable between 1403C and the melting point; it has the same lattice structure as alpha iron.
end snip

we also know funny things are happening with heat and other metals [Celani and others work ]

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...h_temperatures
-----------------
to note : Celani work evolving here [and elsewhere]
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...t-plasmas.html
------------------

Could there be a gain mechanism associated with this heat and iron at the Micro level and
the wild conditions manifest in Matts motor ??
Domain flipping or manipulation at low power levels has huge potential....

one thing is certain

there is much to learn and there are some really hot experiments on the open source table ATM


respectfully
Chet K
PS to add comment for bystander below
yes these things are self evident ,however Micro reactions or atomic or ?? and "whatifs" must not be ruled out.
not magic thinking just being thorough based on present ever evolving scientific investigation/understanding.

[bistander]

Matt modded motor

...
Matts motor ran/runs hot [real hot] ,and has lots of iron
...

Hi Chet,

Matt's modified motor has the same iron as the unmodified motor he starts with. That is not a lot of iron IMO. The modification deals strictly with the winding and commutation. I suspect the excess heat comes from copper loss, not iron. This is measured by I squared R. But I, or current, needs to be an RMS value, not average.

The temperatures you mention are above the Curie point of ceramic magnets and well in excess of the what the winding insulation can tolerate.

Regards,

bi

[wantomake]

Says it all.

bi,

I think you're being rejected and booted off because you insist that you know better yet you have only tried once.

what are your intentions anyway?. are you here to look at this closely or discredit this?. or just killing time?

what exactly are you trying to point?.
maybe I can answer in a way that can satisfy you.

I think this post says it all.

wantomake
PS: ignore list

[Turion]

Progress

I wish I could update you guys on what is going on and where this journey has taken us, but unfortunately I cannot. Some day you will realize that the answers you have all been searching for were in the two major threads we have started here, and that the basic information is all here and was just ignored. You have no idea how many times i have just shaken my head and said "If they only KNEW!" We have some things we intend to do before we show anything more on this thread than we already have, but maybe I can find the time to shoot some video to prove what we have disclosed so far.

I did find an already rewound rotor for a Matt motor, so if I get a little free time over the holiday to put one together, I will try to do that. Then I can run the Matt motor off a fully charged battery, turning a stock motor as a generator and running a light as a load off the generator. I can measure how many watts the generator was able to put out to the light before the battery runs down using a traditional circuit.

Then I can run the Matt motor with our circuit on that same battery, with the boost module in place, and show how many watts went from the generator to the light bulb before the battery runs down. That should be a fair test, and easy to do. It is also far less time consuming that running a three battery baseline and comparing that to running three batteries with our circuit.

Anyway, that's the plan. I have to balance the thing before I put it together, and I have to find the rest of the parts for it, but I have lots of razor scooter motors around here that are in pieces, so that shouldn't take much time. I just need a couple square feet of bench space and right now that's the hardest thing to come by.

I'm still months away from having any real free time, but it may be possible to squeeze in a few things. If I get the shelves built I am hoping to get built this weekend, I will have room to get enough stuff off the floor that maybe I can get one of my generators on a cart over here and start winding coils to get it put back together. I have all the wire, but winding 10 new coils just takes a lot of time, and the ones I have are slag from overheating. So it will take me a while.

[bistander]

Cool

....
Then I can run the Matt motor with our circuit on that same battery, with the boost module in place, ...

A humble request, if you don't mind. Please take a scope screenshot of the battery current with and without the boost converter. Thanks in advance.

Regards,

bi

[wantomake]

Forward

Turion,
Hope is alive with prayer and expectations of good news from you. Yes prayer and hope. I'm happy to just have seen with my own eyes and hands the proof of this concept. Nothing said here can take that from me.

You get done and forget about sending any parts to me. Finish all you've started. Home, shop, project. These are so much more important, which stands without saying.

Take care and will always cherish the 3BGS memories.

wantomake

[Turion]

??

Wantomake,
From what you said, it appears you need the whole coil holding apparatus. You said the 3/4 plywood you used warped. I would bet you did not use the PC couplers epoxied in place. If you do that, and put spacers between the plywood, it won't warp. I know this for a fact, because that is the very first build I did to prototype my current build using acrylic plastic. Mine was all glued together, and it was as solid as a rock. I only went to the plastic for the looks, and because I wanted something a machinist could produce. I don't have that original anymore, because I just didn't have the room for all these different versions of the same thing when the new one is better. Well, maybe not BETTER, but way cooler looking at least.

[wantomake]

True assessment

Wantomake,
From what you said, it appears you need the whole coil holding apparatus. You said the 3/4 plywood you used warped. I would bet you did not use the PC couplers epoxied in place. If you do that, and put spacers between the plywood, it won't warp. I know this for a fact, because that is the very first build I did to prototype my current build using acrylic plastic. Mine was all glued together, and it was as solid as a rock. I only went to the plastic for the looks, and because I wanted something a machinist could produce. I don't have that original anymore, because I just didn't have the room for all these different versions of the same thing when the new one is better.

Yes and mostly the two end brackets holding the bearings in place warped worst.

I was in process of changing the two end pieces from wood to aluminum when stopped working on the project.

Still have all the spacers and parts. Maybe one day will put it all back together again.

Thanks for the tip,
wantomake

[Turion]

Parts

Wantomake,

I was over at the old house today getting some things I needed out of my shop, and I noticed a set of bearing blocks lying on the counter. These are "L shaped pieces of solid steel with holes drilled in them for mounting to the bench with screws, and a large hole drilled with the bearing pressed in. I'm not at all sure if the bearings are the correct size and I didn't have time to check today, but if you are interested, I will run over there tomorrow or Monday and check to see if the bearings are the correct size for the shaft that fits the rotor I sent you. That would end your problem with the bearing holder warping, because these definitely won't warp and can be screwed down. The only problem MAY be the hight of the bearing above the bench. They are from an older build, so the hight might not be correct, and you might have to put a spacer under either them or the coil holder to get them to line up at dead center. Anyway, just a thought if you are still thinking about building the generator. You will STILL need more than just one coil to see any positive results, but you would be able to see speed up under load and magnetic neutralization no matter HOW many coils you have.

I quit using these because of the pressed in bearings, and went to a flange bearing that cannot be pulled OUT of the mount because of the flange by continued vibration over time. With powerful neo magnets pulling the rotor toward the stator, pressure is applied to pull the bearing OUT of the mount, and I didn't like the thought of that. It was a safety issue for me. With all the things I have had go WRONG, eliminating every possibility for a problem was something I worked on as I modified my original design time and time again. I NEVER had a pressed in bearing pull out, but I also never had a rotor explode..... until one did. So it's not like I would be giving you something that is defective, and you could certainly replace the bearings with flange bearings or tapered bearings that cannot pull through. It is really JUST the bearing holders I am offering, although the bearings are in them. Just to be clear. I want NO liability if the bearings come out! I have enough stuff to deal with already.

Dave

[wantomake]

Re-designing

Wantomake,

I was over at the old house today getting some things I needed out of my shop, and I noticed a set of bearing blocks lying on the counter. These are "L shaped pieces of solid steel with holes drilled in them for mounting to the bench with screws, and a large hole drilled with the bearing pressed in. I'm not at all sure if the bearings are the correct size and I didn't have time to check today, but if you are interested, I will run over there tomorrow or Monday and check to see if the bearings are the correct size for the shaft that fits the rotor I sent you. That would end your problem with the bearing holder warping, because these definitely won't warp and can be screwed down. The only problem MAY be the hight of the bearing above the bench. They are from an older build, so the hight might not be correct, and you might have to put a spacer under either them or the coil holder to get them to line up at dead center. Anyway, just a thought if you are still thinking about building the generator. You will STILL need more than just one coil to see any positive results, but you would be able to see speed up under load and magnetic neutralization no matter HOW many coils you have.

I quit using these because of the pressed in bearings, and went to a flange bearing that cannot be pulled OUT of the mount because of the flange by continued vibration over time. With powerful neo magnets pulling the rotor toward the stator, pressure is applied to pull the bearing OUT of the mount, and I didn't like the thought of that. It was a safety issue for me. With all the things I have had go WRONG, eliminating every possibility for a problem was something I worked on as I modified my original design time and time again. I NEVER had a pressed in bearing pull out, but I also never had a rotor explode..... until one did. So it's not like I would be giving you something that is defective, and you could certainly replace the bearings with flange bearings or tapered bearings that cannot pull through. It is really JUST the bearing holders I am offering, although the bearings are in them. Just to be clear. I want NO liability if the bearings come out! I have enough stuff to deal with already.

Dave

Thanks for the offer but not sure as you said if the height of the bearings will match that of my coil holders.

I've been looking at your design and my build and they are different. I'm planning to recut a new set of holders(4) to match your design. The ones I cut don't match good because each is a little different in size.

Yes I do plan on more coils also. This was my first proof of concept. Hope to get to it soon.

Thanks again,
wantomake

[wantomake]

Holiday Season and generators

Good rainy morning to All,
Coffee, rain and holiday shopping. My daughter asked what I wanted for Christmas. So we finally settled on a spool of mag wire to rewire the larger size my1060 scooter motor as a generator. Good gift I think.

After the holidays wind down I'll be hopefully redesigning and testing like Turion posted.

Time to nuke the coffee or head to breakfast with the wife.
Yes breakfast and good company.

If I keep this thread alive it's because this project is worth the effort.
wantomake

[axxelxavier]

If I keep this thread alive it's because this project is worth the effort.
wantomake

I agree!
Finally, I have some time for my project, so I will post some updates.
I decided to give a try to 3BGS automatic switch project, though I am aware it will be a long and difficult process. My previous system was with 2 batteries and a boost converter, but after some tests in 3BGS configuration, the results was very encouraging.
First step was to create a semiautomatic system for switching the batteries, using for the beginning 4 push-buttons, which will command Arduino to switch 8 relays (12 volt each, actually 3 relays at the time). I am using now just 3 x 5 Amp batteries, and a fourth battery for Arduino and relays.
Well, this is my first result, as you can see also in the video.
https://youtu.be/9iEPh9Jon1w
The system is working, BUT, in one configuration (Battery 2+Battery 3 charging Battery 1) the polarity of the load is changing, so the + pole become „-”.
The only way I find to solve this is to add another 2, maybe 3 relays, which will increase the current draw to 150 - 180 mA... For bigger setups, up to 60 Amp batteries, I think is worthing this current draw. Later, when the system is set, I can use latching relays, and the current draw will be very low. The total current draw, now, at the arduino + 3 relays ON is between 120 mA (at 12 volts) and 100 mA (at 10 volts).
Unfortunately, because of the common ground issue, I cannot use n-mosfets on lower side, nor p-mosfets for high side, and i don't know other way to switch the batteries with a galvanic isolation.
Any suggestion? Is there other way to reverse polarity using discrete components?
Second step is to find a way to isolate the voltage divider resistor readings for sending to Arduino - I cannot use a common ground for those dividers, because of the different configuration of batteries connections.
I was thinking to use optocouplers... what do you think?

Best regards

[wantomake]

Axxel,
Sorry our local ip is down since yesterday. Only my iPhone has connection to internet.
Your setup looks promising but I’ve not used Arduino much yet to switch the system. I did start learning how to program Arduino see the benefit of using such. Dave said the single battery circuit is also very good to work with. That’s if you have motor and generator setup included in the circuit.

Hoping good results for you and Happy holidays,
wantomake